Mandatory health insurance for non-immigrant O-A retirement visa holders likely to take effect in July

[zoza]

On 5/16/2019 at 9:46 AM, dauu said:

In the article that was presented in Link, this figure of 38 million does not appear anymore

 

2018

 

Non-immigrant (O-A) visa holders: 38 million 

Number of medical visits by them: 3.42 million

Number of unpaid medical bills: 680,000

Number of long-stay expats seeking medical services: 80,950

Outstanding debt: Bt305 million

it is still there? on the link page 11, you might have to look for it though???? or did you not look?

or do you work in immigration? there is enough misinformation on here already. 

[actonion]

I dont know how foreigners leave un-paid  medical bills  when the hospital will wheel you to an ATM machine  before  any treatment is administered.   I asked at Chonburi  Immigration department yesterday when is this going insurance thing  going  to start. the officer replied "fake news", dont know what your talking about !!..

[madmen]

I know 2 guys , one 75 and the other in his 80's. Barley living month to month on poor pensions. They dont give a rats about health insurance and must be thousands more like them.

[Guest]

29 pages of this "Sky is Falling" crap, and still, most replies are totally wrong.
 

 

[connda]

I wrote to a friend of mine in the US who is in his 70 and who has been coming to Thailand on the Non-immigrant O-A in the past.  When informed that he will need to purchase the "Pay $3000 dollars for $13,000 worth of insurance that will not cover any of his current medical problems" he essentially said, "Hell no I won't be returning to Thailand."  Just like that.  As he said to me, he's been coming here for years, has gone to hospitals and paid cash for services, and hasn't shelled out more than $300 no less the $3000 he'd have to pay for the 'privilege' of returning.

That's what you'll begin to hear from individuals who currently use the Non-imm O-A once they implement the wealth transfer from foreigners to Thai insurance companies in the form of 'mandatory insurance policies' that are over-priced and offer next to nothing in actual insurance coverage.

The Thai government just put a stake though the heart of the Non-imm O-A program imho.

So they will probably come after long-stay Non-imm O and Non-imm M next as their friends in the Thai insurance company won't get their 'Windfall Profits' by attempting to fleece Non-imm O-A holders.  They figure they will have a captured audience with retired and married expats who have invested assets in Thailand who are waiting in the wings to be hog-tied and sheep-sheared. 

 

Well, those assets can be liquidate before we leave.

 

[actonion]

When I asked at the  Chonburi Immigration  information desk yesterday. when is this Health  Insurance law  going to start,   he replied  " I don't know what you talking about, there is no new law,  its fake news"

[madmen]

3 minutes ago, connda said:

I wrote to a friend of mine in the US who is in his 70 and who has been coming to Thailand on the Non-immigrant O-A in the past.  When informed that he will need to purchase the "Pay $3000 dollars for $13,000 worth of insurance that will not cover any of his current medical problems" he essentially said, "Hell no I won't be returning to Thailand."  Just like that.  As he said to me, he's been coming here for years, has gone to hospitals and paid cash for services, and hasn't shelled out more than $300 no less the $3000 he'd have to pay for the 'privilege' of returning.

That's what you'll begin to hear from individuals who currently use the Non-imm O-A once they implement the wealth transfer from foreigners to Thai insurance companies in the form of 'mandatory insurance policies' that are over-priced and offer next to nothing in actual insurance coverage.

The Thai government just put a stake though the heart of the Non-imm O-A program imho.

So they will probably come after long-stay Non-imm O and Non-imm M next as their friends in the Thai insurance company won't get their 'Windfall Profits' by attempting to fleece Non-imm O-A holders.  They figure they will have a captured audience with retired and married expats who have invested assets in Thailand who are waiting in the wings to be hog-tied and sheep-sheared. 

 

Well, those assets can be liquidate before we leave.

 

that's one guy. Thousands already living here with zip zero nada insurance

[2tall]

absolute rubbish stats, total fake nonsense reporting. The usual BS ineptness so ingrained in everything thai.

[brewsterbudgen]

When I asked at the  Chonburi Immigration  information desk yesterday. when is this Health  Insurance law  going to start,   he replied  " I don't know what you talking about, there is no new law,  its fake news"

That's most likely because it has zero to do with Immigration offices in Thailand. The visas that will require insurance (OX which already does, and OA from 1 July) can only be purchased at Thai Embassies overseas. Nothing to do with Immigration offices in Thailand.

