The week that was in Thailand news: Throwing the toys out of the pram

[user46546545]

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

1) As previously stated by many, white folk aren't the foreigners who didn't pay their hospital bills.

2) 80% of Thais have never paid income tax.

3) If you've been earning and paying tax in Thailand, why aren't you in the Thai SS scheme? 

Bingo

[TPI]

4 hours ago, TheHangingJudge said:

The sad truth is it’s all true.

Well done.

Agreed, and while it's good to have the occasional rant don't let it take the "sunshine" out of your  life!

[Landforsalechiangmai]

57 minutes ago, khunken said:

Why oh why can't the health ministry get health insurers to provide plans that are targeted to the cost of public hospital treatment which I am happy to use and give long-stay expats an affordable alternative?

Even better.  Why can't this government stop pretending that ex pats are the same as tourists and figure out a way for us to join the national health plan.

[Stevemercer]

I'm surprised that Rooster did not pick up on the statistics offered by the government to justify imposing compulsory insurance on long term OA retirees. In fact, I'm not sure Rooster has thought all this through. He accuses others of flying off the handle, but then does the same.

 

Apparently there are 38 million long term visas of this type issued, implying that over half of the population in Thailand are foreigners. So obviously the statistics presented are just rubbish.

 

One suspects that this number includes all tourist visitations. In fact, most skipped medical bills are from tourists crashing their hired scooters, getting run over by speed boats, breaking legs, getting drowned in boat accidents etc. They get treated, discharged and go home (whether alive or dead) without paying their bills. The break down by country of origin shows that most tourists not paying their hospital bills are Chinese.

 

So why doesn't the government require compulsory medical insurance for tourists who rack up most of the bill (like most countries)? Answer - it might discourage tourists particularly the Chinese.

 

So they go for an easier option that won't really address the massive hospital bills incurred by tourists.

 

Why demand compulsory health insurance from 12 month retirees applying from overseas who make up a tiny subset of all visas issued. It is just hype that such people never pay their hospital bills. If you are living in Thailand you have no choice if you want to stay here! In my circle I don't know any expats who have not paid their hospital bills.

 

[Jane Dough]

2 hours ago, portly said:

Wonderful; 

An utterly wonderful read   

 

I wouldn't decribe it as a rant exactly, rather more like an informed , very intelligent and unbiased report.

 

Thanks

Thanks. Can I hire you as my Public Relations' agent?

 

Look back in the archives for the 163 previous TWTW's. The odd one may afford some amusement and a few pearls of wisdom.  

 

Rooster

 

 

 

 

[potless]

7 minutes ago, Stevemercer said:

 

Apparently there are 38 million long term visas of this type issued, implying that over half of the population in Thailand are foreigners. So obviously the statistics presented are just rubbish.

Trying to get accurate figures for anything here seems to be impossible. Some posters suggest that many of the non payers are foreign workers from neighbouring countries. If that is sometimes the case then make their employers pay.

 

 

 

[eddysmit]

4 hours ago, Guderian said:

Never mind the tens of thousands, or even hundreds of thousands of Baht that many expats retired here plough into the local economy in many ways every year, from supporting their Thai family to using Thai tradespeople, long-term expats invariably pay large amounts of tax here. It's just that most of it is indirect taxation, such as VAT and excise duty on alcohol or cigarettes, rather than direct taxes paid on employment income. What's the difference, at the end of the day it's all money in the bank so that the big children can buy some submarines or tanks to play with. Or does Rooster think that the thousands of Baht the typical retiree pays in VAT and excise duty every month is somehow inferior to the income tax he pays, so that he's fully entitled to Thai state care but nobody else is? Money is money, after all, and nowhere should that be truer than in Thailand.

Well said, and Rooster did have an overlong, bitter rant, must have got some bad news.

[Odysseus123]

7 minutes ago, potless said:

Trying to get accurate figures for anything here seems to be impossible. Some posters suggest that many of the non payers are foreign workers from neighbouring countries. If that is sometimes the case then make their employers pay.

 

 

 

Goodness me..it;s getting out of control.

A little honesty for a change..and not blatant mongerism.

 

So ..let us repeat -THERE IS VERY LITTLE DEBT ACCRUED TO 'FARANG' in the hospital system.

