WARNING to VFS global / visa4uk Visa costumers

[parryhandy]

7 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

Because the embassy/immigration would need to employ 5-10 people to process the mail each day. There would still be people posting in, out of date passports, incomplete forms etc. VFS can at least screen out the obvious invalid applications. 

The embassy can get by with minimal staff and processing facilities. instead of 20 people processing invalid and incomplete applications, they can cut it down to 2 people processing complete and valid applications.

I don't know about visas but regarding passports there's is absolutely no reason for VFS to exist . Everything is done in the UK now and I am quite capable of filling out a form and posting it myself as you are able to do if you live in various other countries in the world.

The only thing Embassies are involved with are emergency travel documents which are only needed now because it takes so damn long to get a passport replacement.

[Peterw42]

7 minutes ago, parryhandy said:

I don't know about visas but regarding passports there's is absolutely no reason for VFS to exist . Everything is done in the UK now and I am quite capable of filling out a form and posting it myself as you are able to do if you live in various other countries in the world.

The only thing Embassies are involved with are emergency travel documents which are only needed now because it takes so damn long to get a passport replacement.

Even if passports are done in the UK, I would imagine a percentage of applications would be incomplete , sent to the wrong address etc. 

VFS justs exists to make sure the applications are correct before sending them off to UK. Otherwise the UK end would probably be opening and returning every 3rd application, and that would take extra staff, extra recourses, all at UK pay rates.

[parryhandy]

1 hour ago, Peterw42 said:

Even if passports are done in the UK, I would imagine a percentage of applications would be incomplete , sent to the wrong address etc. 

VFS justs exists to make sure the applications are correct before sending them off to UK. Otherwise the UK end would probably be opening and returning every 3rd application, and that would take extra staff, extra recourses, all at UK pay rates.

Every application has to be checked individually so no extra staff is needed, if something is wrong a quick email to the applicant explaining problems or note left on file if they ring, move on to next passport. If VFS was scrapped tomorrow and the money saved used to hire more people at the passport office (which they ended up doing anyway)and to create a proper accountable helpline the efficiencies would be a lot greater IMO.

 I'd have no problem with VFS if they were an option but they're not, they are an unnecessary mandatory step costing people a lot of money unless you happen to live in or near Bangkok. Worse still they are not even accountable.

[OJAS]

2 hours ago, parryhandy said:

Everything is done in the UK now and I am quite capable of filling out a form and posting it myself as you are able to do if you live in various other countries in the world.

And I am sure that, in common with my good self, you would be equally capable of renewing your passport online! But, while HMPO are encouraging the use of this facility from other countries, they are steadfastly refusing its use for passport renewals from Thailand for some absurd reason.

[brewsterbudgen]

3 hours ago, Peterw42 said:

VFS does a basic check on the application and sends it to UK embassy/immigration. What aspect of that has been outsourced to India ?

VFS doesn't do visa's or passports, they collect the documents check they are complete with valid passport etc, then send them on to government immigration offices.

Besides an on-line system to book an appointment, VFS doesn't have an on-line system for visa/passport applications.

No visa decisions are made by the UK Embassy in Bangkok.  All ECOs responsible for issuing Visitor Visas for Thai applicants are now based in India.  For Settlement visas they are in Sheffield.

[theoldgit]

7 hours ago, parryhandy said:

They serve no purpose, why can't I mail my own documents ? why do they need to exist ?

Applicants don't need to mail applications and supporting documents, the application is submitted online and the supporting documents can be uploaded from home, but somebody has to check that the documents are not forged, believe it or not some applicants do attempt to submit false documentation.
Applicants have to have their biometric details captured, how would you propose to do that by post?

[eisfeld]

Outsourcing always is a means for cost cutting. And how do you cut costs? By employing cheaper staff and/or reducing service quality.

 

The application fees for visas easily can cover the salaries of local embassy staff.

