Change Retirement Visa to Family Visa?

[elektrified]

Could some kind soul point me to some reading on what is involved in changing visas? Even the links on the government website seem to go to spam or are outdated.

 

I have an extension of stay based on retirement which expires 10 July 2019. I have the income letter dated 20 December 2018 from the U.S. Consulate, and I am currently working on my accounting of finances for the last year trying to provide the proof of the 65K. In the past it was not a problem taking the proof with me (although I was never asked). But this year, unfortunately just as the new rule is imposed, I may fall short on the proof for a number of reasons. 

 

I have a Thai wife and I have a Thai child. So in case my extension is denied on or before 20 June 2019 when I go to C.M. Immigration, I need a back-up plan. The family visa seems to be a good option

 

Thank you in advance for any advice.

[pagallim]

If you're currently on a Non-Imm O Visa/extension for retirement, it's relatively straight forward to change to a Marriage visa for your next extension.    The obvious differences are in the financial requirements, lesser in the case of marriage.   I think the best option would be to go and speak to the people at the IO in Chiang Mai, and get their exact requirements.

 

Here is a detailed breakdown of requirements from the Phuket Immigration Volunteers, which has been completely accurate when I recently did exactly the same thing (Retirement to Marriage):

 

http://piv-phuket.com/long-stay-extensions/marriage-m/

 

However, as we are all increasingly aware, there can be different interpretations and requirement between Immigration Offices and even individual officers, so whilst it's relevant in my area, it may not be in yours.   I'll reiterate, get to your local Immigration Office as soon as possible, and talk to the officers there.   Do not leave it until the last minute.

[Kenny202]

I did this last year. Firstly as advised before talk with your office first. Definitely worth a initial fact finding mission. They strongly advised me against going to the family visa during the whole process citing it was a lot more work (for them). I have seen reports here in some offices actually refusing to do it as with the new retirement financial requirements a lot of people wanting to change. I mean legally I can't see how they can refuse but if they do what are you going to do?

 

When you say family I assume you mean a child? You do understand a birth certificate with your name on it not enough, even if you are still living with the child's mother. You need to either be married to your spouse or go through the courts and do the legitimacy process. A whole other can of worms.

 

The actual process itself is...well not a nightmare but a lot of hurdles to jump through. You need 400k in the bank. My understanding only on the day of application but my IO insisted on 2 months prior to applying. Once you complete everything the details are sent to another office and final approval of your visa a further 4 weeks or so. Some offices insist your 400k stay in the bank until you get full final approval.

 

I ended up doing at least 4 trips to immigration going back and forth with different things they didn't ask for initially or the previous visit. I had to provide at least 3 (very specific) photos of me with my son in front of his bed, in front of my home (showing address) and in the living room. Needed a letter from the bank stating funds the day of application and copies of my passbook showing 400k in 2 months prior. After doing all that, and not being advised previously they wanted 3 people from my moo baan (not relatives etc) to guarantee me. This was the difficult part for me. Initially they wanted photos of me with these three people in same poses as me. Front home, bedroom etc. You try explaining that to a suspicious Thai. After I did all that , the mountains of extra paperwork signed in triplicate, and feeling confident, they told me I needed the three Thai people to accompany me to immigration for an interview! I had to take my Thai son with me on each visit also. In the end only 1 of the Thai people posed for photos (the other 2 were shy) and one came for the interview. The lady who came with me for the interview said not to worry she would sort them out. I don't know what she said but it was all ok after an hour interview. If I had known all this upfront I probably wouldn't have gone through with it to be honest but in hindsight glad I did what with the new Retirement rules. The worst part for me was dragging other people along.

 

Anyway, in the end waited the month and received the visa stamp ok. They tell me when I re apply this year no need for people to guarantee. Just do all the paperwork etc. 

 

Talk to your office. Firstly make sure they will do it for you. Try and get as much info as you can re what is required. Don't expect it done in a couple of trips though and I hope you live close to your IO. 

