Power generator

[djayz]

We regularly experience blackouts / power failures out where we live, especially during the raining season as soon as the wind picks up. 

 

I want to find a solution to this persistent problem which brings me to these two questions. 

 

Firstly, should I look at solar power or a diesel generator as an alternative source of energy? 

 

Secondly, what brands do you recommend and why?

 

Bear in mind it's for a small family home and typically just for a few lights, a fridge, fans and/or air-conditioner. 

 

[geoffbezoz]

I think this has been done to death over the years and suggest you await Crossy's advice. ( why not pm him ?) However you will need to have an understanding of your actual power requirements in order that an informed judgement can be made.  I suspect that a generator set maybe the simplest and most economical solution but I suggest you wait to see a cost breakdown from an expert.

[samuttodd]

Back home,  I have a toyota prius hybrid that I have hooked up a 1000 watt sine wave inverter to.  

 

The inverter is actually hooked to the 12 volt battery in the car,  and the electricity is drawn from it.  As the 12 volt battery gets used up,  the car automatically kicks on and tops the 12 volt off again.   '

 

I run along extension cord to my freezer and to a power strip for lights,  fans etc.   If a guy got serious he could put in a grid tie to the residential electrical,  and shunt power from the alternate source to certain select tied in appliances/lights.

 

Here in Thailand,  It might be easier to buy a small gas generator,  or get one that can run gas/propane/kerosine,

 

You could buy some deep cycle batteries and arrange them in a 12 volt array and charge them with some solar panels,  you'd want to get a good inverter.... They had all of that stuff at "do home"  and I'd bet they could point you towards an electrical guy that could hook it up for you..

 

Other than that,  you could always hook up a car alternator to a bicycle powered wheel and generate 12 v power to a battery.

 

 

If your car is parked near where you need the power,  you could get a good inverter (1-2kw)  and run it from the alternator of the car as needed (or the 12 v battery while the car is running)    Would be kind of a gas hog,  but if you've already got the car...

 

You can't go wrong with a honda or yamaha generator,  but they are expensive, and have been known to get up and walk away.   There are loads of generators on lazada,  but nearly all of them are chinese junk.  

[djayz]

51 minutes ago, geoffbezoz said:

I think this has been done to death over the years and suggest you await Crossy's advice. ( why not pm him ?) However you will need to have an understanding of your actual power requirements in order that an informed judgement can be made.  I suspect that a generator set maybe the simplest and most economical solution but I suggest you wait to see a cost breakdown from an expert.

I'm sure it has been discussed a few times, but I can't find any threads relating to it. My search abilities are pitiful... Thanks for the reply. 

[djayz]

49 minutes ago, samuttodd said:

Back home,  I have a toyota prius hybrid that I have hooked up a 1000 watt sine wave inverter to.  

 

The inverter is actually hooked to the 12 volt battery in the car,  and the electricity is drawn from it.  As the 12 volt battery gets used up,  the car automatically kicks on and tops the 12 volt off again.   '

 

I run along extension cord to my freezer and to a power strip for lights,  fans etc.   If a guy got serious he could put in a grid tie to the residential electrical,  and shunt power from the alternate source to certain select tied in appliances/lights.

 

Here in Thailand,  It might be easier to buy a small gas generator,  or get one that can run gas/propane/kerosine,

 

You could buy some deep cycle batteries and arrange them in a 12 volt array and charge them with some solar panels,  you'd want to get a good inverter.... They had all of that stuff at "do home"  and I'd bet they could point you towards an electrical guy that could hook it up for you..

 

Other than that,  you could always hook up a car alternator to a bicycle powered wheel and generate 12 v power to a battery.

 

 

If your car is parked near where you need the power,  you could get a good inverter (1-2kw)  and run it from the alternator of the car as needed (or the 12 v battery while the car is running)    Would be kind of a gas hog,  but if you've already got the car...

Thanks for the reply, but that with the car battery, extension cord, etc. is WAY too complicated for me (or Mrs Djayz). 

[Fruit Trader]

56 minutes ago, djayz said:

I'm sure it has been discussed a few times, but I can't find any threads relating to it. My search abilities are pitiful... Thanks for the reply. 

Let Google do the work for you

Click here

[CGW]

We have a Honda 10 kw generator, no issues at all with it in the two years we have had it.

