Future Ex-Pats - Still planning to move to Thailand?

[Dnyy]

3 hours ago, jerojero said:

Cost of living is much less in Thailand than most Western countries, especially housing.

That's only true if you buy the cheapest stuff available. If you buy comparable groceries of similar quality, it is cheaper in western countries. Sure you can live cheaper here but only if live like a low income local.

 

Edit: I am talking about Bangkok and not some middle-of-nowhere rural areas.

Edited May 15, 2019 by Dnyy

[BritManToo]

1 hour ago, Thaidream said:

-The costs of any product imported are rising constantly.  Imported medicines; foods; wines;  health products cost 3-5 times what they do in America/ 

So buy the local medicines .........

Finesteride 5mg costs 800bht for 30 tabs in my local Thai pharmacy (Firide 5mg), seems to sell for $40 in the USA. So $15 cheaper here. Aspirin 81mg, 30bht for 60 tabs (Aspent-M), also cheaper than the USA. 

Iherb charge $4 to ship to Thailand (no importduty on under $45), so effectively same price as anywhere else in the world (use my discount code if you join ($10) or order (5%-10%), gets us both a discount AOX3347).

 

Wine is expensive, learn to drink another type of alcohol.

Edited May 15, 2019 by BritManToo

[Neeranam]

3 hours ago, bkk6060 said:

Time with a lady cannot even compare so much better in Thailand. 

???? I've heard it called everything now!

 

[Tagged]

@totally thaied up

 

I would say the opposite, that Thailand have become better by the years, and easier til live a normal life!

 

I guess we all have our different faded glasses on, but thats my feeling. 

[Thaidream]

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

o buy the local medicines .........

Finesteride 5mg costs 800bht for 30 tabs in my local Thai pharmacy (Firide 5mg), seems to sell for $40 in the USA. So $15 cheaper here. Aspirin 81mg, 30bht for 60 tabs (Aspent-M), also cheaper than the USA. 

Iherb charge $4 to ship to Thailand (no importduty on under $45), so effectively same price as anywhere else in the world (use my discount code if you join ($10) or order (5%-10%), gets us both a discount AOX3347).

I am well aware of local medicines-that made  etc and the Thai Government Pharmaceutical company.  My reference to expensive imported medicines  was such things as Chemotherapy or specialized meds not made in Thailand.

 

As you know Thailand slaps on an excise tax to everything and imported medicines are not exempt.

 

I can live without wine but such things as shaving cream and other  skin care products are all foreign sourced and about 5 times higher than in the US. Again- excise tax.

 

While I can afford these things- I do not like the way Thailand operates as far as a lack of reciprocity in all areas of life here.  Double Pricing- no permanent residence unless on has a tax history in Thailand. Marriage extensions for 1 year when USA/EU have provisions for  residency due to marriage.  

 

I would also add once a Thai spouse obtains entry to the USA  as the spouse of a citizen she is eligible for all social services including social security and all medical assistance.

 

The simple fact is that Thailand provides nothing to long term expats except the right to exist for a year except if one wants to spend 500K for an Elite Visa which again provides little to the holder.

[the guest]

3 hours ago, Thaidream said:

First came in 1971 and loved it and always planned to retire in Thailand.  I still love the Thai people but there are now so many negatives involved in settling in Thailand- 

It's not just the Immigration issues although they are a nuisance nor the possibility of medical insurance which is way overpriced for the coverage. 

 

What bothers me the most are=

 

-The costs of any product imported are rising constantly.  Imported medicines; foods; wines;  health products cost 3-5 times what they do in America/  

 

-Pollution- bad and getting worse year by year without any type of controls. The beaches are dirty; the water is filthy and no controls are enforced.

 

-Lack of Justice- the police do not do their jobs ; the judicial system is limited; and money controls the whole system.

