Brexit campaigner Boris Johnson to stand as next Conservative leader

[Chomper Higgot]

5 minutes ago, vogie said:

The losers have never accepted the result, remainers fail to understand the concept of democracy, it's all about me me me. Just look at the idiot outside the Houses of Parliament, loud mouth Steve shouting in into his megaphone so no-one can hear the questions the politicians are being asked. That is how remainers see democracy, mob rule, 'we're not bothered what the country voted for, it's all about what suits us the best.'

I have never once come across a Remain supporter who has claimed that Leave did not win the referendum.

 

Plenty express reasonable concerns over electoral fraud and the part played by foreign governments/organizations and unaccounted foreign funding.

 

But saying Leave did not win? 

 

I’ve never seen that.

 

 

[Edit]

 

Your accusation of mob rule is laughable, a referendum in which the result is anything other than advisory is by definition ‘mob rule’.

[tebee]

3 minutes ago, vogie said:

 

Well certainly not you anyway.

 

The rules were set out before the referendum took place, the ruling was +1 to win, however 1.3 million was the majority, pretty conclusive to most people unless you are a remainer of course.

Nobody is suppressing anyone here, you have to have winners and losers or else it would be a total waste of time having a referendum in the first place.

the problem with that is that it was only going to be +1 to because it was only an advisory referendum.

 

Referendums, if they are to be binding and effect major constitutional changes, need to have a supermajority of 10% or so. There needs to be a clear majority, not just 2%, otherwise  the country ends up split and divided. 

 

It's also very stupid to do expensive changes on the whim of a small majority. Suppose we voted by 51% to start driving on the right, then 5 year later, many people decide they don't like it, we have another referendum and  51% decide they preded driving on the left.

 

Trying to use a majority of 1.3 million to make a change in something as major as leaving the EU is a recipe for creating instability in a country, which is exactly what it has done. 

[stephenterry]

4 minutes ago, vogie said:

The losers have never accepted the result, remainers fail to understand the concept of democracy, it's all about me me me. Just look at the idiot outside the Houses of Parliament, loud mouth Steve shouting in into his megaphone so no-one can hear the questions the politicians are being asked. That is how remainers see democracy, mob rule, 'we're not bothered what the country voted for, it's all about what suits us the best.'

The losers have never accepted the result, remainers fail to understand the concept of democracy, it's all about me me me.

 

Look in the mirror. And for pete's sake google 'democracy' and learn what it really is. Or read my post above. Otherwise how could anyone on here take you seriously? 

[evadgib]

24 minutes ago, tebee said:

the problem with that is that it was only going to be +1 to because it was only an advisory referendum.

 

Referendums, if they are to be binding and effect major constitutional changes, need to have a supermajority of 10% or so. There needs to be a clear majority, not just 2%, otherwise  the country ends up split and divided. 

 

It's also very stupid to do expensive changes on the whim of a small majority. Suppose we voted by 51% to start driving on the right, then 5 year later, many people decide they don't like it, we have another referendum and  51% decide they preded driving on the left.

 

Trying to use a majority of 1.3 million to make a change in something as major as leaving the EU is a recipe for creating instability in a country, which is exactly what it has done. 

All of which is why i feel PR & compulsory voting will replace the current obsolete setup.

This caught my eye yesterday:

And this...

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-australia-48210783/australia-election-fines-donkey-votes-and-democracy-sausages

[Chomper Higgot]

3 minutes ago, evadgib said:

All of which is why i feel PR & compulsory voting will replace the current obsolete setup.

I agree, but I’m not at all sure the reactionaries will like what PR delivers.

[stephenterry]

10 minutes ago, vogie said:

Twisting the facts again, bye.

However, the facts are facts which ever way they're presented. Bye.

[vogie]

1 minute ago, tebee said:

the problem with that is that it was only going to be +1 to because it was only an advisory referendum.

 

Referendums, if they are to be binding and effect major constitutional changes, need to have a supermajority of 10% or so. There needs to be a clear majority, not just 2%, otherwise  the country ends up split and divided. 

 

It's also very stupid to do expensive changes on the whim of a small majority. Suppose we voted by 51% to start driving on the right, then 5 year later, many people decide they don't like it, we have another referendum and  51% decide they preded driving on the left.

 

Trying to use a majority of 1.3 million to make a change in something as major as leaving the EU is a recipe for creating instability in a country, which is exactly what it has done. 

Don't really see your point tebee, you say it was only an advisory referendum, ok I'll go with that, didn't Parliament nearly to a man take the advice of the country and decide to leave the EU by triggering art 50?

Whether you disagree with the rules or not, those were the rules, and I fairly sure should the voting had gone your desired way we wouldn't have heard a peep out of you and your faithfull followers.

