The Procrustean bed for retirees.

[LivinLOS]

58 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

A thicky that wants to stay here and isn't qualified to buy anything else. 

People cant seem to understand.. Doesnt matter if the insurance is useless and wont pay out.. Its the price of admission and a system of generating more revenue for Thailand..

 

Pay the price or plan other options. 

 

[scubascuba3]

People cant seem to understand.. Doesnt matter if the insurance is useless and wont pay out.. Its the price of admission and a system of generating more revenue for Thailand..

 

Pay the price or plan other options. 

 

Yes it's a ticket to ride, but best to exhaust other options first. April International (Thailand) for example is much better and inexpensive with large deductible options

 

[madmen]

12 minutes ago, LivinLOS said:

People cant seem to understand.. Doesnt matter if the insurance is useless and wont pay out.. Its the price of admission and a system of generating more revenue for Thailand..

 

Pay the price or plan other options. 

 

Dead right. The problem is Thailand is miles ahead of anywhere else as a retirement destination AND they know it. Ten thousand expats running wont even register as a blip on the radar and lets face it the majority of them are obviously poor pensioners That Thailand do not want.

[Jingthing]

2 minutes ago, madmen said:

Dead right. The problem is Thailand is miles ahead of anywhere else as a retirement destination AND they know it. Ten thousand expats running wont even register as a blip on the radar and lets face it the majority of them are obviously poor pensioners That Thailand do not want.

It actually isn't miles ahead if you look at the GLOBAL options.

[sunnyboy2018]

23 hours ago, BritManToo said:

I avoided Cambodia for the last ten years because of everyone badmouthing it.

Then a pal moved there this year, I went to see him January in Siem Reap and loved the place.

Then I went to see him April in Phnom Penh again totally loved the place.

 

I can't believe I avoided it for 9 years .......... it was like Thailand when i first arrived ten years back.

More like Bangladesh 20 years ago. 

[totally thaied up]

20 minutes ago, LivinLOS said:

People cant seem to understand.. Doesnt matter if the insurance is useless and wont pay out.. Its the price of admission and a system of generating more revenue for Thailand..

 

Pay the price or plan other options. 

 

Can I afford the price? 

 

At this time I can but why should I like the price when you can see where this is leading you.

 

If they want an admission price to let us in, It has gone a step to far.

[madmen]

32 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

It actually isn't miles ahead if you look at the GLOBAL options.

Agreed should have SEA. I find eastern Europe (born in serbia) is going to be a better fit for me. Planning travels right across Europe is something I look forward to and on the bucket list

[LivinLOS]

31 minutes ago, totally thaied up said:

Can I afford the price? 

 

At this time I can but why should I like the price when you can see where this is leading you.

 

If they want an admission price to let us in, It has gone a step to far.

So you have reached your limit.. Plenty of others wont have.. Thats what they are budgeting on. 

 

Theres always this kind of idea that immigration policy is clueless and without a plan.. I would say thats not the case at all.. 

[Retdent]

On ‎5‎/‎15‎/‎2019 at 1:51 PM, xylophone said:

Now that sounds appealing and I could do the same in NZ............

 

I have already learned to downsize from a large three bedroomed detached house in NZ to my current 45 square meter apartment, ditching much clutter along the way, and I know now what is important to have and what isn't, and I'm sure I could get my most important things into some sort of large mobile home.

 

Food for thought, thanks.

 

It would need to be a very large mobile home to cart all of your wine around, especially at NZ prices!

[Lacessit]

1 hour ago, LivinLOS said:

So you have reached your limit.. Plenty of others wont have.. Thats what they are budgeting on. 

 

Theres always this kind of idea that immigration policy is clueless and without a plan.. I would say thats not the case at all.. 

Plenty of others? I would say more likely a small minority.

IMHO the perception of cluelessness arises from the fact no two Immigration offices have the same requirements. They are renowned for that.

Unless you want to argue that is part of a grand design?

[BritManToo]

8 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Plenty of others? I would say more likely a small minority.

IMHO the perception of cluelessness arises from the fact no two Immigration offices have the same requirements. They are renowned for that.

Unless you want to argue that is part of a grand design?

I would argue they hate us and are therefore as difficult as possible.

It's not about them wanting different documents, it's about them wanting documents you didn't bring to cause you further time and trouble.

That's what I always found when I used them anyway.

