No sewing please, we're sex workers: Thai prostitutes battle stigma

[RandolphGB]

Work seven days a week for minimum wage and be looked down on by your fellow citizens or work for a couple of hours each night for 100k a month fo,  keep face in the village with a new house, wear nice clothes and have nice things, and be respected by society. 

 

Tough choice...

[LongTang]

24 minutes ago, RandolphGB said:

Work seven days a week for minimum wage and be looked down on by your fellow citizens or work for a couple of hours each night for 100k a month fo,  keep face in the village with a new house, wear nice clothes and have nice things, and be respected by society. 

 

Tough choice...

 

Cynicism aside, Don't forget being able to send your children to receive higher education so they can avoid the life you had..

[the guest]

Selling sex is the oldest profession in the books. No matter what legislation you put in place, it will still thrive, human nature of course !

[Mac98]

8 hours ago, ezzra said:

Strange rehabilitation methods to allow the bar girls to own and operate a bar, so with this wisdom, will you advise a drug addicts to cultivate or produce their own cannabis and meth? of get alcoholics to set up a distillery as long as the keep good hours and the profits? strange indeed...

yes, they need to be rehabilitated into somebody's chicken factory, plucking for 325b a day rather than ... (you can finish that thought).

[Mac98]

4 hours ago, jak2002003 said:

The women are 'forced' to do that job?  

 

 

no, they are 'forced' to hide in fear from prosecution under a law passed by some bible thumping politico running for higher office when he isn't chasing little boys. 

[baansgr]

124,000 in Thailand.....there is that many in BKK alone. Look anywhere, include Karaokes, freelancers, massage shops, Thailand has close to 3 million sex workers. Females between age 18-45 that makes one in ten Thai women are hookers.

[sanemax]

I have never understood what is so special about that bar , nearly all Thai owner girly bars are owned by ex bar girls .

  From the photos on the wall in that bar , the clientele seems to be 30 something Western lesbians and right on lefty guys who want to see the seedier side of Thai life , but its against their principles to visit girly bars .

    There is also a go-go pole in there , I suppose for girls to put on a bit of a show after a few drinks .

  Its the Western mentality of "rescuing" girls from a life of depravity , the reality is that the girls work in bars because they want to and they dont want to be "rescued" .

   All the photos on the wall seem to be from 15 years ago and now the bar is only open two nights a week

[jingjai9]

I think one problem for Thailand and other countries is falling under the spell of the US.  There is significant human trafficking in the US and rough street prostitution as well. The article states:

  "The U.S. State Department recognized Thailand’s “significant efforts” to eliminate trafficking with a new task force, and more prosecutions and convictions, by upgrading it to Tier 2 in its latest Trafficking in Persons report."

 

It sounds like father has said, "You are a good boy, we will raise you allowance."

 

Why oh why does the US consider itself morally superior constantly cajoling countries around the world to approach problems American style: arrest, arrest, arrest, jail, jail, jail, until we get 'em all.

 

Perhaps there is time for Thailand to turn the tide. The US war on drugs which arguably ruined more lives than it saved is finally being recognized as a failed effort. Hopefully the same can be done with the sex industry. Thailand should be Thailand. Prositution and the sex industry exist in Thailand in their prsent form as part of Thai culture. For good or bad, it is the way it is. Problems arise when foreign countires try to use their political power to impose their values on others. As the famous historian William Appleman Williams wrote years ago and I paraphrase: America never truly became international, but instead carried on as a supra-national state. Rather than engaging other countires as peers, America instead has imposed its will on other nations and alliances with the goal of making them like us. 

 

Any effort to view prostitution by means other than courts and incarceration is welcome news. If Thailand wants to legalize prostitution and set a legal age let them do so outside the shadow of the US. Look what the US did to cannabis for nearly one century, demonized it and perhaps snuffed out research for this potentially useful substance for decades in the process. Let's hope for a happy ending.

[hotchilli]

10 hours ago, rooster59 said:

There are 123,530 sex workers in Thailand,

I think that figure is missing a "a zero" at the end and thats still conservative.

[soalbundy]

5 hours ago, wwest5829 said:

Workers collectively owning the business? Smacks of socialism, profit sharing schemes, unionization and the like. Downright anti capitalist model.

Indeed, a bunch of communists, Prayut won't stand for it, the fabric of the nation could be torn asunder.

[Lacessit]

42 minutes ago, jingjai9 said:

I think one problem for Thailand and other countries is falling under the spell of the US.  There is significant human trafficking in the US and rough street prostitution as well. The article states:

  "The U.S. State Department recognized Thailand’s “significant efforts” to eliminate trafficking with a new task force, and more prosecutions and convictions, by upgrading it to Tier 2 in its latest Trafficking in Persons report."