[pikao]

I would go for a generator. I´ve lived with solar energy quite a long time in Spain. Lights are no problem, but the fridge already is. A/C, no way, unless the dimension of the insallation is according to this. Biggest problem and cost: batteries.

The sun doesn´t shine when you need the electricity (rain, night)

[Crossy]

First thing you need to determine is exactly what you need to run and for how long. "A few lights and a fan for an hour" soon turns into "all the lights, fans, freezer, fridge, PC, TV, water pump etc. etc. all night".

 

Also, running leads and stuff every time the power goes off (it's invariably dark and raining) becomes old very rapidly, so some means of safely connecting a generator or other source into the house wiring is essential.

 

Unless it really is "A few lights and a fan for an hour" I would suggest a generator, either petrol (cheaper to buy) or diesel (cheaper to run) possibly with automatic start and an automatic transfer switch (to connect to the house).

 

Solar with batteries and a hybrid inverter (which can operate grid-tie if the power is on), will save you money every day but is not a cheap purchase and requires a stack of paperwork to allow you to connect to the grid.

 

None of this is beyond a competent DIYer, but then consider if you want a contractor to do the job (or part of the job) for you (could be $$$).

 

We have a cheapo KwaiThong 5.5kVA petrol generator which I have modified for remote starting (it was already electric start) and a home built automatic transfer switch. It runs everything except the water heaters and aircon (it actually does run our bedroom aircon). It works well, keeping Wifey (and her koi) happy even when I'm at work, all I have to do is check / top up the fuel every week and change the oil every 6 months or so.

 

I never recorded the money but I suppose we've spent maybe 2000 US (the genset was 22,000 Baht, it is a cheap unit) getting it to how we want, but I have done all the work myself.

 

The only negative of being the only house in the area with the lights on is that it attracts the locals like moths to a flame. They will come and watch your TV, eat your food and drink your beer ????

 

[carlyai]

@djayz Another thing to consider is where to mount the beast. You need it far enough away for noise reasons, but not next to next door's bedrooms. Also the exaust fumes can be a worry when the wind changes.

If you are in the country, mice etc can and do chew out your cables, so your mounting room has to have enough air intakes for the machine, but built to try and keep out the wildlife.

If you need to build a small shed for the machine, make sure it's size is 'falang' friendly. My shed is too small and with a new knee ...not fun navigating the area.

Lastly, buy an electric kettle (just bought mine) and a plug in power, voltage, frequency meter for testing the beast off-line when it hic-ups.

Oh forgot. Seems the specifications for the cheaper Chinese gensets are somewhat exagerated. From memory my 7KVA unit starts to get upset at around 7 to 9 A, way lower than the specs.

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[Naam]

11 hours ago, djayz said:

Bear in mind it's for a small family home and typically just for a few lights, a fridge, fans and/or air-conditioner.

forget solar.

[djayz]

Thanks guys. Right, from the above replies, which were all very helpful, I've decided to forget the solar power option and we can live without air-con during outages. Important to me is that we have lights, fan and the fridge running.

 

CGW recommended a Honda 10kw generator. I've looked that up and it seems to be something I think I could live with. I'll take a closer look at it in our local hardware store (GlobalHouse) this weekend. 

 

There's a lot of terminology in some of the threads about this so the learning curve is quite steep for me. 

 

Thanks again to all the posters who replied. 

 

 

[djayz]

9 hours ago, CGW said:

We have a Honda 10 kw generator, no issues at all with it in the two years we have had it.

Does yours automatically kick in when the power dies? 

[carlyai]

I think with a 10 kw machine you could run your aircon too.

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[Crossy]

9 minutes ago, carlyai said:

I think with a 10 kw machine you could run your aircon too.

 

Our little KwaiThong 5.5kVA unit will run the 12,000 BTU (non-inverter) unit in our bedroom.

 

I also tried and succeeded running the 23,000 BTU (inverter) in the lounge as a test (the soft start of the inverter helped a lot).

[djayz]

44 minutes ago, carlyai said:

I think with a 10 kw machine you could run your aircon too.

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32 minutes ago, Crossy said:

 

Our little KwaiThong 5.5kVA unit will run the 12,000 BTU (non-inverter) unit in our bedroom.