 

Remember the golden rule "It is better to die on your feet than graaping on your belly"

 

Who really wants to put up up with this nonsense?

[eddysmit]

17 minutes ago, Stevemercer said:

I'm surprised that Rooster did not pick up on the statistics offered by the government to justify imposing compulsory insurance on long term OA retirees. In fact, I'm not sure Rooster has thought all this through. He accuses others of flying off the handle, but then does the same.

 

Apparently there are 38 million long term visas of this type issued, implying that over half of the population in Thailand are foreigners. So obviously the statistics presented are just rubbish.

 

One suspects that this number includes all tourist visitations. In fact, most skipped medical bills are from tourists crashing their hired scooters, getting run over by speed boats, breaking legs, getting drowned in boat accidents etc. They get treated, discharged and go home (whether alive or dead) without paying their bills. The break down by country of origin shows that most tourists not paying their hospital bills are Chinese.

 

So why doesn't the government require compulsory medical insurance for tourists who rack up most of the bill (like most countries)? Answer - it might discourage tourists particularly the Chinese.

 

So they go for an easier option that won't really address the massive hospital bills incurred by tourists.

 

Why demand compulsory health insurance from 12 month retirees applying from overseas who make up a tiny subset of all visas issued. It is just hype that such people never pay their hospital bills. If you are living in Thailand you have no choice if you want to stay here! In my circle I don't know any expats who have not paid their hospital bills.

 

Another good honest comment, like you, after many years of living here and before that many years of one month holidays, I have yet to meet a foreigner or be told of one that has skipped paying their bills, of course, the people I mix with are Europeans, never the Chinese or people from neighbouring countries.

[eddysmit]

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

1) As previously stated by many, white folk aren't the foreigners who didn't pay their hospital bills.

2) 80% of Thais have never paid income tax.

3) If you've been earning and paying tax in Thailand, why aren't you in the Thai SS scheme? 

Well said.

[Jane Dough]

13 minutes ago, eddysmit said:

Well said, and Rooster did have an overlong, bitter rant, must have got some bad news.

Ha...no bad news...except that Monday is a school holiday....

 

But if Spurs lose the CL final to Liverpool....watch out!

 

Rooster

[potless]

12 minutes ago, eddysmit said:

So why doesn't the government require compulsory medical insurance for tourists who rack up most of the bill (like most countries)? Answer - it might discourage tourists particularly the Chinese.

I remember in the U.K. decades ago that if you booked a package tour with a travel agent that insurance was compulsory or you couldnt go. Naturally, the travel agent would offer some sort of policy that you would buy for convenience and you would just accept it as part of the cost. Thai gov. could make the en masse tour operators take responsibility. The O/A visa applicants are the wrong place to start.

[sambum]

1 hour ago, khunken said:

Some good stuff & some bad. As one who didn't make a comment about the health annoucement and who has paid for every hospital visit, both private & public, I totally disagree with Roosters comments on that subject.

His empoyer's (The Nation) article on the number  of long-stay expats (32 million) was totally incomprehensible and the other article from one of the ministries about long-stay expats not paying for treatment in public hospitals lookesdlike it was pulled out of someone's ass.

I strongly suggest that it's tourists rather than long-stay expats that are the main culprits for non-payment.

Having paid almost B90,000 to a health insurance company for 2 years for the privilage of them denying paying for a small treatment, I stopped that rort. Currently the 'recommended' insurers quote B100,000 plus (those that even would insure me), I will not be extorted again.

Why oh why can't the health ministry get health insurers to provide plans that are targeted to the cost of public hospital treatment which I am happy to use and give long-stay expats an affordable alternative?

Correct! In Thailand, for expats, the cost of health insurance, and the cost of treatment at private hospitals go hand in hand with the demand that (for me) a rather large amount of money has to be on deposit in a THAI bank.

 

Just as a matter of interest, does anybody have a breakdown of the numbers of expats and tourists who have "skipped" paying their bills? I would imagine that the latter far outweighs the former!

 

Ever feel like you're not really appreciated?

[zyphodb]

7 hours ago, Nobbie49 said:

That is only until you're 55 AND if you are not a director of the company you would claim ss under.  Worse: if you happen to be a director your wife, Thai or not, is not entitled to any ss service either.

