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Pheu Thai’s Sudarat says Democrats are “final infinity stone” to stop the junta


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10 hours ago, BobBKK said:

They stated, before the election, 'we will not join the Junta'  to do so now will cats them as hypocritical opportunists bought for a couple of jobs. Democrats?  a change of name should be on the cards if they jump into bed with the other Cobras.

 

Well calling PTP using "pro-democracy" is a farce. The Please Thaksin Party is about as democratic as a New York Mafia family!

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Well calling PTP using "pro-democracy" is a farce. The Please Thaksin Party is about as democratic as a New York Mafia family!

Compared to the current bunch he is right. But we get it use deflection wherever possible, even if it does not make any sense. At least PT seems to be very good at obtaining a mandate. But we know already, the Thai electorate is inconsequential, the whole reason for this charade. Any coalition that can put an end to this will do

 

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2 hours ago, sjaak327 said:

I think you know who eventually prevented PT from paying the rice farmers. Courtesy of the constitutional court, used as a tool to undermine the care taker, democratically  elected government, one of the preconditions  for Prayuth's coup.

 

Whether or not you trust PT is inconsequential, they are the biggest party, and the democrats campaigned not to put Prayuth into Pm office, so the democrats need to do what they promised.

 

 the next government needs to undo some of the election laws, and ensure free and fair elections within a year of taking office. 

 

Incorrect. PTP failed to make provision to pay the farmers whilst in government PRIOR to Yingluck dissolving parliament. Yingluck had made several promises to pay the farmers, which weren't kept, prior to dissolving parliament even though she swore she wouldn't dissolve it. 

 

Anyone who trusts them, believes they've somehow changed, or thinks they aren't owned and controlled by Thaksin and his unsavory clan is naive to say the least.

 

PTP won the largest number of constituent seats but not the popular vote. Their vote was halved from the last election. The fact they are "willing" to offer someone else the PM role suggests they are desperate just to get back to the trough. Years away from the gravy train. 

 

As Mr. Bluespunk noted, the real relationship between the owners of the PTP and FFP parties has yet to be fully established, if indeed there is one.

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8 minutes ago, sjaak327 said:

Compared to the current bunch he is right. But we get it use deflection wherever possible, even if it does not make any sense. At least PT seems to be very good at obtaining a mandate. But we know already, the Thai electorate is inconsequential, the whole reason for this charade. Any coalition that can put an end to this will do

 

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PTP's vote was halved. Suggests many Thais are fed up with the prospect of another Shin kleptocracy.

 

Whilst you keep pretending PTP is a real political party, really interested in democracy, law, order and justice then reality will be far from your grasp.

 

Thaksin former political parties so he, his family and his cronies could try and get control from those who've held it for years. And not for the benefit of the people and country but for his own.  All the tricks of using the myriad of vague laws against opponents were used by Thaksin. Shin parties also tried to muffle free speech especially criticism, and negate checks and balances.

 

The difference is the old guard have the military, fully on board. So he hasn't been able to achieve what his mate Hun Sen has. And Hun Sen is very good at obtaining a mandate. Even if lately that meant imprisoning, threatening, persecuting and driving opposition out of the country!

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3 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Incorrect. PTP failed to make provision to pay the farmers whilst in government PRIOR to Yingluck dissolving parliament. Yingluck had made several promises to pay the farmers, which weren't kept, prior to dissolving parliament even though she swore she wouldn't dissolve it. 

 

Anyone who trusts them, believes they've somehow changed, or thinks they aren't owned and controlled by Thaksin and his unsavory clan is naive to say the least.

 

PTP won the largest number of constituent seats but not the popular vote. Their vote was halved from the last election. The fact they are "willing" to offer someone else the PM role suggests they are desperate just to get back to the trough. Years away from the gravy train. 

 

As Mr. Bluespunk noted, the real relationship between the owners of the PTP and FFP parties has yet to be fully established, if indeed there is one.

If what Thanathon says is true , then he's very different to Thaksin. FF are competing in the upcoming local elections, they're encouraging participation at the local level, a bottom up approach as opposed to Thaksin's top down CEO style. Indeed one of the current MPs in FF is a factory worker. No doubt she'll be delighted to receive a higher salary once Parliament opens.  

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1 minute ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Incorrect. PTP failed to make provision to pay the farmers whilst in government PRIOR to Yingluck dissolving parliament. Yingluck had made several promises to pay the farmers, which weren't kept, prior to dissolving parliament even though she swore she wouldn't dissolve it. 

