Residents of luxury condo want action as foreigners allowed to stay on daily rent

[from the home of CC]

10 minutes ago, ricklev said:

I do know the law.  And I know Thai property law professors who disagree with the statement made in that article.  Mainly about how precedent works in Thailand.

 

 

  "Even though the rulings were rendered by a court of the first instance, not by the Supreme Court, they will carry a heavy weight of court precedent to be followed by other courts in similar daily rental cases, the reason being that it’s an open and shut case based on a very clear provision of the Hotels Act."  

 

In any case, the idea that you can go to the police and cite a lower court case as establishing a law they should enforce is not how it works.......

 

This not to say if or if not it should be illegal.  

Combined with the fact these folks are not paying taxes in Thailand nor are they following immigration laws on reporting foreigners in many instances renting the room may be the least of their problems especially with the sharp increase in fines that are being planned. I would not be reporting the owner to the police for as stated earlier it's the JP that is responsible and so it would initially be them I reported to the Governors office. They tend to follow the law in Hua Hin as two previous condos have found out. 

[ParadiseLost]

1 hour ago, mok199 said:

if the owners who rented their units weekly, stopped paying their maintainance fees and the burden of upkeep was left on you and a few others

I fail to see what this has to do with renting out your flat - are you saying you can threaten not to pay your fees if you have a dispute with the management board? I would love to see your tenants agreement or equivalent where it excuses people if they have a beef, sir.

[ParadiseLost]

13 minutes ago, phetphet said:

Guy above me rents out on AirBnB. Constant stream of noisy Chinese. Multiple complaints have not had any affect. one family moves out, and another in. Sounds like they are playing football, shouting and heavy footfall.

 

No more complaints from me. Buying some massive speakers, and gonna put them below their bedrooms, put on some very loud techo in the early hours, and go out somewhere for a beer.

 

Once he starts getting bad reviews, he might start doing something about it.

Your neighbours will most likely put an end to it (or you) before these a-holes get any message. ????

[Mavideol]

4 hours ago, quandow said:

Gotta admit, I hate those temp renters. While not exactly a "luxury" condo, I was staying in a place that was supposed to be long term only. The <deleted> owners of the room next to mine would rent out to loud one-week-or-so tenants. Obnoxious loud, even the noisy sex was uninspired and really annoying.

jealous 555

[Skallywag]

A couple weeks ago 4 Chinese women all on their phones and with luggage next to them were outside the condo complex where I am an owner at around 7pm.  The security guy is there at front entrance, next to him is a large sign stating, "This in not a hotel, daily weekly rentals not allowed, etc.. " 

As I walk up, one chinese woman asks me where do you check in here. I simply say this is a condo complex and not a hotel, there is no check-in.  

I suspect most the AirBnB "rentals" are not run by the Foreign owners in my building.  There seems to be no stopping it, if someone gets a key card, security will let them pass - even if they do not have it when they arrive. 

Have seen security witness someone else bringing the key card and room key, handing it to the visitors standing out front with their luggage and then the key delivery guy leaving.   I would suspect owners could rationalize by saying the people are their "cousins from China" and they are simply staying for a few days while travelling through 

[Mavideol]

1 hour ago, JTXR said:

My condo, which I rent by the year, has a big poster in the lobby of each of the two buildings saying short-term rentals are illegal.  Nevertheless, the number of short-term "visitors" is continually increasing.  I can find two listed on AirBnB, and God only knows how many are listed on the equivalent Chinese sites.  The inability (or unwillingness) of police and condo management to enforce the law is at the top of the list of reasons I would never buy a condo in Thailand.

majority of owners are Thais, the invest money buying a condo and they want a return on the investment, the problem resides mostly in the management or builder sales persons not informing these owners about the law, if they do, people will not buy

[Mavideol]

7 minutes ago, Skallywag said:

A couple weeks ago 4 Chinese women all on their phones and with luggage next to them were outside the condo complex where I am an owner at around 7pm.  The security guy is there at front entrance, next to him is a large sign stating, "This in not a hotel, daily weekly rentals not allowed, etc.. " 

As I walk up, one chinese woman asks me where do you check in here. I simply say this is a condo complex and not a hotel, there is no check-in.  

I suspect most the AirBnB "rentals" are not run by the Foreign owners in my building.  There seems to be no stopping it, if someone gets a key card, security will let them pass - even if they do not have it when they arrive. 

Have seen security witness someone else bringing the key card and room key, handing it to the visitors standing out front with their luggage and then the key delivery guy leaving.   I would suspect owners could rationalize by saying the people are their "cousins from China" and they are simply staying for a few days while travelling through 

mostly security guards do not speak English, thus avoid questioning anybody waiting for keys...if there are foreigners owners renting than IMO should be involved as it's illegal

[KittenKong]

1 hour ago, PingRoundTheWorld said:

What's hilarious to me is that all these owners demanding a stop to Airbnb don't realize that Airbnb is (was) inflating rental prices - and property values with them. By putting a stop to it they are literally lowering their property value, resale prospects, ability to rent, and rental prices.