 

What really got me is that you would think a family or child visa would be the most legitimate reason for living here. But it is the hardest visa to obtain? Cash rules in Thailand. In all honesty if you have plenty of money and qualify for retirement I wouldn't bother. Remember you need 3 people from your moo bann....not anyone. If you are not legitimised there are other visas you can obtain for the parent of a Thai child just requiring a birth certificate with your name on it, 

[elektrified]

39 minutes ago, Kenny202 said:

I did this last year. Firstly as advised before talk with your office first. Definitely worth a initial fact finding mission. They strongly advised me against going to the family visa during the whole process citing it was a lot more work (for them). I have seen reports here in some offices actually refusing to do it as with the new retirement financial requirements a lot of people wanting to change. I mean legally I can't see how they can refuse but if they do what 

 

 

 

 

Hi Kenny, thanks for your reply. It looks quite easy according to this http://www.thaiembassy.org/phnompenh/en/services/7962/86346-Non-Immigrant-Visa-"O"-(Thai-Family).html

Edited May 17, 2019 by elektrified

[elektrified]

So, just to bump this thread up as I'm really open for all options in terms of a new visa in case my retirement extension is denied. It could be the family visa as I have a dependent child so that seems the most logical, or education visa for a year (never too old to learn).

 

I've been reading some of the currently popular threads and in the case of one member who will not be able to prove the 65K, several members advised him/her to get a double-entry tourist visa for the time being. Is it possible for someone to get a double-entry tourist visa after they had a O-A visa for 10 years (as in my case)? if so, where? I remember a number of years ago, an American friend of mine who lived in Bangkok for 15 years, had a wife and 2 kids, and had a business visa, fell on difficult times and his business failed. He could not renew his work permit, visa, etc. so he went to Vientiane, Laos to apply for a double-entry tourist visa and they flat out told him that he "was not a tourist", that he had lived in Thailand 15 years, had a business, etc. They stamped a "denied" in his passport and he left Vientiane out the cost of the visa application.  I really don't want to have problems like that.

 

As my extension of stay is up 10 July, I really want to get a back up plan in order in case my retirement extension is denied. This option, which is a family visa from the Royal Thai Embassy in Phnom Penh, Cambodia looks fairly straightforward.  But I am not clear if I qualify for or if it for residents of Cambodia only? http://www.thaiembassy.org/phnompenh/en/services/7962/86346-Non-Immigrant-Visa-"O"-(Thai-Family).html

 

The education visa looks like a straightforward process, pay the money to the school, get the letter, leave Thailand, go to ????Consulate, come back in with the new ED visa.

 

Any way thanks again for any advice.

 

[ubonjoe]

24 minutes ago, elektrified said:

So, just to bump this thread up as I'm really open for all options in terms of a new visa in case my retirement extension is denied. It could be the family visa as I have a dependent child so that seems the most logical,

You could change to a extension of stay based upon marriage. No need to get a new visa.

You would need 400k baht in a Thai bank in your name only for 2 months or proof of 40k baht income.

Apply early for the extension based upon retirement and then if there was problem with your income not being enough you could apply for the extension based upon marriage.

Since you have a income affidavit you should not have a problem proving your income. You do not need to show the money coming into the country.

[elektrified]

2 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

You could change to a extension of stay based upon marriage. No need to get a new visa.

You would need 400k baht in a Thai bank in your name only for 2 months or proof of 40k baht income.

Apply early for the extension based upon retirement and then if there was problem with your income not being enough you could apply for the extension based upon marriage.

Since you have a income affidavit you should not have a problem proving your income. You do not need to show the money coming into the country.

Thank you for your reply ubonjoe. It is very encouraging news. Of course I am going to try the best I can to bring as much proof as possible in the event I am asked to provide proof. If I fall short then hopefully my IO in C.M. (who is a very nice and reasonable person, and whom I have a good relationship with) will show some leniency based on the order of 26/12/2018 (No. 0029.173/Wor 4950).

 

Should that fail, then the 40K will not be a problem at all for the marriage visa.

 

Just curious, my extension is up on 10 July. How many days in advance can I go to Immigration to apply for my extension (to leave time for a back-up plan)? Thank you again.

[ubonjoe]

1 minute ago, elektrified said:

Just curious, my extension is up on 10 July. How many days in advance can I go to Immigration to apply for my extension (to leave time for a back-up plan)?

Thirty days.

[billsmart]

You don't have to "change" your OA visa. You just have to use the marriage requirements to get your next extension. I have an OA and I've switched to extending it based on marriage for a couple of years, and then back to retirement. The money requirements for a retirement is more, but there is a lot more paperwork involved in extending based on marriage.

[Kenny202]

If you are looking for a stop gap solution there is a 3 month parental visa available from Savanahket. You extend this an extra 2 months in Thailand for a total of 5 months. All that is required is the child's birth cert with you named as the father and a signed copy of the child's mothers Tabien Baan and ID card. Apparently you can keep doing this as long as you like meaning you need to leave the country and return every 5 months. Haven't looked into it fully yet but maybe more cost effective than having a large amount of money sitting in the bank here not earning interest (better off invested back home) and as a bonus I get an excuse to go for a little trip every 5 months. 