Edited May 16, 2019 by BritManToo

[scubascuba3]

It's not about them wanting different documents, it's about them wanting documents you didn't bring to cause you further time and trouble.

555, i think this is likely. Bring loads of docs with you but kept separate for when they ask.

I've had the same experience trying to open a bank account and they get nervous about doing it so request an unnecessary doc

[Lacessit]

29 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

I would argue they hate us and are therefore as difficult as possible.

It's not about them wanting different documents, it's about them wanting documents you didn't bring to cause you further time and trouble.

That's what I always found when I used them anyway.

You may be right. Or it could be that because you are not paying an agent, they don't get the extra dosh, and hence they see no reason to make things easy for you.

[xylophone]

50 minutes ago, Retdent said:

It would need to be a very large mobile home to cart all of your wine around, especially at NZ prices!

LOL...fortunately these days I have gone from having a large cellar with a few hundred bottles in it to a little wine cooler which holds a maximum of about 30 bottles, but would only need to store about a dozen bottles at a time in my mobile home in NZ!

 

As for the prices, yes one can get some very nice Aussie bargains in the supermarkets, so I would be tempted to stock up, but there's always a supermarket nearby, especially if I'm mobile!

 

Only a bit of a dream at the moment, but not entirely out of the question.

[LivinLOS]

2 hours ago, Lacessit said:

Plenty of others? I would say more likely a small minority.

IMHO the perception of cluelessness arises from the fact no two Immigration offices have the same requirements. They are renowned for that.

Unless you want to argue that is part of a grand design?

But thats enforcement not policy.. Same could be said of police judges and all kinds of things. 

 

But those who set these rules, and pass them through the cabinet, etc etc.. Are making it crystal clear.. 

 

I strongly suspect that once this rule is in effect, there will still be a whole lot more than 'a small minority' still here.. We shall see. 

[LivinLOS]

2 hours ago, BritManToo said:

It's not about them wanting different documents, it's about them wanting documents you didn't bring to cause you further time and trouble.

and by doing so 'encourage' you to use agents, who pay them nice and privately for the service you should have received for free. 

[4evermaat]

6 hours ago, 4evermaat said:

 

Actually, all of the articles made it quite clear that it only affected those wanting to obtain a non O-A visa based on retirement only.   The latest article says that the changes may take effect in July.  Nothing to do with yearly extensions and such.  I think even @ubonjoe has clarified this.  

 

The confusion comes when these news/announcement threads come with 100+ subsequent pages of replies spewing panic, speculation, etc as to what changes may be next.

 

5 hours ago, 4evermaat said:

 

 

A distinction is made between extensions of stay (occurring within Thailand at a local immigration) vs a non OA,OX visa (issued at embassy/consulate outside Thailand and gives the holder permission to stay stamps > 90 days (1 year in these cases).

 

 

But some still say it is confusing.  I admit there are several options to keep up with.  But if you look at each option objectively, the requirements for each path are pretty clear. 

 

Oh yeah, IMHO.

 

4 hours ago, Krataiboy said:

Nothing to do with yearly extensions. . . 

 

Hopefully, this is correct. But it would be helpful get a simple, clear statement to this effect from Thai Immigration. They must be aware of the confusion and alarm in the expat ranks.

 

 

Well, would you look at that.....  TVF actually seemed to have already seen the numerous amount of panic that ensued since the first article on the subject and wrote an article to explain what many tried to do so individually but are routinely drowned out by speculation and superstition:

 

 

I know, I know.  It's confusing.  It's misworded.  Thailand hates western expats. Et. al 

 

I didn't even know this article existed until a few minutes ago.  Yet several of us were able to draw the same conclusion.  Anyway, good luck.

[Leaver]

4 hours ago, madmen said:

Dead right. The problem is Thailand is miles ahead of anywhere else as a retirement destination AND they know it. Ten thousand expats running wont even register as a blip on the radar and lets face it the majority of them are obviously poor pensioners That Thailand do not want.

You are looking at the short term. 

 

Firstly, I disagree 10,000 expats leaving isn't a blip on the radar.  I think the negative publicity, and word of mouth, makes that 10,000 leaving expats not encourage the next generation of 10,000 retiring expats.

 

So, now you have 10,000 expats leaving, and you potentially have 10,000 expats not coming here to retire, then you have 10,000 expats that remained here passing away, and you eventually end up with a lot more than a blip, and more like a snowball effect. 