 

Look at it this way: the exact same work has to be done no matter if the visa applications were to be processed by the embassy directly or by VFS. Same amount of applications, same checks have to be performed etc. VFS as a private company also wants to make a profit. The embassy on the other hand wants to reduce costs. So if you have the exact same amount of work, reduced overall costs AND someone else in the middle who wants to get a cut then either that company needs to be way more efficient in providing the service or take other measures to reduce its costs.

[Peterw42]

4 hours ago, brewsterbudgen said:

No visa decisions are made by the UK Embassy in Bangkok.  All ECOs responsible for issuing Visitor Visas for Thai applicants are now based in India.  For Settlement visas they are in Sheffield.

Visa decisions are not made in India or outsourced to India. UK Visas and Immigration has offices on the UK not in India. An Indian company has the contract to collect the documents and data in many countries (in Thailand its VFS not the Indian company), They then send the information to UK immigration.  Outsource companies are not making visa decisions or issuing visa's.

[theoldgit]

Visa decisions are not made in India or outsourced to India. UK Visas and Immigration has offices on the UK not in India. An Indian company has the contract to collect the documents and data in many countries (in Thailand its VFS not the Indian company), They then send the information to UK immigration.  Outsource companies are not making visa decisions or issuing visa's.

Decisions for Visit Visas are made in New Delhi by directly employed UKVI staff, applications for Settlement Visas are considered in Sheffield.

[Peterw42]

32 minutes ago, theoldgit said:

Decisions for Visit Visas are made in New Delhi by directly employed UKVI staff, applications for Settlement Visas are considered in Sheffield.

The point I was making is UKVI makes visa decisions not the outsourced companies. Where the UKVI staff are located is irrelevant, it could be in the Thai embassy, an office in India or an office in the UK. Its still the UKVI making the visa decision and issuing the visa. The collection of documents and data is outsourced then sent to UKVI.

 

If UKVI is anything like Australian immigration they may even farm out the approvals to any office. Australian visa's are usually done in the bangkok embassy but the last one I got back for my wife was done by someone in Australia, I presume because the embassy was busy.

 

 

[darren1971]

https://www.freemovement.org.uk/the-absolute-state-of-the-uk-visa-application-system/

 

The absolute state of the UK visa application system

"

Conclusion

It is difficult to know what to do. The prevailing view among immigration lawyers is that our system is going to hell on a handcart. We do know that the Immigration Law Practitioners’ Association (ILPA) is on the case and meeting with the Home Office on these issues. Ultimately, though, the over-reliance on commercial partners and flawed IT systems seems to be the problem.

"

[brewsterbudgen]

Visa decisions are not made in India or outsourced to India. UK Visas and Immigration has offices on the UK not in India. An Indian company has the contract to collect the documents and data in many countries (in Thailand its VFS not the Indian company), They then send the information to UK immigration.  Outsource companies are not making visa decisions or issuing visa's.

No. The ECOs are directly employed by UKVI and work in India. Some are brought over from the UK and some are directly employed.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[stevenl]

I have a negative experience with VFS visa handling, but for the Netherlands. Visa was approved, so nothing to do with negative feelings after rejection.

 

In short: no communication on the spot, attempts to push to their special service at an extra charge, unnecessary inconvenience for applicants, required to sign forms about service satisfaction before service used, no accountability for mistakes made.

[gmac]

So how long are visit visas actually taking at the moment?  My wife submitted her documents at VFS Trendy building on Friday 3 weeks ago and we are still waiting.  The UKVI site indicates most are dealt with within 10 working days and virtually all within 15 and we are now at the end of that. (That is assuming there were no holidays in the period though I'm not sure which country's hols would apply.......Thailand, India, UK, The Moon?) 

 

Where and how exactly due you contact them if you don't get a reply, everything gets submitted through VFS but they are clearly just a Post Office? 

[stevenl]

19 hours ago, gmac said:

So how long are visit visas actually taking at the moment?  My wife submitted her documents at VFS Trendy building on Friday 3 weeks ago and we are still waiting.  The UKVI site indicates most are dealt with within 10 working days and virtually all within 15 and we are now at the end of that. (That is assuming there were no holidays in the period though I'm not sure which country's hols would apply.......Thailand, India, UK, The Moon?) 

