End of Consular Outreach for Americans in Thailand

[skatewash]

Well, I guess we now know one thing the staff that was freed up from doing embassy income letters won't be doing:
 

Quote

 

Dear American Citizens,

The U.S Embassy Bangkok and Consulate General Chiang Mai will no longer provide scheduled Consular Outreach Services .

 

-- https://th.usembassy.gov/u-s-citizen-services/consular-outreach/

[Pib]

Less and less support from the American Citizens Services (ACS).  But I'm sure they will say it will allow them to provide better support "at" the embassy. 

[Jingthing]

More like they don't need to make any excuses. We're low pri.

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[Pib]

You are right.  The priority for the US Embassy is definitely not American citizens in Thailand.  Instead it's keeping good relations with Thailand....maintaining and expanding U.S. interests.  

[Langsuan Man]

Just a symptom of this administrations attitude towards International affairs, expats are just caught in the cross hairs 

 

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/2/12/17004372/trump-budget-state-department-defense-cuts

[ubonjoe]

14 hours ago, Pib said:

Less and less support from the American Citizens Services (ACS).  But I'm sure they will say it will allow them to provide better support "at" the embassy. 

I think they have stopped doing them since there would only be a handful of people showing up for the outreaches since they cannot do the income affidavits any more.

I would guess 90% or more going to the outreaches were getting income affidavits.

[watcharacters]

6 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

I think they have stopped doing them since there would only be a handful of people showing up for the outreaches since they cannot do the income affidavits any more.

I would guess 90% or more going to the outreaches were getting income affidavits.

 

The last time the embassy staff  came to Pattaya I told the lady that helped me I was pretty sure it'd be the last outreach visit the Embassy made.    She agreed and suspected I referred to the income letter.

 

I told her that's not the problem but rather there was zero security for the personnel.    Whatever the reason, I believe it has more  to do with security issues than anything else.

 

I'm sorry to see the program come to an end.

[OJAS]

21 hours ago, Pib said:

You are right.  The priority for the US Embassy is definitely not American citizens in Thailand.  Instead it's keeping good relations with Thailand....maintaining and expanding U.S. interests.  

Yep, I'm rapidly coming to the conclusion that the US Embassy, as enthusiastically aided and abetted by its UK & Aussie counterparts, is pulling out all the stops to maintain good relations with Thailand by rendering the various powers-that-be in LOS every assistance they might need in making life as miserable and difficult as is humanly possible for American, British and Australian expats in particular.

[mania]

I see no more passport renewals except by mail but...

 

Does this End of Consular Outreach include notarial services? Such as residence certification etc?

 

 

[longball53098]

I suspect the US State Department has budget constraints just like every government office. Cutting off the income letters was a cash cow and loosing that they more than likely could not budget the money for any more travels to do the Outreach. Couple that with the fact that the Embassy's real role in Thailand is to enhance the US's face in foreign relations. The Embassy is not in business to support US citizens who happen to be here in Thailand or any other country for that matter. We as tax payers may see that differently.

As far as I can see they ACS section will continue with the usual services they were performing at the Embassy such as passport service and notarial service. Passport service can be accomplished via email and EMS mailing and no need to travel to Bangkok 

[ubonjoe]

3 hours ago, mania said:

I see no more passport renewals except by mail but...

Does this End of Consular Outreach include notarial services? Such as residence certification etc?

 

You can still apply for a passport in person at the embassy or the consulate in Chiang Mai. But they will mail to the new one to you.

Nothing has changed at the embassy or consulate. The still offer notary services and etc.

[wwest5829]

18 hours ago, OJAS said:

Yep, I'm rapidly coming to the conclusion that the US Embassy, as enthusiastically aided and abetted by its UK & Aussie counterparts, is pulling out all the stops to maintain good relations with Thailand by rendering the various powers-that-be in LOS every assistance they might need in making life as miserable and difficult as is humanly possible for American, British and Australian expats in particular.

While not a conspiracy type, I do wonder if these countries are collectively beginning to turn attention to the number of their own citizens from the working middle class, out priced in their own countries who flee for retirement in lower cost countries. Australia and British retirees have already experienced some negative steps dissuading them for spending their retirement incomes offshore. I have no doubts that if the American Republicans seize on this, they too would try to penalize offshore retirees. I had already had a FB commentator refer to me as not having an equal citizen voice in US political opinions as I had "defected" by living in another country.