 

 

Why oh why does the US consider itself morally superior constantly cajoling countries around the world to approach problems American style: arrest, arrest, arrest, jail, jail, jail, until we get 'em all.

 

 

 

I've always been fascinated by the moral ambivalence of a nation which, under the influence of its radical Christian groups, can make prostitution illegal and at the same time have the largest completely legal pornographic video industry in the world.

[LongTang]

2 hours ago, baansgr said:

124,000 in Thailand.....there is that many in BKK alone. Look anywhere, include Karaokes, freelancers, massage shops, Thailand has close to 3 million sex workers. Females between age 18-45 that makes one in ten Thai women are hookers.

 

How about "Responsible women who will do anything it takes in this harsh land to make sure their families and children have a decent life" ? ? ?

 

[sanemax]

34 minutes ago, LongTang said:

 

How about "Responsible women who will do anything it takes in this harsh land to make sure their families and children have a decent life" ? ? ?

 

Its really not too  difficult for Thais to find jobs outside the sex industry , OK , the pay isnt a good , but theres plenty of jobs out there , if they dont want to work in the sex industry

[khunPer]

12 hours ago, rooster59 said:

Thailand’s modern sex industry is believed to have been established with the setting up of Japanese military bases during World War II. It expanded quickly during the Vietnam War, when U.S. troops came to Bangkok for their recreation breaks.

"Believed", the article's author could easily have done some better homework, and for example read a bit of Thai history. In the 18th-hundred was a thriving sex-industry in Bangkok with many tea houses and brothels, its for example told by Chris Baker and Pasuk Phongpaichit in the A History Of Thailand (Cambridge University Press) page 103.

About the US R&R in the 1960'ies the same book says on page 149: "The sex industry was not new; the public garishness was."

[baansgr]

1 hour ago, LongTang said:

 

How about "Responsible women who will do anything it takes in this harsh land to make sure their families and children have a decent life" ? ? ?

 

Still hookers....they could always try educating themselves,or not being pressured from lazy brothers and parents to provide them with money. I dont have a problem with ladies being hookers, but there is always other options, even in Thailand if they really want to

[GinBoy2]

Sex workers in Thailand are somewhat different to those in the West.

 

Eliminate the Hedi Fleis high end 'escort' stuff, and the majority of the street walkers in the West are selling their bodies to maintain some kind of addiction.

 

In Thailand it's a bit different.

Many hookers are just country girls with little or no education, often with a few rug rats from various Thai bf's, just looking for a way to support their families.

 

Go into a few houses in Isaan and you'll see pictures of daughters in full hooker garb, hanging proudly.

 

Thailand has a long tradition of this, predating the Japanese in WW2 and the GI's in the 60's.

 

I don't know if it's a 'noble' profession, but it's the appetite from Thai & farang men, and remember the majority of the industry is Thai to Thai that sustains it.

 It's mainly in my view, driven by economic hardships, lack of decent employment, and by Thai mens seemingly indifference to fathering children and walking away Scott free 

[BritManToo]

25 minutes ago, GinBoy2 said:

It's mainly in my view, driven by economic hardships, lack of decent employment, and by Thai mens seemingly indifference to fathering children and walking away Scott free 

"The Austrian visitor in 1623, Christoph Carl Fernberger, though he only visited Ayutthaya in Siam, where commercial prostitutes worked near the docks, felt the Siamese women were “excessively lewd… they are always approaching the men and urging them to go with them into their houses and have sex with them”.

 

I'm still going with this reason, we like the girls because they seem to 'enjoy' their work.

[nausea]

I've never met a girl yet who was forced into the trade, most of them enjoy it; there's a big difference between the the internal trade in underage girls, and the farang trade; which is mostly about getting some sucker to pay your bills.

[baansgr]

40 minutes ago, GinBoy2 said:

Sex workers in Thailand are somewhat different to those in the West.

 

Eliminate the Hedi Fleis high end 'escort' stuff, and the majority of the street walkers in the West are selling their bodies to maintain some kind of addiction.

 

In Thailand it's a bit different.

Many hookers are just country girls with little or no education, often with a few rug rats from various Thai bf's, just looking for a way to support their families.

 

Go into a few houses in Isaan and you'll see pictures of daughters in full hooker garb, hanging proudly.

 

Thailand has a long tradition of this, predating the Japanese in WW2 and the GI's in the 60's.

 

I don't know if it's a 'noble' profession, but it's the appetite from Thai & farang men, and remember the majority of the industry is Thai to Thai that sustains it.