Well I know an ex English teacher who is in his late sixties who's still paying into & claiming from Thai SS so I don't know where you got that from.....

[zyphodb]

And congrats BTW Rooster, for having managed to write a rant that has got over 3 pages of comments to it before Sunday is over. Something of a record in recent times anyway I'd say....

 

[Jane Dough]

19 minutes ago, zyphodb said:

And congrats BTW Rooster, for having managed to write a rant that has got over 3 pages of comments to it before Sunday is over. Something of a record in recent times anyway I'd say....

 

Generally speaking the column is not written to particularly provoke a reaction and is not for clicks. I've got ten stories a day in the newsletter to aim for that and I am thrilled when a good angle or a well written piece hits the right note Monday to Saturday.

 

However, I am heartened if people find TWTW interesting or insightful. If they find it worth reading. Even better if they occasionally find it funny and/or entertaining. That is harder to achieve. I am also glad to have built up a readership that I try to be loyal to without pandering. 

 

Sincerely and thanks for your interest. 

 

Rooster

[GarryP]

1 hour ago, zyphodb said:

Well I know an ex English teacher who is in his late sixties who's still paying into & claiming from Thai SS so I don't know where you got that from.....

The thing is that not many realize they can continue paying in after retirement to retain healthcare coverage. As a result, upon retirement they take their lump sum and think nothing more of it. As someone coming up to retirement in a few years, I will thumb my nose at the pension pay off and continue paying to keep myself covered.

 

BTW school teachers are among the few for whom their employer does not need to pay into the SS scheme. I thought a friend was talking rubbish on this and using it as an excuse for not paying SS, but after investigation, found out it is true.

[CanuckThai]

I don't much like your tone young man.  No computer or phone for you, for the night.  Off to your hammock, and not a peep!

[Dumbastheycome]

Strangely  contradictory !

[rocketdave]

I do have a few million Baht in the bank. 

I have been here, with a few working away breaks for 33 years.

I am now 70 with type 2 diabetes and hypertension ( those of my age who don't are the exception.)

I have been asked to pay a premium of 90% of the cover for my medical insurance.

If I can afford to pay the 90% every year then why not just pay the bill if and when I need treatment.

If this is enforced I'm not going to be made a mug of so I will be off, like many others in the same predicament.

Thai banks prepare to hand back many 800,000 Bahts!

[jacko45k]

16 hours ago, potless said:

Trying to get accurate figures for anything here seems to be impossible. Some posters suggest that many of the non payers are foreign workers from neighbouring countries. If that is sometimes the case then make their employers pay.

 

 

 

Compulsory Health Cover for all foreign workers. I seem to recall my company supplied it to me while in Saudi. Doubt the Cambodians get as well paid as I did though.

[jacko45k]

16 hours ago, eddysmit said:

Another good honest comment, like you, after many years of living here and before that many years of one month holidays, I have yet to meet a foreigner or be told of one that has skipped paying their bills, of course, the people I mix with are Europeans, never the Chinese or people from neighbouring countries.

Well I have heard of a couple, one was admitted and treated, both he and the hospital thinking he had good insurance. Sadly the insurance company didn't agree and the bill was sizeable.

I have certainly heard of cases where people were treated and allowed to accrue substantial bills, even checked but owing money, quite a bit of signing required. Not everyone used to keep chunks of money in the Thai bank.... (although we do now!)

I just wonder how big is this issues, most cases publicized seem to be tourist accidents. 

[BritManToo]

16 hours ago, Jane Dough said:

Generally speaking the column is not written to particularly provoke a reaction and is not for clicks. I've got ten stories a day in the newsletter to aim for that and I am thrilled when a good angle or a well written piece hits the right note Monday to Saturday.

 

However, I am heartened if people find TWTW interesting or insightful. If they find it worth reading. Even better if they occasionally find it funny and/or entertaining. That is harder to achieve. I am also glad to have built up a readership that I try to be loyal to without pandering. 

 

Sincerely and thanks for your interest. 

 

Rooster

I thought your rant against older western people was a disgrace.

The fact you're lived and worked here so long without joining the SS health scheme says more about you than your rant. You appear not to be the honest hard working expat that you claim to be.