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[connda]

1 hour ago, Andrew Dwyer said:

The figures have been adjusted, seems like the 38 million was visitors !!
OA visa holders for 2018 was 80,950 .
 

So the 80,950 OA holders made 3.42 million visits to hospitals and left 680,000 unpaid bills? 

80,950     expats on Non-imm O-A
3,420,000 visits

680,000   unpaid bills

 

Think about those dubious stats that look as though they we tossed together by feeding data into a Cuisinart.
What you have is a bunch of malarkey that attempts to demonize long-stay expats.

The issue is more than likely with tourist who come here, skip their bills and run for their planes.
Long-stay expats don't have that ability.  The report their address every 90 days and most are anchored to Thailand by way of assets. 
 

But watch the Thai media work with the government to make all long-stay expats not only potential criminals, but also hospital bill skipping freeloaders to boot in the public eye.
But they'll do naught about the tourist problem.  They'll fleece long-stay expats who are low hanging fruit and call it all good -- until we leave and start taking those billions of Thai baht we inject into the GDP of this country with us. 

[BritManToo]

16 minutes ago, madmen said:

that's one guy. Thousands already living here with zip zero nada insurance

I'm one of the thousands, had 5 trips to government hospital in the last four weeks (3 were to emergency).

My hospital bill was 1,500bht ........... (paying from 600bht to 77bht per visit)

 

Tell me why I need insurance again?

Bit of a wait (2-5hrs) each visit, didn't mind the 50bht extra foreigner charge on the bill, but can't fault the service

[connda]

1 minute ago, connda said:

So the 80,950 OA holders made 3.42 million visits to hospitals and left 680,000 unpaid bills? 

80,950     expats on Non-imm O-A
3,420,000 visits

680,000   unpaid bills

3,420,000 / 80,950 = 42.2

680,000 / 80,950 = 8.4

Wow.  Talk about an unhealthy bunch of people.  These moochers come to Thailand and make 42.2 visits to hospitals a year each, and then each leave 8.4 hospital bills unpaid on average. 

[zydeco]

12 minutes ago, madmen said:

Thousands already living here with zip zero nada insurance

Why should they? With pre-existing conditions and other exclusions, they won't be covered anyway. And any money they spend on a worthless insurance policy will mean less that they have to pay in cash when they need to make a hospital visit. Which means Thai hospitals are still stuck with the same problem of taking in so-called charity cases. Insurance solves nothing. In fact, it makes matters worse. It will simply be a transfer of money to insurance companies with little benefit to purchasers. 

[Mango Bob]

18 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

That's most likely because it has zero to do with Immigration offices in Thailand. The visas that will require insurance (OX which already does, and OA from 1 July) can only be purchased at Thai Embassies overseas. Nothing to do with Immigration offices in Thailand.

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How about because they have not finished all the details on how they are going to handle it.  It will and does affect us.  Count of it.  Also, stop attacking the one who gives you the bad news.

[brewsterbudgen]

How about because they have no finish all the details on how they are going to handle it.  It will and does affect us.  Count of it.  Also, stop attacking the one who gives you the bad news.

There is nothing to handle. It only affects visa applications at overseas Embassies. In-country Extensions are not affected.

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[GeorgeCross]

2 hours ago, malagateddy said:

How much do you think you would pay in the UK...Bupa for example for out patient care value £1000..and in patient care to value of £10000??

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in the UK you would pay 16,000 baht annually for the NHS surcharge which comes with unlimited coverage both in and out patient, no pre-existing conditon exclusions and its for any age

 

mandatory for long stay settlement visas 

 

source: https://www.gov.uk/healthcare-immigration-application/how-much-pay

 

oh and of course being a developed country, after 5 years they give you a passport and you don't have to pay it ever again.

 

not 50-250K every year until you die broke in your late 90s with a policy that covered $%$% all of consequence.

 

 

 

[pagallim]

9 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

That's most likely because it has zero to do with Immigration offices in Thailand. The visas that will require insurance (OX which already does, and OA from 1 July) can only be purchased at Thai Embassies overseas. Nothing to do with Immigration offices in Thailand.

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That was my impression also, but apparently not true.    I believed that Non Imm O-A could only be obtained from Thai Embassies/Consulates in home countries/permanent residence countries.   That appears not to be the case.   This from the MFA website (http://www.mfa.go.th/main/en/services/4908/15385-Non-Immigrant-Visa-"O-A"-(Long-Stay).html????