I dont care. I only want residents in my condo building. Ideally only owner-occupiers. If asked I would happily ban all rentals of any duration at all. And then I would watch the value of my condo go up and up as many people would like to live in such a building.

 

Renters drive property prices down because all most landlords are interested in is extracting as much value as possible from the building without putting anything in. Blood-suckers in fact.

[Mavideol]

1 hour ago, mok199 said:

 

Chcikens and pigs is a stretch sir...but , how would you feel if the owners who rented their units weekly, stopped paying their maintainance fees and the burden of upkeep was left on you and a few others who lived in the building...The perfect long term tenant is hard to find,mabey weekly rentals with a strong committee and funds is better than a once beautyfull swimming pool ,now a birdbath......I hear where you are coming from and in my building we are at this moment discussing this issue....I own and live in my unit with my family ...have a good day sir.

any owner of a condo unit has the obligation to pay any and all fees regardless if he/she rents or not their unit, if paying fees it's a burden for some owners then they should not have purchased the unit that they can't afford

[Skallywag]

17 minutes ago, Mavideol said:

majority of owners are Thais, the invest money buying a condo and they want a return on the investment, the problem resides mostly in the management or builder sales persons not informing these owners about the law, if they do, people will not buy

And because of this, management does not want the laws to be enforced for the "majority of owners" 

[PingRoundTheWorld]

1 hour ago, from the home of CC said:

Pure BS, the extra traffic and the lack of care from people who have no vested interest in the building LOWERS property values for the people that actually live there.

It might lower LIFE QUALITY value for the people that live there, but it most certainly does not lower property values. On the contrary - when you pour (tourist) money into a property then prices rise, period. When you take (tourist) money out of a property, prices fall. Money is money - it doesn't care about your quality of life. Some owners may prefer losing money for a better quality of life - and that's a fair trade - but it is a trade mot probably won't even realize until prices fall.

[BobbyL]

2 hours ago, JTXR said:

My condo, which I rent by the year, has a big poster in the lobby of each of the two buildings saying short-term rentals are illegal.  Nevertheless, the number of short-term "visitors" is continually increasing.  I can find two listed on AirBnB, and God only knows how many are listed on the equivalent Chinese sites.  The inability (or unwillingness) of police and condo management to enforce the law is at the top of the list of reasons I would never buy a condo in Thailand.

Sounds identical to my place. 

[from the home of CC]

Just now, PingRoundTheWorld said:

It might lower LIFE QUALITY value for the people that live there, but it most certainly does not lower property values. On the contrary - when you pour (tourist) money into a property then prices rise, period. When you take (tourist) money out of a property, prices fall. Money is money - it doesn't care about your quality of life. Some owners may prefer losing money for a better quality of life - and that's a fair trade - but it is a trade mot probably won't even realize until prices fall.

When you run down the common areas with daily renters to the point where condo fees can't up with maintenance you lower the value of the property. Also who in their right mind would buy an living space in basically a hotel. I believe you're confusing a serviced apartment with a condo, two different entities entirely.  

[david555]

What would happen if some rent out for 1 month contract ,but privately knowing they shall only stay example 2 weeks, contract made 1 month , payment received 1 month ...but no guarantee asked , and the remaining 2 weeks money paid back to leaving renter (using as a kind of guarantee ) …, looks like all legal as 1 month rent contract ? just a thought 

So many bypasses possible

 

PS: even if the condo building is a Condotel  could have hotel license which I think allows them to rent out short term , shady area

[KittenKong]

6 minutes ago, PingRoundTheWorld said:

On the contrary - when you pour (tourist) money into a property then prices rise, period. When you take (tourist) money out of a property, prices fall.

Nonsense. Landlords only remove money from a building. They are invariably the ones who bitch and moan the most when asked to pay extra on their common fees.

[PingRoundTheWorld]

13 minutes ago, from the home of CC said:

who in their right mind would buy an living space in basically a hotel. 

I wouldn't buy in Thailand at all because it's a terrible value proposition, but at least in my area (lower Sukhumvit) I'd be willing to bet 90% or more of the condos are owned by investors, not owner-occupiers. In more remote areas less popular with tourists banning Airbnb would have less of an impact, but in my area I'm already seeing rental prices going down in buildings that banned Airbnb. I expect sale prices to follow soon. A really nice building down the road from me used to have condos going for 30k a month a couple of years ago. Now you can find many at 25k and some even at 20-22k.

[Justgrazing]

5 hours ago, webfact said:

and foreigners were seen using methods to get round fingerprint scanners to enter the luxury building. 

Propped the door open with a brick .? I dunno give us a clue .. But as those bloody foreigners are involved again it was probably something dodgy .. 

[Pravda]

2 hours ago, PingRoundTheWorld said:

What's hilarious to me is that all these owners demanding a stop to Airbnb don't realize that Airbnb is (was) inflating rental prices - and property values with them. By putting a stop to it they are literally lowering their property value, resale prospects, ability to rent, and rental prices. Simple supply and demand - reduce demand, prices follow.