[Odysseus123]

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

I thought your rant against older western people was a disgrace.

The fact you're lived and worked here so long without joining the SS health scheme says more about you than your rant. You appear not to be the honest hard working expat that you claim to be.

Elderly expats seem to be an easy target these days.

What with battling with their depreciating currencies..often with health and medical insurance issues..an immigration dep't doing its HAL 9000 thing and getting bombed from a great height by the "farang" loathers-

 

Only to be further insulted by preposterous propaganda claims on behalf of a Gov't which couldn't organize a booze up in a brewery on a hot and thirsty day.

[jacko45k]

Just now, Odysseus123 said:

Elderly expats seem to be an easy target these days.

It would appear so. But before we are obliged to move on, we need to be bled dry. 

[GarryP]

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

I thought your rant against older western people was a disgrace.

The fact you're lived and worked here so long without joining the SS health scheme says more about you than your rant. You appear not to be the honest hard working expat that you claim to be.

Private schools are exempt from the social security scheme. As such, likely that he was never covered. As I mentioned earlier in the thread, I thought a friend was talking rubbish on this and using it as an excuse for not paying SS, but after investigation, confirmed it is true. He really wanted to join the scheme as he is in his fifties and wanted the health insurance benefits when he retires but as he works at a private school there is nothing he can do. Section 4 of the Social Security Act.

 

Section 4. This Act shall not apply to......... (4) teachers or headmasters of private schools under the law on private schools;

 

You cannot buy your own way in.

•  

[BritManToo]

5 minutes ago, GarryP said:

Private schools are exempt from the social security scheme. As such, likely that he was never covered. As I mentioned earlier in the thread, I thought a friend was talking rubbish on this and using it as an excuse for not paying SS, but after investigation, confirmed it is true. He really wanted to join the scheme as he is in his fifties and wanted the health insurance benefits when he retires but as he works at a private school there is nothing he can do. You cannot buy your own way in.

•  

Can't say I have much respect for foreign teachers working in Thailand.

(As a qualified teacher in the UK)

If they were any good they wouldn't be working here.

[Jane Dough]

 

  1 hour ago, GarryP said:

Private schools are exempt from the social security scheme. As such, likely that he was never covered. As I mentioned earlier in the thread, I thought a friend was talking rubbish on this and using it as an excuse for not paying SS, but after investigation, confirmed it is true. He really wanted to join the scheme as he is in his fifties and wanted the health insurance benefits when he retires but as he works at a private school there is nothing he can do. You cannot buy your own way in.

 

 

 

Thank you GarryP. Yes, I found all that out when I retired after a 20 year career as a teacher in Thailand. Which is why I have this lump sum to self insure myself should the need arise. 

 

Incidentally, I worked with hundreds and hundreds of highly professional, dedicated and innovative teachers from the UK who I was proud to join. Many of them thanked the day they came to Thailand as the children in the UK had been so disrespectful and the authorities (eg OFSTED) so overbearing. A stark contrast to their lives at the many excellent international schools in the Kingdom. 

 

Some people are just jealous and frustrated. And they never know when to stop digging. And they call themselves teachers. Bless. 

 

Regards,

 

Rooster

[brewsterbudgen]

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

Can't say I have much respect for foreign teachers working in Thailand.

(As a qualified teacher in the UK)

If they were any good they wouldn't be working here.

TEFL/TESOL work is very poorly paid in the UK, and has exactly the same requirements as in Thailand, although a decent TEFL/TESOL qualification is generally more important than a degree. Most UK jobs are seasonal or part-time, whereas in Thailand the work is year-round (and the weather is better).

[sambum]

11 hours ago, jacko45k said:

Well I have heard of a couple, one was admitted and treated, both he and the hospital thinking he had good insurance. Sadly the insurance company didn't agree and the bill was sizeable.

I have certainly heard of cases where people were treated and allowed to accrue substantial bills, even checked but owing money, quite a bit of signing required. Not everyone used to keep chunks of money in the Thai bank.... (although we do now!)

I just wonder how big is this issues, most cases publicized seem to be tourist accidents. 

"most cases publicized seem to be tourist accidents."

 

Nail - head!