 

Anyone who trusts them, believes they've somehow changed, or thinks they aren't owned and controlled by Thaksin and his unsavory clan is naive to say the least.

 

PTP won the largest number of constituent seats but not the popular vote. Their vote was halved from the last election. The fact they are "willing" to offer someone else the PM role suggests they are desperate just to get back to the trough. Years away from the gravy train. 

 

As Mr. Bluespunk noted, the real relationship between the owners of the PTP and FFP parties has yet to be fully established, if indeed there is one.

She didn't have much choice in the matter don't you think ? Not dissolving parliament would probably have ended in violence. Precisly what Suthep was after...

 

As to PPRP winning the popular vote, there is no popular vote anymore, as the party list votes have been abandoned. Replaced by a system where supposedly every votes counts, but apparently not with the same weight. As to PTP declined popularity, there is no evidence to support this, as PTP only fielded candidates in 250 constituencies, leaving people unable to vote for PTP in 100 constituencies. (or even Thai Raksa who was disqualified on dubious grounds). This makes the PTP victory even more impressive, as they did win 137 out of 250 constituencies, and with an honest counting, they would have received much more seats, as no-one believes a party with over 8 million votes, not being awarded even a single party list seat, that is mathematically not possible. 

 

Those elections weren't free nor fair, and depsite this, Thaksin won yet another election….

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2 hours ago, sjaak327 said:

I think you know who eventually prevented PT from paying the rice farmers. Courtesy of the constitutional court, used as a tool to undermine the care taker, democratically  elected government, one of the preconditions  for Prayuth's coup.

 

Whether or not you trust PT is inconsequential, they are the biggest party, and the democrats campaigned not to put Prayuth into Pm office, so the democrats need to do what they promised.

 

 the next government needs to undo some of the election laws, and ensure free and fair elections within a year of taking office. 

 

Well let me make the point that I object to your line of trying to tell me what I should believe.

 

More to the point, that's now water under the bridge and past history however I shall always not trust these folks. 

 

Closed.

 

 

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Just now, scorecard said:

 

Well let me make the point that I object to your line of trying to tell me what I should believe.

 

More to the point, that's now water under the bridge and past history however I shall always not trust these folks. 

 

Closed.

 

 

I wasn't telling you anything, I did not quote your post. And even that poster I never told what to believe. 

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I watched the Australian election on the weekend.

 

The voting was finished by 6pm and they announced the result by 10pm.

 

That's what a democratic and fair election will deliver...a fair and democratic result.

 

And the losing party was accepting and humble in defeat with no complaints or legal fighting.

 

This entire Thailand election has been an embarrassing shambles with not even a hint of democracy or transparency...and we still don't have a result.

 

 

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37 minutes ago, sjaak327 said:

Compared to the current bunch he is right. But we get it use deflection wherever possible, even if it does not make any sense. At least PT seems to be very good at obtaining a mandate. But we know already, the Thai electorate is inconsequential, the whole reason for this charade. Any coalition that can put an end to this will do

 

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Well yes let's see an end to this farce, soon, and hopefully without violence.

 

Why do you bring up deflection?

 

The paymaster, sudarat and their ilk are not democracy lovers or campaigners, not at all.   

 

 

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41 minutes ago, scorecard said:

Well yes let's see an end to this farce, soon, and hopefully without violence.

 

Why do you bring up deflection?

 

The paymaster, sudarat and their ilk are not democracy lovers or campaigners, not at all.   

 

 

They might not be, they are howerver consistently the choice of a large part of the Thai electorate. Democracy never works if people don't accept the choices the electorate makes...

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2 hours ago, sjaak327 said:

We will have to wait and see, if they do support Prayuth, next time they might be one of those 11 micro parties that were awarded a seat, and magically all 11 support Prayuth, as if it was planned...….

 

If the democrats are what they stand for, they support pt and ffp. Time to stop this charade. 

Cannot agree they should support PT.

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9 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

Cannot agree they should support PT.

Again, it's not so much supporting PT as such, it is supporting democracy. Pure and simple. There is no other way. You either support a dictator that staged a coup, or you support the side that tries to govern Thailand using a solid mandate, and without an appointed senate. It really is not all that diffficult. 