 

The Thai's will push the cost of a foreigner being allowed to live in Thailand to breaking point.  Typically of Thailand, they will see some short term profits, but long term loses, but it all about how much money they can get in the present.

[Leaver]

4 hours ago, LivinLOS said:

People cant seem to understand.. Doesnt matter if the insurance is useless and wont pay out.. Its the price of admission and a system of generating more revenue for Thailand..

 

Pay the price or plan other options. 

 

What price would you not be prepared to pay for the ride? 

[rickudon]

Getting back to the thread title, i wonder how many people actually knew what a Procrustean bed was? I must admit i had to look it up, and i am a bit of a walking encyclopedia. Actually a very 'fitting' title.

 

I am on marriage extensions and wonder when the Nazis will come for us. Much later i hope.

[mngmn]

2 hours ago, Leaver said:

The Thai's will push the cost of a foreigner being allowed to live in Thailand to breaking point.  Typically of Thailand, they will see some short term profits, but long term loses, but it all about how much money they can get in the present.

Thai scammers just keep tightening the screws until their 'target' either refuses to pay or has no more money. Then they move on to another target. When the scam no longer works they invent a new scam.

 

[impulse]

There's a whole tranche of expats in Thailand today that don't even remember what it was like before 2014 when you could stay in Thailand pretty indefinitely on monthly border runs and ED visas without ever showing up for classes.

 

In 5 years, there will be another entire group of expats who don't remember what it was like before 2019, when you could stay in Thailand with a dodgy affidavit swearing you make more money than you really do, and you didn't have to have health insurance.

 

It could be worse.  They could require a 400,000 additional bank deposit that can't be touched.  And, sad as that would be for those folks on a shoestring, it would be perfectly reasonable way to insure they don't get stuck with unpaid hospital bills from the guys who think they'll hop a plane back to the NHS when their heart explodes or when they throw a clot and need help now, not at the end of a 30 hour journey. 

 

They're offering the option to buy insurance.  Seems pretty reasonable.  And in the long term, I doubt it will affect the numbers, though it will affect some very personally.  And that's sad.  But that's life.

 

Edited May 16, 2019 by impulse

[madmen]

2 hours ago, Leaver said:

You are looking at the short term. 

 

Firstly, I disagree 10,000 expats leaving isn't a blip on the radar.  I think the negative publicity, and word of mouth, makes that 10,000 leaving expats not encourage the next generation of 10,000 retiring expats.

 

So, now you have 10,000 expats leaving, and you potentially have 10,000 expats not coming here to retire, then you have 10,000 expats that remained here passing away, and you eventually end up with a lot more than a blip, and more like a snowball effect. 

 

The Thai's will push the cost of a foreigner being allowed to live in Thailand to breaking point.  Typically of Thailand, they will see some short term profits, but long term loses, but it all about how much money they can get in the present.

Happy hour will suffer. lets face it the majority of runners are piss poor pensioners. Thats life 

[BritManToo]

17 minutes ago, impulse said:

It could be worse.  They could require a 400,000 additional bank deposit that can't be touched.  And, sad as that would be for those folks on a shoestring, it would be perfectly reasonable way to insure they don't get stuck with unpaid hospital bills from the guys who think they'll hop a plane back to the NHS when their heart explodes or when they throw a clot and need help now, not at the end of a 30 hour journey. 

I live on my pension,

I've never had a problem paying my bill in the government hospitals here, spent 1,500bht over the past month (would have died without the hospital). Considered returning the the UK for a 'free' operation, but it actually works out cheaper to fly to Goa and pay for the operation when you take into account flights and accommodation costs. Looks like TGH + pharmacy fixed my problem without surgery, but early days.

 

Why would you think I need to return without paying my bill here first?

Edited May 16, 2019 by BritManToo

[Lacessit]

34 minutes ago, rickudon said:

Getting back to the thread title, i wonder how many people actually knew what a Procrustean bed was? I must admit i had to look it up, and i am a bit of a walking encyclopedia. Actually a very 'fitting' title.

 

I am on marriage extensions and wonder when the Nazis will come for us. Much later i hope.

AFAIK being a farang overrides any consideration of your marital status. True, the deposit requirement is halved. However, if you are over 50 I can't see how being married to a Thai would exempt you from the health insurance requirement. As I said, one size fits all.