 

As a renter I'm actually looking forward to moving into a nicer place at the same or lower price in the future. Thank you anti-Airbnb folks! Hate the fingerprint scanners with a passion though - what an utterly stupid and annoying device.

 

You are greatly mistaken.

 

Where I own a condo (not Thailand) Airbnb has been pretty much banned in all downtown locations except maybe 2 buildings. The prices have only increaed in the last 5-6 years...as a matter of fact the prices have doubled.

 

People will not pay to live in trash but properly managed buildings which is rarity in Thailand 

 

 

[Traubert]

3 hours ago, JTXR said:

I can find two listed on AirBnB, and God only knows how many are listed on the equivalent Chinese sites. 

Hundreds, if not thousands.

 

 

[Traubert]

3 hours ago, JTXR said:

 

3 hours ago, JTXR said:

I can find two listed on AirBnB, and God only knows how many are listed on the equivalent Chinese sites. 

Hundreds, if not thousands.

 

The Chinese sites don't have the same regulations as AirBnB exactly but they are aware of the month or longer rule.

 

As another poster guessed (quite correctly) if anyone turns up, they can show a monthly contract but are maybe only staying a few days. If asked rentor and landlord will just cite family emergency and quick return home. Another rentor will probably arrive the same day. There's nothing ilegal on paper but the system is easy to circumvent, particularly when there's no common language. Who's going to translate the contract?

 

 

[remorhaz]

So long as its a Thai and not a foreigner making money from the practice and he or she is careful to share their good fortune with other Thais in charge of enforcing it there really isn't a problem legally speaking.  I'm sure the 'rules' say that it isn't allowed but c'mon...

[petedk]

3 hours ago, Maverell said:

 

We have Thai friends that have luxury condos south of Pattaya, in Hua Hin, in Rayong and houses in Phuket, Chiang Mai and Khao Yai.

For the past 15 years we have been taking short breaks and staying at these places for anything between one and five nights.

Especially the ones near Pattaya ...we drive down early Saturday and come back early Sunday.

We never pay them money and sometimes they come with us.

 

There are now big signs on each floor as in the above photo.

The security guard knows us well, but he did mention that we may have a problem in the future as some if the other condo owners are renting out to Russian tourists.

[Henrik Andersen]

4 hours ago, edgarfriendly said:

is there a 7 day minimum or is this the ridiculous minimum 1 month nonsense?

1 month 

[MartinKal]

Airbnb does a lot of good as it brings up rhe value of condos and brings in a good income for ordinary people.

In the block where I live there are never any problems. Airbnb rules and reviews makes sure everyone behaves respectfully.

The anti-Airbnb campaign is led by big chain hotel owners, often foreign shareholders, so no interest in Thailand or Thai people. They just want tourist income for themselves.

[Genericnic]

After reading these posts, I did a quick search for a 3 day stay on AirBnB in Chiang Mai. About 80% of the 306 listings appear to be from the Astra on Chang Klan Road. I wonder if the folks that brought to live there - and paid premium prices as I remember - are happy with all the short-term rentals in the building?

 

I was also very surprised not to see a single listing for the condo building I live in considering how many one-week or less tourist - mainly Chinese though not all - I see around the building. I'm curious as to where they might be advertising.

 

David

 

[hansnl]

4 hours ago, manarak said:

certainly not.

 

and prohibiting short term rent is an unacceptable cut into property rights.

That of course depends on the communale rules accepted on buying the property, besides feel free to have others use your condo, but not the hallways, gyms, pools, lifts, stairs etc, because those are not your property but a communale property.

[Cereal]

Man, that article was poorly written.

 

As an aside, why would someone want to buy a freaking condo? Buy a house. 

[peter14]

Thailand.. wake up  that the way forward..  stop whinning 

[toenail]

Yes, this is a problem especially with the new condo tower owners renting out to short term renters. People on a 2-3 week holiday want to relax around the pool and party at night verses owners or long term renters who want the pool area quiet & taken care of and no parties  next door at night. This is a big problem in Pattaya so it isn’t always best to purchase  one of those new condos in a huge complex that have a huge turn over of tenants/ vacationers. 

[david555]

1 hour ago, Traubert said:

Hundreds, if not thousands.

 

The Chinese sites don't have the same regulations as AirBnB exactly but they are aware of the month or longer rule.

 

As another poster guessed (quite correctly) if anyone turns up, they can show a monthly contract but are maybe only staying a few days. If asked rentor and landlord will just cite family emergency and quick return home. Another rentor will probably arrive the same day. There's nothing ilegal on paper but the system is easy to circumvent, particularly when there's no common language. Who's going to translate the contract?

 

 

I some has a contract 1 month and leaves sooner it is no problem ,as landlord can not put a chain on the renters foot, ???? if on paper contract is stated they rent 1 month . Leaving early is the renters freedom ,no explaining needed as long owner and renter are in agreement & as long both party's stick to their charade story 

This is not advisable for Airbnb as trace on website for real renting dates !!