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Just now, sjaak327 said:

Again, it's not so much supporting PT as such, it is supporting democracy. Pure and simple. There is no other way. You either support a dicatorator that staged a coup, or you support the side that tries to govern Thailand using a solid mandate, and without an appointed senate. It really is not all that diffficult. 

My problem is that I clearly remember the PT govts of the past.

 

Their behaviour then was not that of a party that governed according to the rules or with any sense of what was good for the country as a whole.

 

I see nothing new that leads me to believe the current lot [mostly the same people at the top] will be any different.

 

They certainly do have a the right to try to form a government, no argument there, but the dems are under no obligation to support them or the military party.

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3 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

My problem is that I clearly remember the PT govts of the past.

 

Their behaviour then was not that of a party that governed according to the rules or with any sense of what was good for the country as a whole.

 

I see nothing new that leads me to believe the current lot [mostly the same people at the top] will be any different.

 

They certainly do have a the right to try to form a government, no argument there, but the dems are under no obligation to support them or the military party.

True, they are not obliged to support democracy And they have a track record of not supporting it. If however they do support the military party, they are cheating  anyone that did vote for them. 

 

Maybe they get off the hook if Newin's party decides to join pt/ffp…. 

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1 hour ago, DLock said:

I watched the Australian election on the weekend.

 

The voting was finished by 6pm and they announced the result by 10pm.

 

That's what a democratic and fair election will deliver...a fair and democratic result.

 

And the losing party was accepting and humble in defeat with no complaints or legal fighting.

 

This entire Thailand election has been an embarrassing shambles with not even a hint of democracy or transparency...and we still don't have a result.

 

 

Please don't compare apples and oranges.

This election was held whilst a junta had been power for 5 years. They clearly intend to hold onto power through the establishment of a party with a very similar name to one of their populist policies.  The EC, the body overseeing the election, was appointed by the junta and have been opaque in the extreme, changing the way party list seats are allocated, apart from various other irregularities.

To the junta it's not a shambles, they're still in power, and that's what counts.

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1 hour ago, sjaak327 said:

They might not be, they are howerver consistently the choice of a large part of the Thai electorate. Democracy never works if people don't accept the choices the electorate makes...

Yep we've heard all of that before, a million times, funny how large numbers of folks, anywhere can be tricked. And especially when they are told bullsXX about what democracy really means. 

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2 minutes ago, scorecard said:

Yep we've heard all of that before, a million times, funny how large numbers of folks, anywhere can be tricked. And especially when they are told bullsXX about what democracy really means. 

Well, at least there is a choice. No one voted for Prayuth... And he cheats, lies  leagues worse than PT ever did. 

 

In any case, his constitution and the previous election have absolutely nothing to do with democracy, and this needs to be rectified as soon as possible. 

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1 minute ago, sjaak327 said:

Well, at least there is a choice. No one voted for Prayuth... And he chests, lies  leagues worse than PT ever did. 

Oh so now you admit that your idol party and their ATM machine are liars and less than honest, wow I've just witnessed a miracle.

 

I wonder if Eric Loh is reading this!

 

Calm down el, life will continue.

 

 

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7 minutes ago, scorecard said:

Oh so now you admit that your idol party and their ATM machine are liars and less than honest, wow I've just witnessed a miracle.

 

I wonder if Eric Loh is reading this!

 

Calm down el, life will continue.

 

 

I never ever claimed that Thaksin was above board, or that he was honest. He is not my idol at all. My opinion is very simple, I prefer democracy and I want the Thai electorate to determine who runs the country. It isn't really all that difficult...

 

And., if they choose Thaksin, I have to accept that, just as I have to accept my fellow  countrymen keep voting idiots into government, as I said, without acceptance, democracy will never work. It is a hell of a lot better than what Thailand currently has, that much is absolutely certain. At least with Thaksin, the country advanced, now it becomes an underachiever of the worst kind. The people running the show are utterly incompetent.

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16 hours ago, sjaak327 said:

True, they are not obliged to support democracy And they have a track record of not supporting it. If however they do support the military party, they are cheating  anyone that did vote for them. 

 

Maybe they get off the hook if Newin's party decides to join pt/ffp…. 

Do not agree they are cheating anyone, nor is there a hook to get off.

 

 

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Do not agree they are cheating anyone, nor is there a hook to get off.

 

 

Of course they cheat, if you tell your voters not to help Prayuth into the pm office and you subsequently do just that, you fool your voters. A deadly sin in politics

 

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