 

Where and how exactly due you contact them if you don't get a reply, everything gets submitted through VFS but they are clearly just a Post Office? 

For progress you'll have to contact VFS. They are also the ones who should update you.

[theoldgit]

2 hours ago, stevenl said:

For progress you'll have to contact VFS. They are also the ones who should update you.

VFS cannot update you, they will not know the progress of an application, they will only be aware when the passport is returned in a sealed envelope and may advise you of its return, if you've paid for their service.

 

You can call the UKVI Call Centre who may be able to advise, but often can't, calls cost £1.37 a minute, they cannot give you the outcome and will probably advise you to wait a tad longer.

 

https://www.gov.uk/contact-ukvi-inside-outside-uk/y/outside-the-uk/english

[stevenl]

9 hours ago, theoldgit said:

VFS cannot update you, they will not know the progress of an application, they will only be aware when the passport is returned in a sealed envelope and may advise you of its return, if you've paid for their service.

 

You can call the UKVI Call Centre who may be able to advise, but often can't, calls cost £1.37 a minute, they cannot give you the outcome and will probably advise you to wait a tad longer.

 

https://www.gov.uk/contact-ukvi-inside-outside-uk/y/outside-the-uk/english

Vfs updates when the application has left Bangkok, it is vfs that updates when the application is back on its way to Bangkok or applicant.

 

So yes, vfs updates and is able to tell where the application is.

[theoldgit]

Vfs updates when the application has left Bangkok, it is vfs that updates when the application is back on its way to Bangkok or applicant.

 

So yes, vfs updates and is able to tell where the application is.

Sorry but you’re still wrong.

The application is submitted online and directly routed to the UKVI in Delhi, as are the uploaded supporting documents.

The passport is sent to the local UKVI team in Bangkok.

When the decision has been made in Delhi the local team in Bangkok will either attach the visa vignette to the passport or print the refusal letter, and in both cases return the passport to VFS in a sealed envelope.

VFS don’t know the progress of the application until they receive the package back.

When a decision has been made the applicant will be auto advised by the UKVI that a decision has been made, but not the result.

So attempting to contact VFS will not enable the applicant to ascertain the progress of the application, until it arrives back in their office, by which time they will have already been advised by the UKVI that a decision has been made, which is what the question is.

[Traubert]

Only had two dealings with VFS and both were very good.

 

Replacement passport, very helpful, provided on the spot very cheap translations for some docs. I.e. rental contract, marriage certificate (contract in wife's name). They quoted 4-6 weeks and that's where the only snag arose. I didn't check my e-mail for 28 days and the passport had come back in 13. They return it to Liverpool if uncollected after 21 so I had a bit of a flap getting back to VFS's office to get it. My fault entirely.

 

The other was a Shengen visa for the wife. She stayed overnight and collected it the next day. French embassy. No fee.

[rasg]

Ditto. My wife had two visit visas, (the first for six, the second that ran consecutively for two years) and her settlement visa with no issues. Fast decisions in two weeks or less in each case. A Schengen to Iceland back in 2016 was completed on the spot. Also no fee.

 

It's the people who have been refused that shout the loudest and bang on about how poor VFS is.

[darren1971]

5 hours ago, rasg said:

Ditto. My wife had two visit visas, (the first for six, the second that ran consecutively for two years) and her settlement visa with no issues. Fast decisions in two weeks or less in each case. A Schengen to Iceland back in 2016 was completed on the spot. Also no fee.

 

It's the people who have been refused that shout the loudest and bang on about how poor VFS is.

people with nothing to complain about are unlikely to complain.... but people with a brain are able to look beyond their own experience

[rasg]

It's funny because 95% of visas sail through with no issues. Put a decent application together and there are no issues. You seem to have had problems with most of your applications.

 

I know why as we swapped over the 30 emails as I helped you get a successful visa for your girlfriend. If you remember, I read your initial sponsor letter.????