[vogie]

9 minutes ago, stephenterry said:

The losers have never accepted the result, remainers fail to understand the concept of democracy, it's all about me me me.

 

Look in the mirror. And for pete's sake google 'democracy' and learn what it really is. Or read my post above. Otherwise how could anyone on here take you seriously? 

If you think people on here take your figures that you produce seriously, you are mistaken. Stop twisting figures because you think it makes your post more credible, it doesn't. If you cannot debate using figures that people associate with the referendum I'm done with you.

[Chomper Higgot]

7 minutes ago, vogie said:

Don't really see your point tebee, you say it was only an advisory referendum, ok I'll go with that, didn't Parliament nearly to a man take the advice of the country and decide to leave the EU by triggering art 50?

Whether you disagree with the rules or not, those were the rules, and I fairly sure should the voting had gone your desired way we wouldn't have heard a peep out of you and your faithfull followers.

So where is the problem?

 

The Government have obtained the lousy deal Remain had predicted and that hardly anyone supports.

 

Now, only because ‘enemies of the people’ put an end to Theresa May’s attempts to govern by executive order, Parliament gets to have a vote on ‘the deal’.

 

’The Deal’ stinks, and rightly Parliament have rejected it.

 

Brexit is a crock.

 

Just like ‘project fear’ said it would be.

[vogie]

Just now, Chomper Higgot said:

So where is the problem?

 

The Government have obtained the lousy deal Remain had predicted and that hardly anyone sports.

 

Now, only because ‘enemies of the people’ put an end to Theresa May’s attempts to govern by executive order, Parliament gets to have a vote on ‘the deal’.

 

’The Deal’ stinks, and rightly Parliament have rejected it.

 

Brexit is a crock.

 

Just like ‘project fear’ said it would be 

New kid on the block now, lets walk.

[stephenterry]

1 minute ago, vogie said:

If you think people on here take your figures that you produce seriously, you are mistaken. Stop twisting figures because you think it makes your post more credible, it doesn't. If you cannot debate using figures that people associate with the referendum I'm done with you.

Well that's good. About time people learnt what democracy is. 

[tebee]

4 minutes ago, vogie said:

Don't really see your point tebee, you say it was only an advisory referendum, ok I'll go with that, didn't Parliament nearly to a man take the advice of the country and decide to leave the EU by triggering art 50?

Whether you disagree with the rules or not, those were the rules, and I fairly sure should the voting had gone your desired way we wouldn't have heard a peep out of you and your faithfull followers.

My point is we don't know how to do referendums in the UK.

 

By having a badly designed one - voting on a concept, rather than a mesure to be implemented and being advisory sometimes and mandatory others - we have only ended causing splits  in the political fabric of the country.

 

if they are done properly referendums are a tool for the good of democracy, done badly, like this one, they destroy it  

[vogie]

3 minutes ago, tebee said:

My point is we don't know how to do referendums in the UK.

 

By having a badly designed one - voting on a concept, rather than a mesure to be implemented and being advisory sometimes and mandatory others - we have only ended causing splits  in the political fabric of the country.

 

if they are done properly referendums are a tool for the good of democracy, done badly, like this one, they destroy it  

But surely the only bad referendums are the ones when you don't get the result you wanted, would you really be crying spilt milk if the result had gone the other way.

[stephenterry]

1 minute ago, tebee said:

My point is we don't know how to do referendums in the UK.

 

By having a badly designed one - voting on a concept, rather than a mesure to be implemented and being advisory sometimes and mandatory others - we have only ended causing splits  in the political fabric of the country.

 

if they are done properly referendums are a tool for the good of democracy, done badly, like this one, they destroy it  

I agree. The ballot paper question was simplified so that Joe Bloggs could read and understand it. What it didn't do was to explain exactly what it would mean. Leaving the EU is what? Leaving the Customs Union, leaving the single market, leaving the ECJ? No, it was solely leaving the EU. TM added all these concepts and slid it through parliament before they realised the implications. IMO, that's the biggest mistake she ever made, because as of now when parliament have come to their senses, it clearly is not beneficial to the populace in any shape or form. 

[evadgib]

7 minutes ago, tebee said:

My point is we don't know how to do referendums in the UK.

 

By having a badly designed one - voting on a concept, rather than a mesure to be implemented and being advisory sometimes and mandatory others - we have only ended causing splits  in the political fabric of the country.

 

if they are done properly referendums are a tool for the good of democracy, done badly, like this one, they destroy it  

That's hardly the fault of the electorate & is one of many factors that will lead to the changes that I believe are inevitable.

[Chomper Higgot]

6 minutes ago, vogie said:

But surely the only bad referendums are the ones when you don't get the result you wanted, would you really be crying spilt milk if the result had gone the other way.