[rawhod]

3 hours ago, elektrified said:

3 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

Thirty days.

Just curious, my extension is up on 10 July. How many days in advance can I go to Immigration to apply for my extension (to leave time for a back-up plan)? Thank you again.

I am in the same situation.

Extension due for renewal on 9 July 2019.

 

Have a UK Embassy Income letter from late Dec 2018, have >65,000 Baht per month transfered into my account from UK since Jan 2019 and have a backup 40,000 Baht in an account since Feb 2019.

 

!st attempt will be income letter... If this fails

2nd attempt will be 65,000 per month since Jan, (with a BBank 6 month statement)...if this fails

3rd attempt will be change to Married Visa extension.

 

If I read correctly, you are in Chiang Mai. If so you can apply 45 days before your extension is due.

I will be there on Monday 27 May, (which will be 43 days for me ) for my 1st attempt, and if necessary my 2nd attempt.

Keeping my fingers crossed...

[elektrified]

2 hours ago, rawhod said:

I am in the same situation.

Extension due for renewal on 9 July 2019.

 

Have a UK Embassy Income letter from late Dec 2018, have >65,000 Baht per month transfered into my account from UK since Jan 2019 and have a backup 40,000 Baht in an account since Feb 2019.

 

!st attempt will be income letter... If this fails

2nd attempt will be 65,000 per month since Jan, (with a BBank 6 month statement)...if this fails

3rd attempt will be change to Married Visa extension.

 

If I read correctly, you are in Chiang Mai. If so you can apply 45 days before your extension is due.

I will be there on Monday 27 May, (which will be 43 days for me ) for my 1st attempt, and if necessary my 2nd attempt.

Keeping my fingers crossed...

From what I've read and spoken with others today, our letters are all we will need. No further questions. Last time, next time it will be different. Don't worry.

[Thingamabob]

Why would anyone change to marriage from retirement ? Latter much less complicated.

[yodsak]

Less money required 

[elektrified]

On 5/18/2019 at 10:58 AM, ubonjoe said:

You could change to a extension of stay based upon marriage. No need to get a new visa.

You would need 400k baht in a Thai bank in your name only for 2 months or proof of 40k baht income.

Apply early for the extension based upon retirement and then if there was problem with your income not being enough you could apply for the extension based upon marriage.

Since you have a income affidavit you should not have a problem proving your income. You do not need to show the money coming into the country.

So just to follow up on this thread (and a big thank you to ubonjoe for your advice), I decided to go ahead and try to apply for my retirement extension since I already had the U.S. Consulate letter and figured I had nothing to lose. I had 20 days so if it was denied I could go ahead with plan "B".  When my queue was called, I presented my documents. The IO immediately took the position that they no longer accept consulate letters, but if so, one must have proof. I produced a tax document but she didn't know what it was. So I provided Kasikorn statements showing 260K THB deposited into my account in March, 120K in April, 80K in May....etc. but she wasn't impressed, saying that they prefer to see 65K each month, preferably on the same day of the month. No lump sum deposits. (I don't really get this mentality. Money is money.) She studied my statements pointing out cash withdrawals often?? At that point I decided to just relax and spoke to her in Thai very politely assuring her that the letter can be used this last time. She repeatedly said "chai dai" but continued to lecture me like a naughty school boy. At that point my wife came inside and joined the conversation. She is an expert in winning the trust of government employees. After a while the IO said that she liked us, that we were polite, and felt comfortable that I had the funds and she would accept the consulate letter, but that she would have to argue my case to her boss and I only had a 50% chance. What surprised us was that when she went in to see her boss, that she was gone for about 20-25 minutes. She came out, called us, and said that after some discussion that she had convinced her boss to grant the extension, but she again proceeded to continue lecturing me like a naughty school boy! So, I'm good for another year.

 

So anyone still using the consulate letter the next 10 days should be prepared to offer proof (Chiang Mai).

 

Note that I did see an American guy at the counter next to me who also had a consulate letter in his hand. He and his "entourage" were called back 3 or 4 times and his IO also was in to see the boss for quite some time. My wife overheard one of the ladies with him pleading with the IO to reconsider his position to which he seemed unwilling to respond. So it appeared - especially by the look on the American guys face - that his extension was denied.

Edited June 21, 2019 by elektrified