[stevenl]

11 hours ago, theoldgit said:

Sorry but you’re still wrong.

The application is submitted online and directly routed to the UKVI in Delhi, as are the uploaded supporting documents.

The passport is sent to the local UKVI team in Bangkok.

When the decision has been made in Delhi the local team in Bangkok will either attach the visa vignette to the passport or print the refusal letter, and in both cases return the passport to VFS in a sealed envelope.

VFS don’t know the progress of the application until they receive the package back.

When a decision has been made the applicant will be auto advised by the UKVI that a decision has been made, but not the result.

So attempting to contact VFS will not enable the applicant to ascertain the progress of the application, until it arrives back in their office, by which time they will have already been advised by the UKVI that a decision has been made, which is what the question is.

Sorry, you're still wrtonbg.

 

VFS can enquire where the passport is, and will/should inform (provided you pay for that service) when the application is on its way back.

 

"by which time they will have already been advised by the UKVI that a decision has been made, which is what the question is."

Yes, and it could easily be a decision has been made and VFS has been informed, they just failed to inform OP. So check with VFS about the progress.

They tend to avoid difficult questions and avoid taking responsibility, but in my experience they do tend to answer simply questions fast: do you know whether my application has been processed already, been 3 weeks now' is a simply question that in my experience will be answered quickly.

[theoldgit]

4 hours ago, stevenl said:

Sorry, you're still wrtonbg.

I'm grateful to you for taking the time to correct me again and I bow to your expertise, but I would like to make a couple of observations.

 

"VFS can enquire where the passport is, and will/should inform (provided you pay for that service) when the application is on its way back"

That shouldn't be too difficult, the passport never leaves Thailand, if VFS haven't received the sealed package contining the passport, it will still be with the UKVI team in Thailand.

 

"Yes, and it could easily be a decision has been made and VFS has been informed, they just failed to inform OP. So check with VFS about the progress".

The UKVI system automatically advises the applicant, but not VFS, when a decision has been made, but not what the decision is, applicants are advised that the passport will be returned to VFS shortly, it only has to travel about 5 kms. VFS will be aware of the progress when the pack containing the passport is received into their office, as I've mentioned before, the passport is either in Trendy or with the UKVI team in Bangkok.

When the UKVI inform the applicant that a decision has been made they can rest assured that the passport will be returned to Trendy in a couple of days.

 

"They tend to avoid difficult questions and avoid taking responsibility, but in my experience they do tend to answer simply questions fast: do you know whether my application has been processed already, been 3 weeks now' is a simply question that in my experience will be answered quickly". 
Yes, I agree, they tend to avoid difficult questions, that's why their contact details are not freely available, but in this case they would have no idea if a decision has been made, only if the pack has been returned to them or not.
I'm glad that in your experience questions in respect of whether the UKVI have made a decision can be answered by VFS, maybe you could share their contact details so that member gmac can make contact.

 

In the meantime gmac might wish to consider calling the UKVI Call Centre using the details I supplied earlier, for a fee they may be able to advise, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

 

 

[nauseus]

This all sounds a bit like like AMEX. After they outsourced their call services from Brighton to India, everything went titch up. I fired AMEX but can't do the same with the UK's Visa Service, really.  

[gmac]

15 minutes ago, theoldgit said:

I'm grateful to you for taking the time to correct me again and I bow to your expertise, but I would like to make a couple of observations.

 

"VFS can enquire where the passport is, and will/should inform (provided you pay for that service) when the application is on its way back"

That shouldn't be too difficult, the passport never leaves Thailand, if VFS haven't received the sealed package contining the passport, it will still be with the UKVI team in Thailand.

 

"Yes, and it could easily be a decision has been made and VFS has been informed, they just failed to inform OP. So check with VFS about the progress".

The UKVI system automatically advises the applicant when a decision has been made, but not what the decision is, applicants are advised that the passport will be returned to VFS shortly, it only has to travel about 5 kms. VFS will be aware of the progress when the pack containing the passport is received into their office, as I've mentioned before, the passport is either in Trendy or with the UKVI team in Bangkok.

