rooster59 Posted May 19, 2019 Share Posted May 19, 2019 Phuket Opinion: Recalibrating the retirement visa By The Phuket News The section for Non-Immigrant O-A visas on the application form as available for download from the Royal Thai Embassy in Canberra, Australia. PHUKET: The move currently in progress to ensure retirees staying in Thailand on Non-Immigrant O-A “retirement” visas have some form of health insurance has opened a veritable can of worms. In announcing the new policy – which has yet to be brought into effect – Dr Natthawut Prasertsiripong, Chief of the Ministry of Public Health Department of Health Service Support, noted that “foreigners who are in their elder years staying on this type of visa have more health issues than other foreigners staying on other types of visas.” That’s not rocket science. Older people anywhere have more health issues than younger folk, but Dr Nutthawut also plainly pointed out that the government is looking to unload the burden of footing the bill for medical treatment left unpaid by senior expats who didn’t have the money to pay them. Full story: https://www.thephuketnews.com/phuket-opinion-recalibrating-the-retirement-visa-71468.php#3rZeLytseGXWvXbX.97 -- © Copyright Phuket News 2019-05-19 Follow Thaivisa on LINE for breaking Thailand news and visa info Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew65 Posted May 19, 2019 Share Posted May 19, 2019 ...a similar situation in the UK with "health-tourism"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfokevin Posted May 19, 2019 Share Posted May 19, 2019 55 minutes ago, rooster59 said: Dr Nutthawut also plainly pointed out that the government is looking to unload the burden of footing the bill for medical treatment left unpaid First the good doctor needs to explain the “business” practices they employ that allow 600,000 people to walk out the door without paying?... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgeCross Posted May 19, 2019 Share Posted May 19, 2019 Quote And here’s the issue. These are the same foreigners that Thailand invited by offering so-called retirement visas so that people could spend their golden years – and their money – in Thailand without having to work. The very nature of the visas offered targeted these people. And now it seems that the message is, “You’re welcome to stay while you can spend your money, but if you get too ill you’d better go home.” That’s not exactly a well-thought-out strategy when inviting older people to come. Older people tend to have more life experience and see through such paper-thin intents. a valid point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebean001 Posted May 19, 2019 Share Posted May 19, 2019 please everyone...expats and tourist have a 'cost of doing business'. a country begs for them but they must understand the associated cost? I did the math on how much each expat needs to pay to fix the unpaid medical bills. shocking...the number comes out to 120 bahts per expat. I really would like the government to do the calculations. there seems to be a better way of getting this 120 b than making everyone to buy health care insurance for about ... at least 6k per month. yes, it would make Thailand's insurance companies a lot of money but how many expats will leave. I spend 80k per month in Thailand. many of you do also. losing people to other countries does not make too much sense over 120b. please correct this number if it is wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfokevin Posted May 19, 2019 Share Posted May 19, 2019 ^^^ Totally Agree! Someone need to inform the good doctor that we 80,000 long stay visitors are required by law to plop down 65,000 a month for the privilege of living here... 80,000 x 12 x 65,000 = 62,400,000,000... The Thai government insures that a hefty portion of that ends up in their coffers in the form of many taxes and fees... Compare that statistic to the 300 million you lost mostly due to mismanagement... aka 600,000 people walk out the door without paying... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Changoverandout Posted May 19, 2019 Share Posted May 19, 2019 I wonder how many here that are over 50 are on O-A visas? It doesn’t (at the moment) affect us on extensions due to marriage or retirement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverhawk_usa Posted May 19, 2019 Share Posted May 19, 2019 3 minutes ago, Changoverandout said: I wonder how many here that are over 50 are on O-A visas? It doesn’t (at the moment) affect us on extensions due to marriage or retirement. I was about to point that out myself. As of the latest interpretation I have seen, what you say is true. Therefor the article is irrelevant by having its facts all wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfokevin Posted May 19, 2019 Share Posted May 19, 2019 7 minutes ago, Changoverandout said: I wonder how many here that are over 50 are on O-A visas? It doesn’t (at the moment) affect us on extensions due to marriage or retirement. The good doctor is gunning for you too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billd766 Posted May 19, 2019 Share Posted May 19, 2019 37 minutes ago, sfokevin said: ^^^ Totally Agree! Someone need to inform the good doctor that we 80,000 long stay visitors are required by law to plop down 65,000 a month for the privilege of living here... 80,000 x 12 x 65,000 = 62,400,000,000... The Thai government insures that a hefty portion of that ends up in their coffers in the form of many taxes and fees... Compare that statistic to the 300 million you lost mostly due to mismanagement... aka 600,000 people walk out the door without paying... Taking your figures as a base line it averages out to 500 baht per person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmitch Posted May 19, 2019 Share Posted May 19, 2019 Oh no! Not another compulsory health insurance thread! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew65 Posted May 19, 2019 Share Posted May 19, 2019 1 hour ago, sfokevin said: ^^^ Totally Agree! Someone need to inform the good doctor that we 80,000 long stay visitors are required by law to plop down 65,000 a month for the privilege of living here... 80,000 x 12 x 65,000 = 62,400,000,000... The Thai government insures that a hefty portion of that ends up in their coffers in the form of many taxes and fees... Compare that statistic to the 300 million you lost mostly due to mismanagement... aka 600,000 people walk out the door without paying... 'Normal' use of the NHS—by foreign visitors who've ended up being treated while in England—is estimated to cost about £1.8 billion a year. That's about 72 billion Baht per annum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pattaya46 Posted May 19, 2019 Share Posted May 19, 2019 1 hour ago, sfokevin said: First the good doctor needs to explain the “business” practices they employ that allow 600,000 people to walk out the door without paying?... You do know that it's a mistake by TheNation, don't you? 58 minutes ago, sfokevin said: Someone need to inform the good doctor that we 80,000 long stay visitors are required by law to plop down 65,000 a month for the privilege of living here... 80,000 x 12 x 65,000 = 62,400,000,000... Not true. O-A (Long Stay) visa has no requirement to bring money in Thailand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LivinginKata Posted May 19, 2019 Share Posted May 19, 2019 I read both Phuket based media. One clearly stated required for annual extensions. The other stated not required for retirement extension. Seems a contradiction to me. As it happens I do have good health insurance but I never take the out patient option as it's just not cost effective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smedly Posted May 19, 2019 Share Posted May 19, 2019 Last time I checked those on 12 month extensions now had to keep a bank balance of at least Bt400,000 12 months a year Unless of course you use an agent to bypass the rules and bribe an IO - which means this group of people likely don't have the money - go figure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smedly Posted May 19, 2019 Share Posted May 19, 2019 2 hours ago, sfokevin said: First the good doctor needs to explain the “business” practices they employ that allow 600,000 people to walk out the door without paying?... and also disclose his business interests in Thai health insurance also worth a mention - we assume probably incorrectly that this is aimed at Westerners/farangs When I visit hospitals here it is mostly Middle Eastern and perhaps Chinese in the waiting rooms - don't see as many at the cashier lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThaiBunny Posted May 19, 2019 Share Posted May 19, 2019 Just now, smedly said: and also disclose his business interests in Thai health insurance Transparency? In Thailand? Pass me the smelling salts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the guest Posted May 19, 2019 Share Posted May 19, 2019 Not sure why the government won't just make a blanket decision on all foreigners (including tourists) entering Thailand, by enforcing mandatory insurance as a condition to stay ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just1Voice Posted May 19, 2019 Share Posted May 19, 2019 The way I am reading it, and I could be wrong, they are specifically targeting Non O-A Visa, which is NOT the same as Non-O Retirement. Non O-A is issued by your home country Thai Immigration, while the Non O is issued by Thai Imm in Thailand. Two different types of Visas. So, are they targeting the Retirement Visa? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThaiBunny Posted May 19, 2019 Share Posted May 19, 2019 2 minutes ago, Just1Voice said: Non O-A is issued by your home country Thai Immigration, while the Non O is issued by Thai Imm in Thailand. No wonder people are confused if that's what you think Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew65 Posted May 19, 2019 Share Posted May 19, 2019 15 minutes ago, ThaiBunny said: No wonder people are confused if that's what you think Non O-A can also be obtained at an overseas Thai Embassy, no need for medical or criminal background checks. Or that's how it used to be! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThaiBunny Posted May 19, 2019 Share Posted May 19, 2019 1 minute ago, Andrew65 said: Non O-A can also be obtained at an overseas Thai Embassy, no need for medical or criminal background checks. I think you'll find a Non O can also be obtained at an overseas Thai Embassy, no need for medical or criminal background checks. An O-A always requires medical or criminal background checks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just1Voice Posted May 19, 2019 Share Posted May 19, 2019 The question is: Are they actually talking about Non-O RETIREMENT Visa? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LivinginKata Posted May 19, 2019 Share Posted May 19, 2019 12 minutes ago, Just1Voice said: The way I am reading it, and I could be wrong, they are specifically targeting Non O-A Visa, which is NOT the same as Non-O Retirement. Non O-A is issued by your home country Thai Immigration, while the Non O is issued by Thai Imm in Thailand. Two different types of Visas. So, are they targeting the Retirement Visa? Retirement is not a visa. It's a one year extension. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just1Voice Posted May 19, 2019 Share Posted May 19, 2019 4 minutes ago, LivinginKata said: Retirement is not a visa. It's a one year extension. If you can answer my question, please do so, otherwise stop nitpicking on a word such as "visa". It's very petty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew65 Posted May 19, 2019 Share Posted May 19, 2019 7 minutes ago, ThaiBunny said: I think you'll find a Non O can also be obtained at an overseas Thai Embassy, no need for medical or criminal background checks. An O-A always requires medical or criminal background checks Yes, getting the 2 mixed up. Obviously a trip to Europe or wherever isn't needed either with the O. Penang or Phnom Penh ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThaiBunny Posted May 19, 2019 Share Posted May 19, 2019 1 minute ago, Just1Voice said: The question is: Are they actually talking about Non-O RETIREMENT Visa? Thai embassies and consulates in Australia all mention "retirement" and "O-A" in the same sentence as O-A is a 12-month visa. An "O" visa is something different, generally but not always a 90-day visa (could be multiple-entry). My guess is that many people originally obtained an "O", traveled to Thailand then sought an "Extension based on retirement" at the end of the 90 days. Others traveled on some other sort of visa but then had it converted while in Thailand to an "O" and then sought an "Extension based on retirement". Again I'm guessing but right now the majority of retirees started down or ended up on the "O" track, and a minority started on the O-A track. However O-A is becoming more popular simply because it is a genuine 12-month visa whereas an "O", even if multiple entry, only gives 90 days at a time and therefore needs a visa run if multiple entry Hence in 2019 health insurance will be mandatory for new and extending/renewing O-As; 2020 will be another story Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pattaya46 Posted May 19, 2019 Share Posted May 19, 2019 33 minutes ago, Just1Voice said: Non O-A is issued by your home country Thai Immigration, while the Non O is issued by Thai Imm in Thailand. Two different types of Visas. 13 minutes ago, Just1Voice said: If you can answer my question, please do so, otherwise stop nitpicking on a word such as "visa". It's very petty. It's not petty. What you said is wrong ????. A Non-O for reason of Retirement is a visa that you get abroad (outside Thailand), usually in your home country (same O-A) but probably also available in some neighbouring countries. An extension for reason of Retirement is something you get in Thailand and requires you have a O-A or O visa. Edit: And yes, it's possible to "convert" a Tourist visa in a Non-O in an Immigration office if you qualify for Retirement Extension. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumpy 4680 Posted May 19, 2019 Share Posted May 19, 2019 Has the Doctor a breakdown of how these figures for so called runners we're supposed to of been amassed, ie. O-As, tourist's. westerers, Asian, or even Thais. It would seem to me that Hospitals are to blame for their own failings, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gecko123 Posted May 19, 2019 Share Posted May 19, 2019 It would be very interesting to see a breakdown of unpaid medical bills by type of visa and by age group. The reason I am questioning whether a proper analysis has been done is because I doubt hospitals collect data on a patient's visa type at the time medical services are provided. What about requiring insurance and proper licensing in order for tourists to rent a motorbike. There have been many stories about tourists belatedly discovering after an accident on a motorbike that they are uninsured. Surely, many who are caught in this predicament are at high risk of skipping out on unpaid medical bills. Enforcing minimum automobile liability insurance laws on Thai people would also reduce hospital liabilities for unpaid bills. Why are foreigners, who only account for approx $10 mm in unpaid bills (a pittance), being singled out? Why aren't these liabilities being weighed against all of the revenues tourism generates? And what about grandfathering of immigration requirements at the time you moved here, and phasing in these requirements for only new retirees who can then decide whether they want to move here? Thailand is acting like these new insurance requirements are a minor change like a condominium board changing what time the laundry room is closed. This is potentially a huge change, and it's unfair for Thailand to pretend like they didn't know many retirees planned to live out their lives here or that insurance, especially if you are 70+, isn't an enormous expense which people have the right to be made aware of at the time they moved here. Thailand's acting like: "Hey, we decided to raise bank deposit requirement. We decided to make you carry insurance. No problem for you, farang have lots of money. We decide foreigner have to file new TM-30 report every time you come back from holiday. No problem, farang have lots of spare time, right?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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