 

3. Channels to submit application

Applicant may submit their application at the Royal Thai embassy or Royal Thai Consulate-General in their home/residence country or at the Office of the Immigration Bureau in Thailand located onGovernment Center B, Chaengwattana Soi 7, Laksi, Bangkok 10210, Tel 0-2141-9889.

 

So it appears that the main Immigration Office in Bangkok can issue them.   Again, my impression was that an O-A Visa had to be renewed when expired, not extended, and again through a home country Thai Embassy/Consulate.   Apparently it can be extended, though again specifically in Bangkok:

 

5.4  Foreigner who wishes to extend his or her stay shall submit a request for extension of stay at the Office of the Immigration Bureau with documented evidence of money transfer or a deposit account in Thailand or an income certificate showing an amount of not less than 800,000 Baht or an income certificate plus a deposit account showing a total amount of not less than 800,000 Baht.  A one-year extension of stay shall be granted at the discretion of the immigration officer to the foreigner as long as he or she meets the above requirements.

 

Whilst the initial visa application gives the option of home bank/income options, an extension within Thailand only mentions Thai banks.

 

Not trying to be a smart ass, but just so many contradictory statements/posts happening at the moment, as an example, the 'official' commencement of the Medical Insurance requirement being 1st July.   Only a Police Order and subsequent editing of the MFA website can confirm that, and I guess that will be reasonably imminent if it's going to happen at all.

[connda]

19 minutes ago, madmen said:

that's one guy. Thousands already living here with zip zero nada insurance

My statement is a fact that I can source.
Your statement is opinion unless you can back it with a source.

On the flip side.  Medical costs are cheap here and most can pay out of pocket for health care.  Long-stay expats who stay here, own assets, and provide immigration with their address every 90 day aren't the problem as they can be tracked down and bills collected.  If you can cover 400k/40k THB out-of-pocket, you don't need fake Thai insurance.  It's good to have a REAL insurance policy that will cover 5m, 10m, 20m or more THB for a reasonable premium.  Mine is 30k THB max for 60k a year over 65 of age. 

 

Make insurance affordable and people will purchase it if they need it.

The problem according to the media reporting we hear about consistently about tourists and working age young folk living in Thailand either getting into accidents or having a costly medical emergency and having no insurance.  They either skip the bill and run to the planes or go to GoFundMe.

[connda]

I wonder if they can drive a stake though the heart of Thailand's aspirations of being the Hub of Medical Tourism.

Will they force Medical Tourists to purchase high-priced, worthless insurance in order to come to Thailand to seek low-cost medical procedures? 
Oh, wait a minute.  Probably not.  They'll allow the Medical Tourists to come, and being tourists they'll rack up charges at medical facilities and then run for their planes.  Thai authorities will then point the finger at long-stay expats who have the resources to pay for their own healthcare and who can be tracked down if they skip a bill because - they live here and most have assets. 

[Mango Bob]

23 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

There is nothing to handle. It only affects visa applications at overseas Embassies. In-country Extensions are not affected.

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So you think they are going to only make those who apply for a visa at an embassy or consulate have health insurance but that those who live here and do an extension of stay year after year do not need health insurance.  Think about it.

[mitebbots]

4 hours ago, lamyai3 said:

If you apply before the changes are brought in, you won't need the medical cover.

before July 1st? Or is there an actual date yet?

[Andrew Dwyer]

That was my impression also, but apparently not true.    I believed that Non Imm O-A could only be obtained from Thai Embassies/Consulates in home countries/permanent residence countries.   That appears not to be the case.   This from the MFA website (http://www.mfa.go.th/main/en/services/4908/15385-Non-Immigrant-Visa-"O-A"-(Long-Stay).html[emoji20]  

 

3. Channels to submit application

Applicant may submit their application at the Royal Thai embassy or Royal Thai Consulate-General in their home/residence country or at the Office of the Immigration Bureau in Thailand located onGovernment Center B, Chaengwattana Soi 7, Laksi, Bangkok 10210, Tel 0-2141-9889.

 

So it appears that the main Immigration Office in Bangkok can issue them.   Again, my impression was that an O-A Visa had to be renewed when expired, not extended, and again through a home country Thai Embassy/Consulate.   Apparently it can be extended, though again specifically in Bangkok:

 

5.4  Foreigner who wishes to extend his or her stay shall submit a request for extension of stay at the Office of the Immigration Bureau with documented evidence of money transfer or a deposit account in Thailand or an income certificate showing an amount of not less than 800,000 Baht or an income certificate plus a deposit account showing a total amount of not less than 800,000 Baht.  A one-year extension of stay shall be granted at the discretion of the immigration officer to the foreigner as long as he or she meets the above requirements.