 

I also tried and succeeded running the 23,000 BTU (inverter) in the lounge as a test (the soft start of the inverter helped a lot).

So if I understand you guys correctly, the Honda 10kW is more than what is needed to power a simple household? So in theory, something a little smaller/less powerful would also be adequate? 

[nycjoe]

I recently put a 6.5 kilowatt generator in my workshop it powers the house and two aircons. But I have to turn the aircons off to use the shower heater. Where are you located?


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[djayz]

1 minute ago, nycjoe said:

I recently put a 6.5 kilowatt generator in my workshop it powers the house and two aircons. But I have to turn the aircons off to use the shower heater. Where are you located?


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In Korat, but way out in the sticks. 

The village loses power on a regular basis during the rainy season. Typical for rural Thailand apparently. 

[bankruatsteve]

I run all the fans, lights, TVs, computer, like that along with a fridge and freezer on a 2 KVA Honda.  It will burp and shudder a little bit when the water pump comes on (about 3.5 amp) but it handles no problem.  If I turn on anything else, like the toaster and kettle at the same time, it will literally go into a death roll.  IE:  most generators cannot handle their full rating.  And, at night when most things are off, it will also handle the 12K BTU aircon.  That said, I am seriously considering at least a 5 KVA diesel so I CAN run those things along with everything else.  Still no hot water though.

[tifino]

I gather that having supply voltage interrupted whilst the backup is still firing up, is acceptable? 

[Crossy]

Don't plan on loading your genset over about 75% of rated load. 

 

A 10kVA unit is theoretically equivalent to a 15/45 MEA/PEA supply but in reality it won't have the surge capability, I would organise it so you don't run the water heaters from the genset.

 

If you have stuff that cannot manage the 30 seconds (or whatever) time between the juice going off and the genset starting you will need to provide UPS cover for that kit. We have UPSs on all the PCs and the important TVs (can't interupt Madam's thai soaps).

[nycjoe]

we used these to connect line from meter to 100 mp breaker, then to transfer switch to generator to house

[David B in Thailand]

I would not rule out Solar in May 2019. There have been many advances in the products and installations of solar power systems that I have personally seen in Buriram and Surin Province. I have visited homes that are off the grid. I've seen hundreds of dc brushless submersible deep well pumps connected to 6BB 340 watt Poly solar panels. I've been in a home in Buriram with solar air conditioning. 

[djayz]

4 hours ago, David B in Thailand said:

I would not rule out Solar in May 2019. There have been many advances in the products and installations of solar power systems that I have personally seen in Buriram and Surin Province. I have visited homes that are off the grid. I've seen hundreds of dc brushless submersible deep well pumps connected to 6BB 340 watt Poly solar panels. I've been in a home in Buriram with solar air conditioning. 

My heart is telling me to go solar, in the long run it's probably what we'll all have to do one day anyways, but right now I need a quick fix. I know I definitely want to use solar power down on the "farm" though. Thanks for the input. Much appreciated. 

[sanmyintmaung]

In addition to power generator, I would suggest adding UPS to the wiring that power the lights. UPS will make sure light will stay on during power outage so that you won't have to fumble around in the dark. You only need to fire up the generator if the power outage is long and you need the air-con.

[djayz]

Since starting this thread, this is the 2nd time I've been told about UPS, which, until now, I had always assumed was a delivery service. After some very quick, basic research, I now have an idea of what it is. 

Having zero experience with UPS, is there a particular brand you recommend and, more importantly, what size/capacity should I be looking for? As I've said before, we can do without air-con as long as we have a few lights and a fan. Fridge would be nice, but isn't a must. What range/size/capacity is recommended? 

Thanks in advance for any replies. 

How long do these devices usually run for when powering lights and a fan? 

[Crossy]

3 hours ago, djayz said:

How long do these devices usually run for when powering lights and a fan? 

 

It depends on the battery size, if it's a regular PC type UPS maybe 30 minutes.

 

There are "whole house" UPS systems about (India loves them), but again you need battery capacity.

 

Let's try an example=-

Stand Fan = 50W

LED lights = 20W

PC or small TV (I promise you will need this) = 100W

 

Total load 170W allowing for inverter inefficiency let's say 200W from the batteries. So that's 200 Watt/hours per hour of operation.