 It's mainly in my view, driven by economic hardships, lack of decent employment, and by Thai mens seemingly indifference to fathering children and walking away Scott free 

No, they are the same...easy money rather than working hard...same the world over. Morals, self respect....mind you, here is different as the family are okay about it as they get their new pick up and gold to look good....how many hookers in the west tell their family

[geoffbezoz]

15 minutes ago, baansgr said:

No, they are the same...easy money rather than working hard...same the world over. Morals, self respect....mind you, here is different as the family are okay about it as they get their new pick up and gold to look good....how many hookers in the west tell their family

Another puritanical hypocrite. You start your piece by saying "No, they are the same"  then end it with the question "how many hookers in the west tell their family"  !!!  Well if they were the same then your question would be answered.  ????????????

[LongTang]

1 hour ago, sanemax said:

Its really not too  difficult for Thais to find jobs outside the sex industry , OK , the pay isnt a good , but theres plenty of jobs out there , if they dont want to work in the sex industry

Whats your point?

"the pay isnt a good" is an understatement And They DO want to work in this industry as they can't provide a decent life for themselves, their family and children doing a low paying job.

Obviously the ones who can provide or rather have a different job do exactly that..

 

[LongTang]

1 hour ago, baansgr said:

Still hookers....they could always try educating themselves,or not being pressured from lazy brothers and parents to provide them with money. I dont have a problem with ladies being hookers, but there is always other options, even in Thailand if they really want to

 

Maybe you should educate yourself by going to the more remote villages and see their standards of living and employment potential before you call them degrading names..

[chama]

This business is not going away. When it is out in the open a lot less trouble takes place. Tourism is one of Thailand's biggest industries and this is a key driver to the industry but for years the same government that tries multiple comical methods of increasing tourism denies that this industry flourishes here. If it were to disappear the earth would probably go out of orbit.

[mlmcleod]

Since a military government took charge in 2014, Thailand’s ubiquitous brothels have been hit by a spate of police raids as tourism authorities pledged to transform the country into a luxury destination for moneyed tourists.

 

This quote just give me the giggles!  The pollution and nasty beaches are just what moneyed tourists are seeking!  Since when are millions of Chinese considered as moneyed tourists?

[chilli42]

14 hours ago, BritManToo said:

I believe there was a book from an 18th century explorer that mentions the sex scene in Siam.

So don't blame the Japanese.

You are correct about that.

[chilli42]

I am getting the feeling from reading these comments that people on the forum have a negative bias toward prostitution.  I am a bit skeptical about that.  The Thai population, who are our hosts, clearly have no issue with prostitution provided it remains on the fringe of society.  Is prostitution against the law in Thailand?  Sure it is and so is various forms of corruption, and hundreds of other crimes that nobody ever gets jailed for ... <deleted>.  So all things considered seems to me these ladies want to improve their working conditions ... seems fair enough to me.

[heybruce]

17 hours ago, ezzra said:

Strange rehabilitation methods to allow the bar girls to own and operate a bar, so with this wisdom, will you advise a drug addicts to cultivate or produce their own cannabis and meth? of get alcoholics to set up a distillery as long as the keep good hours and the profits? strange indeed...

Right.  Bar girls owning a bar is a crazy as a mechanic opening a garage, a teacher opening a school, a salesman opening a store...

[heybruce]

9 hours ago, LongTang said:

 

Cynicism aside, Don't forget being able to send your children to receive higher education so they can avoid the life you had..

They are often supporting brothers and sisters as well.  It seems that the oldest sister is often the one who is sent to the city and expected to make money any way she can.

[GinBoy2]

6 minutes ago, heybruce said:

They are often supporting brothers and sisters as well.  It seems that the oldest sister is often the one who is sent to the city and expected to make money any way she can.

It's a concept we don't aways appreciate in the West.

 

After my wife's parents died when she was a teenager, the kids were distributed around other family members.

 

My wife got lucky, she ended up in Chicago with her uncle, so was able to get a good education, a degree and ultimately a good career.

 

But as the eldest, even nearly 30 years on she feels a responsibility to help financially, her brother and younger sisters, who weren't as fortunate as her.

 

Now I can translate her experience to a poor girl with almost zero education just trying to provide money for the equally impoverished family, in any way she can.  

[jbob]

many girls work in a bar for a couple of years then milk their line/facebook contacts for the next couple of decades. They trade stories like the old "family buffalo is sick, send money" or the more modern "sister is sick" or "brother need money for school", even what story to tell when you have 2 boyfriends in town at the same time 555 but it keeps them out of the factories. So long as farangs are getting divorced and farang women are hard to live with there will always be plenty to go around.