Correction. Let's just call it a scam. Because I would be fairly sure the defaults on Government hospital bills would be mostly coming from those on tourist visas. Mandatory Thai health insurance for those on tourist visas would decimate tourism in Thailand.

Edited May 16, 2019 by Lacessit

[impulse]

2 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

I live on my pension,

I've never had a problem paying my bill in the government hospitals here, spent 1,500bht over the past month (would have died without the hospital). Considered returning the the UK for a 'free' operation, but it actually works out cheaper to fly to Goa and pay for the operation when you take into account flights and accommodation costs. 

 

Why would you think I need to return without paying my bill here first?

 

You?  not a clue.  But it seems to happen often enough to concern the Thai hospitals and government.

 

[BritManToo]

4 minutes ago, impulse said:

You?  not a clue.  But it seems to happen often enough to concern the Thai hospitals and government.

Link to where they posted the names, addresses and nationality of all the defaulters or it never happened.

I've never got in the door of a hospital here without them photocopying my passport first.

 

This is nothing more than a continuation of the Thai government using the Thai media to demonise western citizens.

We think and speak about democracy, we report human rights violations, they don't want us to do that.

Edited May 16, 2019 by BritManToo

[impulse]

7 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Link to where they posted the names, addresses and nationality of all the defaulters or it never happened.

I've never got in the door of a hospital here without them photocopying my passport first.

 

This is nothing more than a continuation of the Thai government using the Thai media to demonise western citizens.

We think and speak about democracy, we report human rights violations, they don't want us to do that.

 

A few years back when they started making noises about mandatory insurance, they put out some numbers about how much the hospitals were getting stiffed by foreigners who skipped on their bills.  I recall thinking that it wasn't a huge number, but I don't recall what that number was.

 

Edit:  And again, you keep talking about elective visits to the hospital.  The concern is emergencies when they are legally required to save a life before they can assure payment.

 

Edited May 16, 2019 by impulse

[impulse]

44 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

AFAIK being a farang overrides any consideration of your marital status. True, the deposit requirement is halved. However, if you are over 50 I can't see how being married to a Thai would exempt you from the health insurance requirement. As I said, one size fits all.

Correction. Let's just call it a scam. Because I would be fairly sure the defaults on Government hospital bills would be mostly coming from those on tourist visas. Mandatory Thai health insurance for those on tourist visas would decimate tourism in Thailand.

 

They also proposed a 500 baht tax on every foreign arrival to defray the cost of foreigners stiffing local hospitals.  If they had been smart, they would have just quietly increased the airport arrival taxes.   Over 80% of the taxes paid on a plane ticket from the UK or the USA would have still gone to the UK or the USA. 

 

Have you ever read the fine print on your ticket to see where the money went?  Here's a hint.  The vast majority of the taxes don't go to Thailand.

 

Instead, they raised the prospect of increasing the arrival fee by 500 baht to help the hospitals (a whopping $16- maybe 1-2% of the total ticket price) and you'd have sworn from the reaction that they had stabbed a bunch of expats in the butt with a needle.  So that proposal died (or at least went comatose), and now we're back to mandatory insurance for long stay expats.

 

[Krataiboy]

3 hours ago, 4evermaat said:

 

 

 

Well, would you look at that.....  TVF actually seemed to have already seen the numerous amount of panic that ensued since the first article on the subject and wrote an article to explain what many tried to do so individually but are routinely drowned out by speculation and superstition:

 

 

I know, I know.  It's confusing.  It's misworded.  Thailand hates western expats. Et. al 

 

I didn't even know this article existed until a few minutes ago.  Yet several of us were able to draw the same conclusion.  Anyway, good luck.

Thanks, 4evermatt. I attempted to access this article yesterday, but the link wouldn't work.

 

It indeed asserts that medical insurance is to be made mandatory only for those of here on O-A visas obtained outside Thailand. If this is correct, it is hard to see how penalising such a relatively small section of the expat population will significantly reduce the alleged widespread abuse of the Thai public health system.

 

There is a more than a hint of bet-hedging, too, in the article's penultimate paragraph: "But it should be stressed that we are still awaiting clarification from Immigration regarding the interpretation and implementation of the new mandatory health insurance rules, including who exactly is affected (my italics).

 

It ain't over, for me at least, till the fat immigration lady sings.