 

Whilst the initial visa application gives the option of home bank/income options, an extension within Thailand only mentions Thai banks.

 

Not trying to be a smart ass, but just so many contradictory statements/posts happening at the moment, as an example, the 'official' commencement of the Medical Insurance requirement being 1st July.   Only a Police Order and subsequent editing of the MFA website can confirm that, and I guess that will be reasonably imminent if it's going to happen at all.

Unfortunately this MFA website is incorrect !!

OA visa can only be obtained on your home country or a country you are classified as resident.

 

This information came from Ubonjoe and he’ll be along soon to verify it .

 

Plus you extend your permission to stay based on retirement from an OA visa at the IO where you are living, I did my extension at Ayutthaya.

 

 

[Jingthing]

14 minutes ago, Mango Bob said:

So you think they are going to only make those who apply for a visa at an embassy or consulate have health insurance but that those who live here and do an extension of stay year after year do not need health insurance.  Think about it.

Indeed.

Things are very unclear now.

This guy seems sure it will apply to all retirement extensions as well, although I really don't understand how ANYONE has any full certainty about what is going to happen with the health insurance requirement YET. Lots of guessing and speculation. Nothing DEFINITIVE. 

 

 

[lamyai3]

2 minutes ago, mitebbots said:

before July 1st? Or is there an actual date yet?

July 1st, assuming that date is more accurate than the number of people who are here on Non O/As as reported in the news yesterday. 

 

There's also the separate subject of the new e-visa application system, supposed to be rolled out in mid June. This looks like it could be fraught with complications, requiring both online and in person application, and the sending of documents to Bangkok for approval, rather than checking them in-house at the embassy as they do currently. If you're applying for the this month you'll bypass both of these problems. 

[DUNROAMIN]

18 hours ago, brewsterbudgen said:

No. It's only required when applying for a OA (or OX) visa. It doesn't apply for Extensions of any kind.

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Too confusing for me now, TV forum seems to change its story from day to day. I think I'll just wait until I have to renew my I year extension of stay and see what immigration says.

[Jingthing]

7 minutes ago, DUNROAMIN said:

Too confusing for me now, TV forum seems to change its story from day to day. I think I'll just wait until I have to renew my I year extension of stay and see what immigration says.

Depending on when your next extension comes up, you probably won't need to wait that long. I assume we'll know a lot more starting in July. 

[pagallim]

18 minutes ago, Andrew Dwyer said:

Unfortunately this MFA website is incorrect !!

OA visa can only be obtained on your home country or a country you are classified as resident.

 

This information came from Ubonjoe and he’ll be along soon to verify it .

 

Plus you extend your permission to stay based on retirement from an OA visa at the IO where you are living, I did my extension at Ayutthaya.

 

 

Thanks for the clarification, always best to get 'actual experience' even in the face of contradictory 'official' website directives, and allowing for the variances we all experience between individual local IO's.

 

Incidentally and out of interest, presumably your first O-A was obtained at home, with the Medical/Police Clearance certification.   When you're extending (in your case Ayutthaya), do you have to provide new certification?

 

Given that local IO's are able to process O-A extensions, and as it appears that that category is the only one affected by the proposed medical insurance mandate, I can foresee much wailing and gnashing of teeth by IO's at checking individual insurance documentation, not all of which will be of local (Thai) origin.   They are unable to verify income sources other than Embassy letters, which doesn't bode well when you throw multi lingual health insurance policies into the mix. 

[brewsterbudgen]

So you think they are going to only make those who apply for a visa at an embassy or consulate have health insurance but that those who live here and do an extension of stay year after year do not need health insurance.  Think about it.

Who knows what they will do in the future. However the current proposal is only for visas not Extensions.

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[Mango Bob]

1 minute ago, brewsterbudgen said:

Who knows what they will do in the future. However the current proposal is only for visas not Extensions.

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I want to hope you are right, but I still have my doubts about it.  But if we do have to have the insurance they are given us so little time to prepare.  For a 50-year-old is not as bad, but when your 71 and have hypertension and a heart valve replaced it going to take some time to find an insurer.  I have health insurance as a retired military soldier but it has no policy only your id card and that you have part a and b from Medicare.  I know it better than the 40,000/400,000 they want you to have.  But how do you prove that to a Thai IO.

[swellbelly]

Looks like the numbers were crunched by TAT, always a reliable source.