Future Ex-Pats - Still planning to move to Thailand?

[BritManToo]

8 minutes ago, totally thaied up said:

I know lots of people like this, living pension cheque to pension cheque and they live on the wing of a prayer hoping they never get sick. We are all doing to die one day but I don't want to go out like that.

I live like this, I have got sick, the government hospital is very reasonably priced.

One day I will die, but not today!

[5633572526]

On 5/15/2019 at 7:54 AM, BritManToo said:

Because in most countries there is no 'health insurance'.

In quite a lot of the world people don't use insurance of any kind.

Americans don't really understand (or consider other peoples POV) so it's fairly understandable you're baffled.

Not slamming you, just pointing out you have a cultural blind spot about insurance.

It’s not a cultural blind spot it’s a painful reality. I am jealous of all of you who live in countries where the government is responsible enough to provide health care for its people. I have health insurance here for a fraction of what it costs in the USA and better coverage. Also in my opinion better quality of health care here.

[BritManToo]

9 minutes ago, oceanbreeze851 said:

I have Tricare-For-Life and I think it will satisfy the insurance problem.

And I think it won't as they aren't really interested in the validity of your insurance.

This is about taxing western foreigners, skimming via Thai based insurance companies, and they don't make money from your 'tricare'.

 

[ubonjoe]

19 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

And I think it won't as they aren't really interested in the validity of your insurance.

This is about taxing western foreigners, skimming via Thai based insurance companies, and they don't make money from your 'tricare'.

 

Not correct.

They have stated that insurance from your home country will be accepted it it meets the requirements.

[Rod the Sod]

On 5/15/2019 at 9:33 AM, Mike Teavee said:

It's not the Health Insurance per se, it's the constant changes to the rules & the feeling that Thailand isn't as welcoming to Expat Retirees as it once was whereas other places (e.g. Vietnam) are becoming more welcoming.

 

 

You know what, all this stuff about Thailand not being as "welcoming" is total BS and a red herring. If you want to try and get around all the R & R, yes, it is unwelcoming. If you have your papers in order, treat people the same way you want to be treated yourself, stay out of trouble (or at least don't look for it), then it is a great place to be. It says more about the kind of people that post here, than it does about Thailand and the people IMHO.

[freedomnow]

if I don't get married to my g/f it would be :-

Vietnam as my base...Thailand costs of living pre-2000...only downsides are much higher theft rates/hawkers/ 2-tier pricing even in restaurants and "BJ touts" (and I don't mean Big Joke) on scooters hasssling single guys walking. If you like beer, Vietnam is so damn cheap and Thailand is so damn dear for decent beer.

 

Thailand currency is only going to climb and climb with the forecasted currency demand from Chinese tourists..and that money that will lift the economy. Brit retirees without a supplementary income are going to be in such a pickle 10 years down the road I think, due to the way the pound is going and baht strengthening.

Chiang Mai seems to one of the last bigger cities with good amenity (except if you are into the spicy pay-to-play chix scene) that is still priced well for food/drink/accommodation...though it has a steady growth of trendy crap places..'boutique this and boutique that, artisan this, artisan that' with trendy pricing.

 

 

Edited May 16, 2019 by freedomnow

[Hanuman2547]

Originally I was thinking of being in Thailand 8-9 months out of the year.  I already have a house and condo that are paid for in Thailand.  My ideas of what I want to do in retirement have changed a bit and now I'm probably going to stay in my home country about 8 months a year with the rest travelling and maybe 3 months a year in Thailand.  The new "issues" that have come up about mandatory insurance and the amount of money in the bank haven't really been much of a problem.  The air quality has really been a bigger problem for me.  Just don't think it is that healthy living in Thailand anymore like it was when I first arrived for work back in the 80's.

[fletchsmile]

4 hours ago, GinBoy2 said:

Maybe I'm outta whack here.

 

But unless you live in Bangkok, or CM, the Government hospitals are little more that warehousing you until you die.

Private Hospitals are the only places you are likely to get decent health care, and in that case, for anything serious you better hope you have an insurance policy int ฿5M range, because the cost racks up fast.

 

To put this in perspective.

I was working in Singapore, my wife called me on Monday saying she had stomach pain. She went to the local hospital, and as is par for the course, without even laying a finger on her I might add, doled out the usual baggie of pills, Monday through Friday.

Friday morning as I'm about to get on a plane, she calls me in tears, can't even stand up she's in so much pain. I tell her to get to Khon Kaen Ram as fast as she can.