When the UKVI inform the applicant that a decision has been made they can rest assured that the passport will be returned to Trendy in a couple of days.

 

"They tend to avoid difficult questions and avoid taking responsibility, but in my experience they do tend to answer simply questions fast: do you know whether my application has been processed already, been 3 weeks now' is a simply question that in my experience will be answered quickly". 
Yes, I agree, they tend to avoid difficult questions, that's why their contact details are not freely available, but in this case they would have no idea if a decision has been made, only if the pack has been returned to them or not.
I'm glad that in your experience questions in respect of whether the UKVI have made a decision can be answered by VFS, maybe you could share their contact details so that member gmac can make contact.

 

In the meantime gmac might wish to consider calling the UKVI Call Centre using the details I supplied earlier, for a fee they may be able to advise, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

 

 

Thanks for your input, I'm just going to sit tight for a few more days.  

 

I'll be losing enough on the plummeting exchange rate when I have to send money for the air tickets so I think I'll pass on giving the UKVI 1.37 a minute to listen to a recorded message telling me how important my call is before cutting me off as I am being transferred to an allegedly live actual human being.  

 

No reason to believe there is any problem with the application as it is basically the same as the previous 6 successful ones.  The issue seems to be the longer turn-around time since India was brought into the equation.

[Mister Fixit]

I had a problem with VFS twice. One was minor, but the other potentially serious.

 

The first one was now 3 years ago and was just that they had sent the wife a message to collect her passport the next day after 11 am - specifically after 11 am.  We arrived at Trendy about 11.10 am and were told by the dumbo on the reception desk that it hadn't come and to come the next day.  My wife would have done just that, but me being me, I refused because I had already arranged time off for the day they had advised and couldn't come back easily.  I asked to speak to someone and wouldn't budge.

It took quite a while to get someone to come out from their hidey-hole and when she did she plainly had no idea of how to deal with it.  I asked to speak to her manager.  Another girl came out, obviously not a manager, and after yet more to-ing and fro-ing (this after 30 - 40 minutes of them being incapable of dealing with it) she got the manager.

 

She was excellent and asked us to go for lunch and come back after 1 pm. We went and halfway through lunch we got a call to say the passport had arrived - only about 20 minutes after we'd left Trendy Building.  So that was OK but the inability to think flexibly flummoxed them as to what to do.  The manager could think outside the envelope and did finally explain that passports were returned in batches throughout the day and ours was scheduled for the 11 am delivery but must have been missed.

The moral is - don't just go with what the lower level staff say.  Insist on a full explanation from someone at a higher level.  We only had to come from Nonthaburi and it would have been  a pain to return again.  If I was someone from way upcountry and had to stay an extra night for the want of a proper explanation, I'd have been furious.  

 

The second one was last year where we had to wait just over two weeks for the passport (usually only about 4-5 days).  OK, I should have checked it there and then when I collected it but I didn't do it until I got home.  Then I saw that whoever made out the visa had entered MY birth year of 1949 on the visa and not hers of 1969.  

 

The next day was a Saturday but I went back anyway because they are open for special applications then.  Yet again the people on the front desk were useless but I insisted that they find a manager, which again took about 15-20 minutes - in a deserted office?

 

She told me to come back on Monday (what a surprise) but I was pretty terse with her and she reluctantly took back the passport there and then.  To be fair, I was called on the Tuesday early to come and collect it and this time it was correct, but someone had added a terse hand-written note to it to say not to apply more than 30 days early again (we submitted it 32 days early!).  Something tells me the ECO was miffed at having his error pointed out so thought he'd retaliate! 

 

And that second one was quite serious and if I had not spotted the wrong birth date she could have been refused entry to the flight.

 

So two (perhaps 3) lessons learned - 

 

1) - check everything immediately BEFORE YOU LEAVE  THE BUILDING!

 

2) - be politely insistent and assertive if they refuse to deal with an error.  Don't take no for an answer and ask to see a manager.  

 

3) - refer to 1 and 2 above