[Jingthing]

39 minutes ago, wwest5829 said:

While not a conspiracy type, I do wonder if these countries are collectively beginning to turn attention to the number of their own citizens from the working middle class, out priced in their own countries who flee for retirement in lower cost countries. Australia and British retirees have already experienced some negative steps dissuading them for spending their retirement incomes offshore. I have no doubts that if the American Republicans seize on this, they too would try to penalize offshore retirees. I had already had a FB commentator refer to me as not having an equal citizen voice in US political opinions as I had "defected" by living in another country.

Well, it's not exactly a secret that the idea of moving away from the U.S. is not appreciated or understood by a large percentage of Americans. Expatriate -- does that mean unpatriotic? Americans are propagandized from an early age that most of the world wants to move to the U.S. so Americans moving away is off message. Repatriating back after a long time would be a culture shock too, many Americans might see such people as similar to new immigrants. What? You want me to install a bum gun in your bathroom? There certainly is no political price to pay for not treating expats well and there's probably a benefit for some. Of course, exceptions would be military people abroad, embassy officials, and temporary wealthy corporate type expats (maybe not so much on policy but on public attitudes). 

[Boon Mee]

ACS at the Embassy in Bangkok is a very unpleasant experience. Overcrowded little room and staffed with the most rude consular officials I have ever dealt with in any country. 

[GinBoy2]

It would be an interesting statistic on how many people actually showed up for the outreach meetings.

 

In all my years living in Khon Kaen, I 'liked' the idea of consular outreach, but I never in reality attended a single one.

 

Maybe apathy on the part of the American expat community, might have contributed to this decision.

 

So I have no idea if thats true or not, but I'm sure I'm not alone in that state of apathy!

[Jingthing]

I attended one time in Pattaya and the very large room was packed and the overflow area was crowded too. I do think the vast majority of people were there for income letters though. 

[malibukid]

2 hours ago, wwest5829 said:

While not a conspiracy type, I do wonder if these countries are collectively beginning to turn attention to the number of their own citizens from the working middle class, out priced in their own countries who flee for retirement in lower cost countries. Australia and British retirees have already experienced some negative steps dissuading them for spending their retirement incomes offshore. I have no doubts that if the American Republicans seize on this, they too would try to penalize offshore retirees. I had already had a FB commentator refer to me as not having an equal citizen voice in US political opinions as I had "defected" by living in another country.

by living in Thailand American expats are saving the US taxpayer huge  amounts of money.  i am not using my Medicare here and hence i am not a burden on the health care system.  the Republicans should applaud this. perhaps they would like us to stay in the U.S., use our Medicare and contribute to the corrupt health care system? 

[Hockeybik]

Obviously not good news for anyone up countrt. I live in Bangkok. But my experience with ACS at the Embassy has always been excellent.

[grantbkk]

The outreach service is gone but ACS in my experience has been excellent in every case. Death of a friend, Social Security Issue and passports their assistance and support was incredible. 

 

Don’t be a hater just because you are in that Thai Visa group that views everything under the sun in a negative way.  

 

Now I’ve heard some stories about other embassies neglecting citizens ...

[ubonjoe]

Some posts and replies to them bringing politics into the discussion have been removed. 

Political discussion are not allowed on this forum.

[Pib]

I see the Australian Embassy, which also stopped issue of income letters, is still doing outreach visits.  Focusing on notarial and passport services.  Next one in Jun 2019 in Chiang Mai.

 

https://thailand.embassy.gov.au/bkok/Consular_Outreach.html

 

[ChouDoufu]

apply for passport by mail?  apply by email?  and they mail the new passport back to you?  that's awesome!

 

when renewing a passport in in china (southern region served by guangdong), you must come in person.  after 2-4 weeks you get an email, and they refuse to mail it back.  it must be picked up in person.

 

you can authorize someone to pick up for you, but if you live 1000 km away and don't know anyone in guangzhou?  oh, and the helpful operators at the embassy (if they answer the phone) won't provide any information on agents with offices in the same building.

 

sure, get there and you can call around.   oh, no, you can't.  you had to leave your mobile phone at home.  can no longer leave it with security.

[theboogeyman]

Honestly who cares who needs them?  I’ve been here for 5 years now and I’ve been to zero embassy outreach programs and I never had a desire to go to one.  Now that we no longer need those stupid embassy income affidavits anymore THANK GOD, I’ll never go to the embassy again for about another 9 years until I have to renew my passport again.  If they were to close the embassy it honestly wouldn’t bother me.  Although they did put out some really good information about a month ago regarding international Direct Deposit of Federal Benefit payments.  