By the time I get home she in surgery having a ton of pus removed from her belly from a ruptured fallopian cyst!

The quacks in the local hospital would basically let her die from their ineptitude and incompetence

 

So take your chances with the local Nakhorn Backofbeyond Government Hospital with that bare bones insurance policy, but pray to God you never have to use it

Just out of interest, how much was it for the treatment?

 

As you say, if I bought insurance for me, I would likely want THB 5m up at least, and a decent policy. 

 

Buying cover for 400k for me is a waste of money. I'd rather just pay cash. 40K OPD with limits of say 2k a visit is really not worth me paying for insurance.

[fletchsmile]

3 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

Not correct.

They have stated that insurance from your home country will be accepted it it meets the requirements.

Do you have a link to that? rather than just a link to an article in a newspaper or similar or quotes. I've seen "might", quotes etc but nothing concrete.

 

Reason I ask is I see a risk for people deciding to buy insurance for this purpose. Then later finding out that what they bought doesn't qualify.

 

It could be a minefield for immigration to check. So a possibility is simply having an approved list of providers, or adding further criteria etc etc. Nothing definite yet as I've seen.

 

All sorts of things to go wrong with the assumption an overseas policy or even a local policy will just qualify because it shows the headline numbers of 400k IPD and 40K OPD:

- eg cant see them accepting a policy written in French

- eg might decide that policies like 400k IPD overall but 50k max per time or illness aren't good enough. They want 400k or some other number per illness. Doesn't solve their problem is someone is covered for only 50k on a 400k bill, because of per time 

- eg declining to accept a policy that doesn't explicitly say 40k OPD but says 20 X 2k max. We know how petty they can get

 

and so on...

 

 

[fletchsmile]

11 hours ago, wilailuk said:

Sure, lots of ways to find a good insurance.. I´m with these guys:

 

https://www.thaihealth.co.th/2012/product_simply_eng.php

 

 

Thanks again for the link. It's useful to know what's out there.

 

I'm not having a go at you personally and appreciate your post trying to be constructive, but....

 

Each to their own but I don't think that is "good insurance" either.

 

Generally insurance bought in Thailand is poor value for money. The insurance market here is still developing. Insurers like Pru, AXA etc move in as margins are very good for them, though risks a bit more difficult because of fraud among other things. Fat margins for insurers = poor value for policy holder.

 

Reason I say it's not a good policy:

 

Poor value for money. Premium is high compared to a relatively low level of cover. 400k might satisfy immigration but not going to go far if quality treatment is needed in a private hospital. Government hospitals are OK for the basics if that's someone's choice, but some of the serious stuff I really wouldn't want to be in a government hospital for.

 

On the plus side. At least the policy covers something, for someone who would otherwise struggle a bit with 400k. But a good policy. No

Edited May 16, 2019 by fletchsmile

[ubonjoe]

36 minutes ago, fletchsmile said:

Do you have a link to that?

It states this in the DOPH announcement in Thai (translated using Google translate).

"For those who buy health insurance for foreign companies, the amount of insurance must not be less than that of Thai health insurance as specified. Which may be considered for approval to be used to request a visa."

See: http://hss.moph.go.th/show_topic.php?id=2808&fbclid=IwAR0_lVsfwOAtT2AQkdeySsaM2LfJ9Od7yAiCcl4s8Bp3lik9zEKi-Kic-Cw

[fletchsmile]

1 hour ago, ubonjoe said:

It states this in the DOPH announcement in Thai (translated using Google translate).

"For those who buy health insurance for foreign companies, the amount of insurance must not be less than that of Thai health insurance as specified. Which may be considered for approval to be used to request a visa."

See: http://hss.moph.go.th/show_topic.php?id=2808&fbclid=IwAR0_lVsfwOAtT2AQkdeySsaM2LfJ9Od7yAiCcl4s8Bp3lik9zEKi-Kic-Cw

Thanks.

 

The info is from Ministry of Health which is one thing, i.e not immigration. All the noise so far seems to come from the Health Ministry. As Immigration would implement, it's really what they say will count in the end

 

The translation from the Thai is accurate "may be considered" to request approval. I wouldn't like to buy a policy on the strength of that. Very different to saying "will be accepted". Every chance they consider a particular policy and reject it, or may not consider it too ????

[SEtonal]

5 minutes ago, fletchsmile said:

Thanks.