 

A good quality, 12V, deep-discharge, lead acid battery of 100Ahr capacity will give you 12V*50Ahr = 600 Watt hours to 50% discharge. So that's about 3 hours, then you get plunged into the dark until the power returns for long enough to re-charge the batteries. A 10A charger will take 6 hours or so to re-charge your 100Ahr battery.

 

Now the big plus of using a battery based system is that it's silent in operation. The big minus is the batteries, they are not cheap, you need to look after them and they do wear out and of course there's the recharge time.

 

You could modify a low-cost PC UPS to use external batteries for longer run times but there are pitfalls, loads of info on the net or ask here if you think going this way is for you.

 

 

[sanmyintmaung]

5 hours ago, Crossy said:

 

It depends on the battery size, if it's a regular PC type UPS maybe 30 minutes.

 

There are "whole house" UPS systems about (India loves them), but again you need battery capacity.

 

Let's try an example=-

Stand Fan = 50W

LED lights = 20W

PC or small TV (I promise you will need this) = 100W

 

Total load 170W allowing for inverter inefficiency let's say 200W from the batteries. So that's 200 Watt/hours per hour of operation.

 

A good quality, 12V, deep-discharge, lead acid battery of 100Ahr capacity will give you 12V*50Ahr = 600 Watt hours to 50% discharge. So that's about 3 hours, then you get plunged into the dark until the power returns for long enough to re-charge the batteries. A 10A charger will take 6 hours or so to re-charge your 100Ahr battery.

 

Now the big plus of using a battery based system is that it's silent in operation. The big minus is the batteries, they are not cheap, you need to look after them and they do wear out and of course there's the recharge time.

 

You could modify a low-cost PC UPS to use external batteries for longer run times but there are pitfalls, loads of info on the net or ask here if you think going this way is for you.

 

 

I use multiple UPS to distribute the load. 1 for TV, 1 for lights.

Fan does not like modified sine wave electricity from UPS.

I found that I still need power generator for black outs longer than 3 hours but those are rare.

 

APC 1500VA can power 40 inches LCD TV for 30 minutes.

https://www.lazada.co.th/products/apc-br1500gi-power-saving-back-ups-pro-1500va865w-i234956224-s360200903.html?spm=a2o4m.searchlist.list.3.181d5efd1q8kPm&search=1

 

Additional battery pack from APC give another 2.5 hours of run time so total of 3 hours viewing.

https://www.lazada.co.th/products/apc-back-ups-pro-external-battery-pack-for-1500va-back-ups-pro-models-i262179496-s403665056.html?spm=a2o4m.searchlist.list.9.42dc36e6MVH1EN&search=1

 

I use the external battery pack from APC that use gel-type batteries also known as motorcycle batteries which are maintenance free for at least two years. After two years, they don't hold charges well and need to be replaced.

[David B in Thailand]

I have had significantly better results and longer UPS life with APC brand UPS offered in Thailand. The OP might consider the Honda EG6500CXS generator. It is a reliable source of economical, portable power. With 6500 watts, the EG6500CXS generator offers convenient electrical power and is available from any Honda Power Products dealer in Thailand. In Buriram I found it to be easy to start with the key or on the first pull. It is the largest genuine Honda petrol generator sold in Thailand in 2019.  Rated AC output is 5.0KVA.  Maximum Output is 5.5 KVA.  The 24 liter petrol tank can offer you up to 8 hours of emergency back up power in Thailand. If you are 7 meters from the Honda generator the noise level is 72db. Same shops who sell the only genuine Honda HRJ216K3 self propelled grass lawn mower could have the Honda Inverter and traditional Honda power generators in stock in Thailand.

 

[carlyai]

That lovely Honda sounds like just what you need.

 

If you get a good price and service contract as well, plus the shop may install it.

 

Buy the APC UPS at the same time and get a better deal.

 

All set to enjoy the wet season.

 

I wouldn't entertain a cheaper Chinese genset like I have, as the mechanical throttle adjustment also changes the engine frequency output.

Just a bit of a pain getting everything setup again if something happens. Hopefully the Honda is more betterer engineered.

 

I've this UPS on my internet, and if the power fails, wifey still has her ipad to watch her shows and i have my phone to watch the football.

 

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