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BANGKOK 27 June 2019 19:56
myjawe

Water heater installation, what could go wrong ?

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Indeed, what could go wrong??

Water, electricity.

Check your insurance policies and wear rubber soled shoes

Goodness sake call a qualified electrician and be sure and safe and alive

 

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1 minute ago, RJRS1301 said:

Goodness sake call a qualified electrician and be sure and safe and alive

 

If you can find a good, qualified domestic sparks in Thailand make sure to keep his number, he is a rare breed indeed.

 

There ARE many good and qualified electricians here, but they're all employed in O&G or the mega-projects and earning pots.

 

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On 5/17/2019 at 10:33 AM, Beggar said:

I always connect live and neutral correctly. Otherwise something that seems to be switched off still can be under power. I never care about cable colors but always check myself what is the live and what is the neutral wire. 

How do you do that, lick your finger and touch the wire. Whichever one tingles.....that's LIVE!   LOL

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, bankruatsteve said:

Did you mean "borrowed"?  I know the US NEC has (or at least used to have) discussion specific for that.  Actually, there is one case where it is required:  For kitchens, there must be L from the phase left and L from the phase right (2 circuits) with N shared.  That is the only exception.

But that is only for the arcane and weird wiring and electrical used in the North American continent (2 countries) and AFIK no other countries (195 countries) world wide. 

 

Also a borrowed neutral refers to 2 or more circuits that share a neutral, AFIK the US feeds 240v with a single 4 wire circuit PL, PR, N & E that in the distribution panel is required to use a single 2 phase breaker. So this not a case of having a borrowed neutral.

2 hours ago, Snackbar said:

What is a ‘browned neutral’ 

 

A good reasonably simple explanation of what it is and why you don't want it

 

 

 

Edited by sometimewoodworker

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1 hour ago, wgdanson said:

How do you do that, lick your finger and touch the wire. Whichever one tingles.....that's LIVE!   LOL

My goodness. Never saw things like in the photo? The cheapest are the two screw drivers. Without them I would not do anything with electricity... 

20190520_163433.jpg

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15 minutes ago, Beggar said:

My goodness. Never saw things like in the photo? The cheapest are the two screw drivers. Without them I would not do anything with electricity... 

20190520_163433.jpg

Did you not notice I put LOL after my post. That means it is meant as a JOKE.

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21 minutes ago, wgdanson said:

Did you not notice I put LOL after my post. That means it is meant as a JOKE.

I forgive you 1 time.

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This is getting me worried, and I just checked to find that I do not have a RCBO. Looked on Lazada, Safe T Cut 63 amp jobby Bht 2800. Others of unknown origin Bht 400 ish. Which one do I go for?

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42 minutes ago, xtrnuno41 said:

Main Product

This is a RCD, not for protecting wiring as a fuse, but safety.

It can handle 40 Amps through, but when there is a difference (Amp leakage between the two wires) of 30 mA.

It shuts down. THis is a din rail model, you also have bus systems.

Also you have them in several varieties, like 50 Amps, 63 Amps through.

sadly you refuse to put a pic of your system on this page, so no one can tell what.

 

 Main Product

This is a RCBO, it is included with a circuit breaker. You can see on the device, this one is a 16 Amp B-characteristic (B16) with a 30 mA (0.03 )safety switch (RCD). You also have them with C-characteristic. But B is better, it switches off faster (lower in shortcut power) in case of shortcut.

Of course you have them in many varieties, like B6, B10, B16, B25, B and so on, also the C's. But for home situation better to use B-characteristic switches. Again this one is din rail mounted.

 

 

is rcbo the same as . gfi ?

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1 minute ago, wgdanson said:

This is getting me worried, and I just checked to find that I do not have a RCBO. Looked on Lazada, Safe T Cut 63 amp jobby Bht 2800. Others of unknown origin Bht 400 ish. Which one do I go for?

 

I would go mid range. If you have a DIN mount distribution box, and it has space, you can add a brand name (ABB) RCD for a k Baht or so.

 

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1 minute ago, atyclb said:

is rcbo the same as . gfi ?

 

No, an RCD is the same as a GFI. It has no over-current protection.

 

The problem is they look the same to the untrained eye.

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Just now, Crossy said:
1 minute ago, atyclb said:

is rcbo the same as . gfi ?

 

No, an RCD is the same as a GFI. It has no over-current protection.

 

does a gfi on the water heater line protect against electrocution?  

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23 minutes ago, atyclb said:

does a gfi on the water heater line protect against electrocution?  

 

It will significantly reduce the danger of your dying from direct (grab a live wire) or indirect (faulty heater with no ground) contact, there are no guarantees in this world.

 

The classic 30-30-30 (30V, 30mA, 30ms) rule means that something like 90% of the population will survive (that's why the 25kV final-anode voltage on a CRT TV is limited to 25mA), the old, young or infirm may have a lower tolerance and die anyway 😞

 

An RCD (GFI, ELCB or whatever you want to call it) is no substitute for a decent earth/ground on an appliance (water heater) that needs it. Together they provide a very reliable safety system, each alone is more of a lottery.

 

 

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2 hours ago, sometimewoodworker said:

But that is only for the arcane and weird wiring and electrical used in the North American continent (2 countries) and AFIK no other countries (195 countries) world wide. 

 

Also a borrowed neutral refers to 2 or more circuits that share a neutral, AFIK the US feeds 240v with a single 4 wire circuit PL, PR, N & E that in the distribution panel is required to use a single 2 phase breaker. So this not a case of having a borrowed neutral.

A good reasonably simple explanation of what it is and why you don't want it

 

I don't know why the US came up with split phase (after Edison's DC fiasco) but I wouldn't call it arcane.  By definition the example I gave would be a "borrowed" neutral and you are correct that it is not that case but rather a shared neutral.  In retrospect I should not have mentioned that case as it has no relevance to anything here.  As for US decision to go with split phase I have no idea why.  Maybe it is good for delivering power with minimum cost?  I don't know but that's the way it is.

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