 

The info is from Ministry of Health which is one thing, i.e not immigration. All the noise so far seems to come from the Health Ministry. As Immigration would implement, it's really what they say will count in the end

 

The translation from the Thai is accurate "may be considered" to request approval. I wouldn't like to buy a policy on the strength of that. Very different to saying "will be accepted". Every chance they consider a particular policy and reject it, or may not consider it too ????

Wording and interpretation is everything.  Some people were denied the 10-year OX visa because the requirements were unclear that funds had to be in a Thai bank for a year prior to even submitting the application for the visa.    The denied applicants wound up wasting money on Thai health insurance that had been required for the visa application.

[ancharee]

On ‎5‎/‎15‎/‎2019 at 9:39 AM, Thaidream said:

First came in 1971 and loved it and always planned to retire in Thailand.  I still love the Thai people but there are now so many negatives involved in settling in Thailand- 

It's not just the Immigration issues although they are a nuisance nor the possibility of medical insurance which is way overpriced for the coverage. 

 

What bothers me the most are=

 

-The costs of any product imported are rising constantly.  Imported medicines; foods; wines;  health products cost 3-5 times what they do in America/  

 

-Pollution- bad and getting worse year by year without any type of controls. The beaches are dirty; the water is filthy and no controls are enforced.

 

-Lack of Justice- the police do not do their jobs ; the judicial system is limited; and money controls the whole system.

 

-Income Inequality- There is a rising undercurrent in the population based upon a lack of income; education and opportunity fueled by alcohol and drugs. When there is no hope- youth acts out in ways that destroy civil society

 

-Lack of Any Moral Compass- Double Pricing; Scams;  Massive Corruption; Decaying religion

 

-Driving- completely out of control- chaotic and  will take generations to cure but there is no start to a program

 

-Education- my Thai Step Daughter is in a first rate Thai university but her future is limited- due to a real lack of opportunity and upward mobility except for the connected.

 

It's not one thing that is a deal breaker. It is the combination of things that make Thailand a society that is going backward while other countries are moving forward.

 

Like the OP- I worked  mostly outside Thailand- in Asia- and visited my Thai wife and family regularly and while I speak passable Thai- I never really focused on the negatives.  However, since full retirement in Thailand and having alot of time on my hands I have become fully aware of the negatives and any lack of commitment from the Government to do anything to really help the country.

When you add in the Immigration changes; possible  Insurance requirement and the decline of Western currencies, Thailand doesn't look as good as it once did.

 

If I was single  I would not stay in Thailand full time- I would  go to the Philippines and Japan.

 

However, people like myself have many assets in Thailand- House and Condo; cars; children in school and an extended Thai family so  making a move is not feasible.  

 

At this juncture- if one is not fully invested in Thailand with assets etc and you s still have a choice- I would think long and hard whether  what you want in life is available in Thailand long term.

Think about what Thailand will be 5. 10, 15, 20 years from now and what you want in life.

 

 

 

 

 

Well said, it's exactly how I feel, I live in a village with my wife and my 4 year old , very happy here for 11 years, try not to think about all the obstacles that can make it sometimes difficult to stay here, Xpats have choices in Thailand and we know the choices, depends on your circumstances , yes it's very frustrating. 

[marcusarelus]

21 hours ago, nervona81732 said:

Go to Vietnam! ????

If you believe in Karma many retired guys in Thailand should never go to Vietnam again. 

[EricTh]

If I have known earlier, I wouldn't have moved to Thailand.

 

I can't move out easily because I have a property in Thailand that I bought before the visa changes.

[marcusarelus]

2 hours ago, fletchsmile said:

Thanks.

 

The info is from Ministry of Health which is one thing, i.e not immigration. All the noise so far seems to come from the Health Ministry. As Immigration would implement, it's really what they say will count in the end

 

The translation from the Thai is accurate "may be considered" to request approval. I wouldn't like to buy a policy on the strength of that. Very different to saying "will be accepted". Every chance they consider a particular policy and reject it, or may not consider it too ????

Time is the thing.  How much notice will we get?  Is 70,000 worth sleepless nights?  Depends. 

[metisdead]

A grammar police troll post has been removed. 

[Destiny1990]

21 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

If you believe in Karma many retired guys in Thailand should never go to Vietnam again. 

Fyi most of these USA retired army guys are residing in Phillipines and not in Thailand.