 

-Income Inequality- There is a rising undercurrent in the population based upon a lack of income; education and opportunity fueled by alcohol and drugs. When there is no hope- youth acts out in ways that destroy civil society

 

-Lack of Any Moral Compass- Double Pricing; Scams;  Massive Corruption; Decaying religion

 

-Driving- completely out of control- chaotic and  will take generations to cure but there is no start to a program

 

-Education- my Thai Step Daughter is in a first rate Thai university but her future is limited- due to a real lack of opportunity and upward mobility except for the connected.

 

It's not one thing that is a deal breaker. It is the combination of things that make Thailand a society that is going backward while other countries are moving forward.

 

Like the OP- I worked  mostly outside Thailand- in Asia- and visited my Thai wife and family regularly and while I speak passable Thai- I never really focused on the negatives.  However, since full retirement in Thailand and having alot of time on my hands I have become fully aware of the negatives and any lack of commitment from the Government to do anything to really help the country.

When you add in the Immigration changes; possible  Insurance requirement and the decline of Western currencies, Thailand doesn't look as good as it once did.

 

If I was single  I would not stay in Thailand full time- I would  go to the Philippines and Japan.

 

However, people like myself have many assets in Thailand- House and Condo; cars; children in school and an extended Thai family so  making a move is not feasible.  

 

At this juncture- if one is not fully invested in Thailand with assets etc and you s still have a choice- I would think long and hard whether  what you want in life is available in Thailand long term.

Think about what Thailand will be 5. 10, 15, 20 years from now and what you want in life.

 

 

 

 

 

I agree with this post, and it makes sense to evaluate your options both now, and in the future.

 

Thailand of course can be a challenge, and there are always positive and negative sides moving to any country, so I would recommend dipping your toe into the water to check the temperature first, rather that fully immersing everything. 

[BritManToo]

41 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

can live without wine but such things as shaving cream and other  skin care products are all foreign sourced and about 5 times higher than in the US. Again- excise tax.

I make my own soap, shaving cream and aftershave lotion.

Couldn't find what I wanted in Thailand, investigated 'how to', then purchased the chemicals.

(Lye, steric acid & Bentonite from Union Science CM, and I use 50/50 coconut/palm oil from YoK, witch hazel from iherb, and aloe vera gel from Lazada)

Not too expensive and much better quality than the manufactured products.

 

Agree with the rest of your post.

Edited May 15, 2019 by BritManToo

[totally thaied up]

1 hour ago, Tagged said:

@totally thaied up

 

I would say the opposite, that Thailand have become better by the years, and easier til live a normal life!

 

I guess we all have our different faded glasses on, but thats my feeling. 

Yes, my views have changed. I spend about 100K a year on medical and currently in Australia it is free. I spend another 56K a year on insurance. My pharmacist loves me in Thailand as I spend a lot there. That 156K is more then twice what I would spend on rates and house insurance at home. The older I get, the numbers don’t add up.

 

Add to the fact unlike my wife, I have no avenue for PR. In two years, my wife can have PR in Australia, Medicare and be able to claim for benefits until work is gained. Big, big difference. She has rights and I have no rights but to be just a farang.

 

No, I will return to Thailand but I am under no illusions now it is cheaper or better. We all are very different. A friend of mine just came back from Vietnam today and was robbed in a staged motorcycle accident. Every country has its problems but being aware of these things from reading forums and trying to glean a bit of useful information is what it is all about. My experience is different from everyone elses.

[baansgr]

The Thailand now isn't that of 12 years ago....beggers belief why anyone would retire here anymore. Food is cheap cooking at home but just about everything else is more expensive than most of Europe....I have to stay because of commitments and make the most of it but I certainly wouldnt choose Thailand if I was just about to retire.

[jaiyen]

6 hours ago, bkk6060 said:

And your home country will go up the same.

It is ridiculous for people to say how expensive Thailand is now they do not understand economics.

Inflation should be a big part of your financial portfolio planning.

But most here have no idea what I am referring too....