 

I’m taking advantage of it for my VA pension since I’m rated 100% disabled. But my regular Military Retirement Pay and my wife’s Retirement Social Security Pension Benefit payments will just continue to go into our US Bank.  My VA pension is more than enough alone I’m 21 years retired from the military and actually medically retired.  

 

Anyway the only use I have for the embassy is just renewing my passport once every decade, other than that nothing really.  Good riddance to this and their income affidavits.  ????

[theboogeyman]

What was so good about them anyway? Did they have free beer and barbecue at the embassy outreach events?

 

I guess it’s nice if they come to you for something saves a really long trip to Bangkok I guess but I prefer to see them at my convenience. And honestly now that we no longer need those dumb income affidavits anymore THANK GOD I only need the embassy about once a decade for a new passport every 9 years since I always renew it a year early.

 

The embassy has really made themselves insignificant to American Citizens these days and now they probably have a great time at work doing very little. After I retired I almost got a job in the foreign services because I knew the right people to get one. I prefer total retirement instead.

 

 

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[new2here]

It would be an interesting statistic on how many people actually showed up for the outreach meetings.
 
In all my years living in Khon Kaen, I 'liked' the idea of consular outreach, but I never in reality attended a single one.
 
Maybe apathy on the part of the American expat community, might have contributed to this decision.
 
So I have no idea if thats true or not, but I'm sure I'm not alone in that state of apathy!

While I think the narrative that the Embassy doesn’t care about its citizens or the like, is always going to resonate better, I suspect that a large percentage of the decision was based upon what work will really be done at each event, the number of citizens that attend — all weighted against the cost to operate it and the security issues.

Given that income affidavits are now not a part of the picture, I suspect that the remaining work load and concurrent with that, the number of citizen-attendees that each outreach would draw, just doesn’t justify its continued existence.

To me, making that kind of a decision makes sense. While the Embassy isn’t a for-profit entity like a traditional commercial entity would be, i do think that with limited operating funds, they have to make choices as to how to expend their funds relative to the work load, cost for service, geographic demand for said service and alternative available service channel options.


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[hansnl]

On 5/16/2019 at 8:36 PM, Pib said:

You are right.  The priority for the US Embassy is definitely not American citizens in Thailand.  Instead it's keeping good relations with Thailand....maintaining and expanding U.S. interests.  

Try to live with it, embassies are there for serving the interests of the country, serving trade interests, serving big business etc, etc.

Serving the interests of the people is not important at all any more, only getting your tax is important.

[kokopelli]

4 hours ago, GinBoy2 said:

It would be an interesting statistic on how many people actually showed up for the outreach meetings.

 

In all my years living in Khon Kaen, I 'liked' the idea of consular outreach, but I never in reality attended a single one.

 

 

The Out Reach in Pattaya was packed with Americans primarily for the income certification letter. It was a great service to Americans and sadly will be missed.

[brommers]

Welcome to being treated like the UK government years Brits. With contempt!

[theboogeyman]

You are right.  The priority for the US Embassy is definitely not American citizens in Thailand.  Instead it's keeping good relations with Thailand....maintaining and expanding U.S. interests.  

Well it’s always been that way it’s that way with all our embassies around the world. US citizen services is a very small part of what embassies actually do. The foreign service employees who handle US citizen services are just a very small portion of the embassy staff and they’re very low level civil servants. I used have a job kind of in that area and I’ve dealt with most of the US Embassies throughout Asia. The Consular Sections of the embassies are the lowest priority. Honestly the embassies usually can’t even get their actual missions done most of the time either. In my former job most of the real work was done by people like me who worked unregistered outside of the embassy, but the Diplomatic Mission is a different story kind of.


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[impulse]

5 hours ago, malibukid said:

by living in Thailand American expats are saving the US taxpayer huge  amounts of money.  i am not using my Medicare here and hence i am not a burden on the health care system.  the Republicans should applaud this. perhaps they would like us to stay in the U.S., use our Medicare and contribute to the corrupt health care system? 

 

But every pension, savings, and SS dollar you spend in the USA has a ripple effect for the US economy.  It probably sees 5 pockets before finally being decimated by taxes- with the gov't and the wealthy getting a slice each time it changes hands. 

 

Every $$$ you spend overseas leaves the USA, never to be seen again.