[glegolo]

31 minutes ago, metisdead said:

A grammar police troll post has been removed. 

it was directed at me, but I didn´t mind at all, as being a non native speaker of english, I took it as a compliment that the guy thought that I actually was a native speaker...

 

So for me Ok... I dont mind at all.. but thanks any how.. I am from time to time also a grammar police and I am astonish over people who is native english speakers can´t see the difference bertween there and their.....

 

glegolo

Edited May 16, 2019 by glegolo

[JTXR]

When I moved here two years ago with a retirement visa, the U.S. embassy notarized income affidavits, TM-30s were never mentioned and there was no health insurance requirement.  If I had known about the new financial hoops to jump through, the TM-30 nonsense, and the potential health insurance requirement (I'm almost 70), then no, I probably wouldn't have moved here.  Fortunately, I don't have kids here and never intended to buy property or even a car, so leaving won't be the end of the world if I need to do it. 

Change is the only constant in life.  I'm rarely surprised or outraged by change.  Always best to think ahead and have a Plan B or two all worked out in advance, just in case you need one....

[Leaver]

2 minutes ago, JTXR said:

I'm rarely surprised or outraged by change.

I'm sure your surprise and outrage would be considerable if you did marry, did have a child, did buy a house, did buy a car, and then the goal posts got moved to a point where you no longer can play the game. 

 

Many are faced with this dilemma now, and their outrage and surprise is understandable. 

[BritManToo]

1 minute ago, Leaver said:

I'm sure your surprise and outrage would be considerable if you did marry, did have a child, did buy a house, did buy a car, and then the goal posts got moved to a point where you no longer can play the game. 

 

Many are faced with this dilemma now, and their outrage and surprise is understandable. 

Did all that but quite frankly I'm beyond caring any more.

Cambodia looks nice ............ I can walk away (again).

[Leaver]

25 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Did all that but quite frankly I'm beyond caring any more.

Cambodia looks nice ............ I can walk away (again).

No problem for me, either.

 

If an agent can't get me sorted, with some certainty, I'm off to Vietnam.

 

 I actually rang a friend in Vietnam the other day and he told me there are a lot of guys from Thailand in the bars there now.  I told him he should expect to see more in the future.

Edited May 16, 2019 by Leaver

[marcusarelus]

1 hour ago, Destiny1990 said:

Fyi most of these USA retired army guys are residing in Phillipines and not in Thailand.

FYI there are VFW posts all over Thailand, you did know there were a million Americans stationed in Thailand not too long ago. 

 

[Delight]

I came to live in Thailand in 2005. I am British

Thanks to Allan Greenspan with his 1% Fed Fund Rates move -I could afford to buy a condo.

The 70 baht to the pound became 50 as base rates all became the same.

The 50 has become 40 thanks to Brexit.

No new Britsh entrants are coming -it seems to me.

If this compulsory health insurance becomes mandatory -then that will finish it for Brits.

So  to answer your Q .

If the current financial circumstances had applied back in 2005 for certain I would have not  made the move.

Just too expensive.

 

 

[Woolsgibb60]

On 5/15/2019 at 1:45 AM, bkk6060 said:

Yes.

 

I guess it all depends where you come from and the monies you have.

I have a great retirement from California.

My rent for example in Pattaya is 330 US a month with an ocean view compared to 2,200 US + in California.

 

As a golfer it is also much cheaper (1/2 to 1/3) in Thailand.

 

Food is also much less.

 

Time with a lady cannot even compare so much better in Thailand. 

 

None of these Thai Visa rules bother me the rest of it more then makes up for any inconvenience.

 

 

 

Wow

[JTXR]

42 minutes ago, Leaver said:

I'm sure your surprise and outrage would be considerable if you did marry, did have a child, did buy a house, did buy a car, and then the goal posts got moved to a point where you no longer can play the game.

Surprise and outrage at change has nothing to do with how much skin one has in the game.  It's only a function of the degree to which planning was done knowing that change, even drastic change, happens all the time. 

 

Anyone who is not already thinking about what they will do if TI doubles or triples the financial requirements is going to be blind-sided if that happens.  Those who are thinking about it, and planning what to do if it happens, may need to make some serious changes, maybe even pack up and move on, but they won't be surprised or outraged by it.  If it never happens, so much the better, but not to foresee the possibility and plan ahead is inviting trauma down the road, I think.

[ubonjoe]

Since this topic has gone way off topic it has now run it course.

Topic