 

The Australian Dollar has dropped below 22, when a few years ago it was 32.  That alone has devalued me by over $250,000.  There are many items that are more expensive than in Perth.  I have decided to stay here. Will just go to Thailand to visit family. Forget all the touring and renting cars, costs a fortune now.

[wwest5829]

7 hours ago, Don Mega said:

Baffles me why anyone would consider leaving their home country to live abroad and not consider health insurance so cannot see why this potential new rule/law would change anyones plans.

Well, Don, reality strikes. I retired at age 64 1/2 on a Non-Immigrant O-A Visa received through the Royal Thai Consulate in Chicago. When I first came, I took out a health insurance policy but, as I was honest, the company excluded anything dealing with the heart/circulation. Upon renewal, they raised the premium as I was entering a new age group. With the cost going up and with the excluding of my biggest risk, I canceled the policy. I had a heart attack in Dec. 2015 and went to RAM for a stent and 2 angioplasties (result of scar tissue buildup from the earlier by-passes). Bill was 411,000 baht. I have a Medigap policy that will pay $5K annually for overseas care. So insurance paid $5K and I paid $6K. Done and dusted. I hope you understand better why some of us are in a position to self insure with the knowledge that, if we can get on a plane, many have some national healthcare (in my case Medicare). Oh, I do carry an Accident policy in Thailand. I am a resident of Thailand, if I travel I get Travel coverage.

[wwest5829]

If friends asked about coming to Chiang Mai with the recent hazardous pollution levels, I recommended waiting until the smoke (literally) cleared. With the implementation of new Immigration requirements, including the current discussion oh medical insurance ... my advice would be the same.

[Guderian]

I've been here 15 years and I think it was the right move at the time, Thailand was a pretty easy-going and relaxed place back then. Gradually, though, it's become more and more hidebound as they unearth old, never-enforced rules and laws and invent new ones. I don't like the West because it has too many silly rules, but Thailand seems to be trying to beat it at its own game these days.

 

To be honest, I'd move tomorrow if I could, I don't find this country anything like as much fun as it was a decade or two ago, but I'm too heavily invested in Thailand for it to be easy to move.

 

I'd give one piece of advice to people who haven't yet made the move: only consider countries that have a formal retirement programme, like Malaysia or the Philippines, for example, if you must end up in SEA. Trying to live long-term in a place that doesn't, like Thailand, leaves you wide open to all sorts of gerrymandering and abuse by the authorities, as we have seen in the last year. You're effectively living under a set of rules that were never designed for the purpose and that can be twisted and bent as the powers-that-be want.

[GinBoy2]

7 hours ago, jacko45k said:

And since medical insurance is not yet mandated to obtain an Extension it is a moot point. 

....yet!

[theonetrueaussie]

I am young mid 30s so still a fair way from retiring but it baffles me why anyone would consider retiring in Thailand. The rules are constantly changing, Thailand will NEVER be your home you are never considered a resident as seen by the need to check in every 90 days and notify them whenever you go anywhere else(supposed to anyways). As a foreigner you have very limited rights here compared with the locals. By all means stay for a while and enjoy the fun as an older guy but you know how it works here so why would you trust the rest of your future here let alone invest it all here. I have seen so many people lose everything here and Thailand is no longer the place it was 5 years ago let alone 10-15 yrs ago. With so many better alternatives out there why would you risk it all here?

[GinBoy2]

2 hours ago, Thaidream said:

I am well aware of local medicines-that made  etc and the Thai Government Pharmaceutical company.  My reference to expensive imported medicines  was such things as Chemotherapy or specialized meds not made in Thailand.

 

As you know Thailand slaps on an excise tax to everything and imported medicines are not exempt.

 

I can live without wine but such things as shaving cream and other  skin care products are all foreign sourced and about 5 times higher than in the US. Again- excise tax.

 

While I can afford these things- I do not like the way Thailand operates as far as a lack of reciprocity in all areas of life here.  Double Pricing- no permanent residence unless on has a tax history in Thailand. Marriage extensions for 1 year when USA/EU have provisions for  residency due to marriage.  