That’s a two edged blade:

 

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/nigel-farage-wants-second-referendum-7985017

[tebee]

7 minutes ago, evadgib said:

That's hardly the fault of the electorate & is one of many factors that will lead to the changes that I believe are inevitable.

Oh I wholeheartedly agree, it's a failing of the political class in this country,.

 

It may come back to destroy politics as we know it, so maybe they will get their just deserts.

[stephenterry]

All I've heard from leavers is to get it done. And then what? Sit twiddling their thumbs whilst the government makes a continuing hash in the transitional period? And what about the UK, in the interim? 

 

Answers on the back of a stamp, is about as much I would expect. 

[tebee]

15 minutes ago, vogie said:

But surely the only bad referendums are the ones when you don't get the result you wanted, would you really be crying spilt milk if the result had gone the other way.

Bad referendums create more uncertainty, rather than clarifying the wishes of the electorate.

 

Here we have exactly that - everyone know what their own leave vote ment - problem is not everyone concept of that is the same. If you going to have a vote on something, you need to vote on a specific proposal, not. a woolly concept that is open to interpretation.

 

Otherwise you end up with brexit means brexit  - and we all know that that means don't we ? 

[stephenterry]

2 minutes ago, tebee said:

Oh I wholeheartedly agree, it's a failing of the political class in this country,.

 

It may come back to destroy politics as we know it, so maybe they will get their just deserts.

Don't think the Tory party is invincible. In certain circumstances, historically speaking, they could be defunct like the Liberal party became by 1918. Current thinking is why the Tories need to get rid of May. 

[vogie]

4 minutes ago, tebee said:

Bad referendums create more uncertainty, rather than clarifying the wishes of the electorate.

 

Here we have exactly that - everyone know what their own leave vote ment - problem is not everyone concept of that is the same. If you going to have a vote on something, you need to vote on a specific proposal, not. a woolly concept that is open to interpretation.

 

Otherwise you end up with brexit means brexit  - and we all know that that means don't we ? 

I really don't buy into that argument that we need a super majority, we could have very high majority to leave and we would still remain. But we are were we are, I can only repeat that those were the rules on the day, everybody seemed happy with the rules including parliament, the rules of a referendum needs sorting out before the occasion takes place and not after.

 

[sammieuk1]

350 million bus drivers will vote for him after they get their wheels back????

[Loiner]

3 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Remind me, what was it Farage had to say about a 52:48 result?

 

Democracy is a process, it did not come to a halt on the morning of the referendum and result.

 

Farage told the truth - he wouldn't accept a close result.
Remainer MPs lied and continue to lie, saying they would respect the result. The process is simply 1) Vote; 2) Count the votes to find the winner; 3) Action the winning result. Anything less is Cheating/European - you choose which one.

[Chomper Higgot]

2 minutes ago, Loiner said:

Farage told the truth - he wouldn't accept a close result.
Remainer MPs lied and continue to lie, saying they would respect the result. The process is simply 1) Vote; 2) Count the votes to find the winner; 3) Action the winning result. Anything less is Cheating/European - you choose which one.

Except it was never that simple.

[Loiner]

1 hour ago, sammieuk1 said:

350 million bus drivers will vote for him after they get their wheels back????

The Remainers on the bus go on and on, on and on, on and on.

The Remainers on the bus go on and on, all <deleted>' day long. Have none of you learned anything yet? The sticker didn't matter.

[Nanglon]

Yes …. we've learned people are happy to chundle along and risk disaster for a short while / medium term over roughly a mere 1.2% of the country's expenditure ……. there are many other things to bleat about than the EU !!

 

 

[Loiner]

5 minutes ago, Nanglon said:

Yes …. we've learned people are happy to chundle along and risk disaster for a short while / medium term over roughly a mere 1.2% of the country's expenditure ……. there are many other things to bleat about than the EU !!

 

 

 

You haven't learned that it is not only about the EU contribution have you?

[Nanglon]

I was answering your post about the 350 million bus …...

 

Unbelievably I have other opinions too …… but I'm not a wabble-wouser

[Loiner]

11 minutes ago, Nanglon said:

I was answering your post about the 350 million bus …...

 

Unbelievably I have other opinions too …… but I'm not a wabble-wouser

The bus and its' sticker didn't and still doesn't matter. Some of you Wemainers won't wet it go though.

[Baerboxer]

 

Strong Policing - yeah right Boris! Cameron's Tory government's Home Secretary, a certain Mrs. May, cut the police drastically, and famously told them they'd have to all work harder to make up for the reduced numbers!

 

Just when people thought it couldn't get any worse. A proven liar and moron as a non GE elected PM.