 

I would also add once a Thai spouse obtains entry to the USA  as the spouse of a citizen she is eligible for all social services including social security and all medical assistance.

 

The simple fact is that Thailand provides nothing to long term expats except the right to exist for a year except if one wants to spend 500K for an Elite Visa which again provides little to the holder.

Well many retirees fail to recognize the fundamental truth of the difference between when you take a spouse to living in farangland and to their status in Thailand.

 

When your spouse emigrates to AUS/US/EU/UK, you jump through the hoops, but she's (maybe he too) a permanent resident when she enters mythical magical farangland,, with pretty much all the same rights, protections as a citizen, they just can't vote.

 

As a farang spouse living in Thailand, you are nothing more than a long stay tourist, with all the baggage, and lack of protections that goes with that status.

 

A lot of guys fail to comprehend that fundamental difference, or at least pull the wool firmly over their eyes to ignore it

[Destiny1990]

Thailand still  an affordable place but nowadays there are for me easier and far less complicated longterm  visa options available elsewhere Vietnam Spain Phillipines etc.

I will still visit Thailand but for holidays only no-more for an retirement.

 

Edited May 15, 2019 by Destiny1990

[chainarong]

The only thing that needs to be remembered,  whatever you do , nothing remains the same, you will have no recourse in any changes wherever you may go , never completely cut ties with your country of origin.

[ICELANDMAN]

1 hour ago, Guderian said:

I've been here 15 years and I think it was the right move at the time, Thailand was a pretty easy-going and relaxed place back then. Gradually, though, it's become more and more hidebound as they unearth old, never-enforced rules and laws and invent new ones. I don't like the West because it has too many silly rules, but Thailand seems to be trying to beat it at its own game these days.

 

To be honest, I'd move tomorrow if I could, I don't find this country anything like as much fun as it was a decade or two ago, but I'm too heavily invested in Thailand for it to be easy to move.

 

I'd give one piece of advice to people who haven't yet made the move: only consider countries that have a formal retirement programme, like Malaysia or the Philippines, for example, if you must end up in SEA. Trying to live long-term in a place that doesn't, like Thailand, leaves you wide open to all sorts of gerrymandering and abuse by the authorities, as we have seen in the last year. You're effectively living under a set of rules that were never designed for the purpose and that can be twisted and bent as the powers-that-be want. 

Noting is easy for change country with big investment but not impossible.... 

[Don Mega]

1 hour ago, wwest5829 said:

Well, Don, reality strikes. I retired at age 64 1/2 on a Non-Immigrant O-A Visa received through the Royal Thai Consulate in Chicago. When I first came, I took out a health insurance policy but, as I was honest, the company excluded anything dealing with the heart/circulation. Upon renewal, they raised the premium as I was entering a new age group. With the cost going up and with the excluding of my biggest risk, I canceled the policy. I had a heart attack in Dec. 2015 and went to RAM for a stent and 2 angioplasties (result of scar tissue buildup from the earlier by-passes). Bill was 411,000 baht. I have a Medigap policy that will pay $5K annually for overseas care. So insurance paid $5K and I paid $6K. Done and dusted. I hope you understand better why some of us are in a position to self insure with the knowledge that, if we can get on a plane, many have some national healthcare (in my case Medicare). Oh, I do carry an Accident policy in Thailand. I am a resident of Thailand, if I travel I get Travel coverage.

Yeah you self insure.... not really the target of my post.

[Destiny1990]

8 hours ago, bkk6060 said:

Yes.

 

I guess it all depends where you come from and the monies you have.

I have a great retirement from California.

My rent for example in Pattaya is 330 US a month with an ocean view compared to 2,200 US + in California.

 

As a golfer it is also much cheaper (1/2 to 1/3) in Thailand.

 

Food is also much less.

 

Time with a lady cannot even compare so much better in Thailand. 

 

None of these Thai Visa rules bother me the rest of it more then makes up for any inconvenience.

 

 

 

Most others here unlike you are indeed concerned with frequently  more complicated retirement rules presented for us. Sure Thailand is affordable compared with your home country but i doubt retirees fed up here will go back to their home country they just relocate to nearby elsewhere. Pattaya doesn’t even offer much variation golf-wise but i guess the bar girls variety makes up for that.

[BritManToo]

1 hour ago, GinBoy2 said:

When your spouse emigrates to AUS/US/EU/UK, you jump through the hoops, but she's (maybe he too) a permanent resident when she enters mythical magical farangland,, with pretty much all the same rights, protections as a citizen, they just can't vote.

I view see it differently, women are generally protected by governments, men generally aren't.

Women married to Thai men have absolutely no problem getting Thai citizenship. Men aren't wanted anywhere in the world these days. Every tribe/nation in the world wants more women, very few want more men.

So you aren't comparing like with like,

Your spouse will almost always be female, Australia will protect her.

You are a man, Thailand doesn't want you here.

 

Same game with welfare, it's designed to benefit women, it's not really for men.

Edited May 15, 2019 by BritManToo

[Destiny1990]

Just now, BritManToo said:

I view see it differently.

Women are protected by governments, men aren't.

Women married to Thai men have absolutely no problem getting Thai citizenship. Men aren't wanted anywhere in the world these days.

Thai man marries a native lady from my country get the exact same full rights and benefits same as a thai lady marries a native guy from my country.

[onera1961]

Does India have a retirement program? How about Sri Lanka? Arthur C Clarke lived there.

Sent from my JKM-LX2 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[White Christmas13]

9 hours ago, jerojero said:

Cost of living is much less in Thailand than most Western countries, especially housing.

and if you don't have an income from overseas how do you live then?

[MiNombreEsFicticious]

6 hours ago, somtumwrong said:

+1 He misses the point on inflation vs currency fluctuation. Two different things, 

I think the point he was making is that, considering the currency change, things in Thailand seem relatively more expensive than years earlier. It may not be inflation, but it kinda feels like inflation to the person who gets a lot less baht that he used to for the same amount of foreign currency. 

[SEtonal]

15 minutes ago, onera1961 said:

Does India have a retirement program? How about Sri Lanka? Arthur C Clarke lived there.

Sent from my JKM-LX2 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

Sri Lanka has the "My Dream Home" program.  55 years of age, $15k USD fixed deposit in Sri Lankan bank, $1500 USD pension/monthly income for main applicant and $750 USD/month for each dependent.   Sri Lankan savings accounts for senior citizens pay 12% to 14% a year. 

 

https://www.immigrationlanka.com/Info-2-7.html

[White Christmas13]

3 hours ago, jaiyen said:

The Australian Dollar has dropped below 22, when a few years ago it was 32.  That alone has devalued me by over $250,000.  There are many items that are more expensive than in Perth.  I have decided to stay here. Will just go to Thailand to visit family. Forget all the touring and renting cars, costs a fortune now.

dropped below 22? I just had a quote today it was 19.1

[marcusarelus]

23 minutes ago, SEtonal said:

Sri Lanka has the "My Dream Home" program.  55 years of age, $15k USD fixed deposit in Sri Lankan bank, $1500 USD pension/monthly income for main applicant and $750 USD/month for each dependent.   Sri Lankan savings accounts for senior citizens pay 12% to 14% a year. 

 

https://www.immigrationlanka.com/Info-2-7.html

Better, if you don't read the news or go to church much. 

Edited May 15, 2019 by marcusarelus

[Lacessit]

10 hours ago, Don Mega said:

Baffles me why anyone would consider leaving their home country to live abroad and not consider health insurance so cannot see why this potential new rule/law would change anyones plans.

Many people leave their home country to live abroad for various reasons. It changes quite a few plans if the Thai Government mandates health insurance which can only be purchased through Thai companies at ruinous prices, and cannot be obtained by anyone over 70 with pre-existing conditions. Still baffled?