US Embassy issues advisory on medical care for tourists, long-stay expats

[connda]

9 hours ago, GinBoy2 said:

Indeed there are a few great hospitals in Thailand, but they come at a price. Do NOT delude yourself that the care you get at the local Govt. hospital will come anywhere close to what you would expect in the West.

Oh bunk.  I've had surgery here in a government hospital and the service was better that the service I received at hospitals back in the US.  You're statement doesn't hold water, especially in a city like Chiang Mai where the same doctors rotate through the private hospitals and Maharaj government hospital, the only difference being the price you pay.  US medical care is far, far from being the best in the world.  Thailand's care, even in government hospitals if on par.  But!  It doesn't force you into bankruptcy like medical care in the US often does, even for those with 'insurance.'  

[Morty T]

18 hours ago, watcharacters said:

 

Good luck but as the agent I use said today with a smile "immigration does not think too much about what they're doing".

 

I'm also fully insured but I realize immigration simply may not care.

 

This is a great opportunity for the government to squeeze out 30, 40, or 60+ thousand baht from thousands of expats.

 

 

I'm currently on Cigna Gold and at $6600 a year if the Thai government wants to squeeze out 30, 40, or 60+ thousand baht out of me for the same coverage, I'll gladly sign up. Just waiting for the smoke to settle. This is a blessing in disquise for many of us. 

[chingmai331]

I've got Thai accident insurance so generally covered for that stuff.  Long term or big serious, I'm on the plane to USA and nearest hospital flashing my Medicare card.

Also, have the 800K baht in the Thai bank for Immig, or emergency here.  Not interested in senior health care premiums.  I'll keep on doing as for the past 37 yrs toward continued good health.

Am reducing calorie, alcohol and salt intake, am taking a bit more exercise (not easy in this heat), keeping far from diseased women and saying my prayers every night.

 

 

[Dumbastheycome]

38 minutes ago, malibukid said:

by not using our Medicare over here we are saving taxpayers in the States back home millions.  this should be appreciated. if Medicare coverage was extended to expats overseas they would still save 70-80% of comparative cost for the same procedures back home.  time for this to change.  the Republicans traditionally favor conservative fiscal policy and should support this.

What  could be more conservative  fiscal policy than to exclude expats from  coverage?

[ocddave]

4 minutes ago, Dumbastheycome said:

What  could be more conservative  fiscal policy than to exclude expats from  coverage?

Have to wonder if the US Embassy employees get a nice government paid for Health Insurance coverage over here, its citizens? Nope, you're on your own, good luck.

[muffy]

I have Calif Blue cross(Anthem) for life no maximum , will the cards be good enough  for proof I use it here all the time.Out and In patient .

[justin case]

I saw the statistics, they lie

 

they want us to believe that long stay expats are the problem ?

 

33 million A-O

 

did they confuse  visa on arrival ?

 

if those quality tourists with no insurance or with insurance, rent a motorbike and have an accident, they are not COVERED anyway

 

this is just a big scam and insurance and middle men are filling their pockets

[Dania2019]

I don`t agree this writing. Farang long stay use more money a month than 25% of Thai people earn in a year, and they can go to hospital for free.

 

Are you married to government person as farang you can go to hospital for free - no sense !!!!!!!!!!

Thai government just want to make it difficult for us, and are very selfish. Many of us has been here for more than 10 years and invest a lot of money. All you can lose, House, car, and the help of children's education - no one care - no feeling about us that help Thailand a lot.

 

If you just visit Thailand in holidays It is ok asking for health Insurance. Otherwise / very bad doing! 

 

The Retirement rules or  married rules don`t mach with this about health insurance they now want us to have. And I you don`t have insurance for many years, it stop when you are 80 years and the cost the last years is about 91.000,- Baht.

 

I have bee here 12 years, use about 7.5 million for family and all. Have never been sick. My age is this year 79, and have paid a lot of privat health-care for my wife true the years for not waiting at hospitals. I have in 4,5 years every month paid 10.000,- bat to her children's study. I fell very bad the way they want to do, and don`t accept the brutality they do - I just go back to my country if they do it. Thats for sure. They do`t want farang here anymore. 

[elephant45]

I was just in Vietnam and got very sick, and I have health insurance. Hospital was a nightmare, no pain killers. Different Doctor everyday and different diagnosis. Finally few back to BKK to Samitivej Hospital and they could find nothing wrong. Hospital in Vietnam kept wanting me to stay longer, stay longer.

[Mango Bob]

31 minutes ago, Danthai said:

Agree. Retired military should have no problem because it is an excellent benefit for retired military. Not sure Thai Immigration knows much about it, but here in Chiangmai, as I understand it, has a contract with Tricare and bills directly for their part. Also, part if the coverage is the benefit is Coverage 100% coverage after the first $3000 of allowable benefit each year.

 

Hope the US Embassy can help educate the Thai Immigration about the Tricare coverage for active and retired military.

What the Embassy or JUSMAGTHAI has to do is get with Thai immigration and inform them of the benefits and that it is so much better than what any Thai policy will give and it free for military retirees. 

[Sheryl]

11 hours ago, impulse said:

 

My biggest concern about the health insurance requirement is the lack of protection against getting dumped like a hot potato as soon as the Thai insurance company figures out they can make more money by cancelling your coverage.  After you find out you have long term, high $$$ health care needs is not a great time to find out you cannot get coverage any more. Or you can't afford the coverage because they jack it up so high.

 

 

An insurance policy is a legally binding contract. They can't "dump"you if you continue to pay the premiums and the policy guaranteed lifetime cover (most do, but check the wording, a few stop cover at a certain age which is obviously not a policy to get).

 

Most (but not all) Thai insurance companies include a provision that allows them to raise premiums based on claim history and/or "change in risk profile" so your concern about being priced out once ill with a chronic condition (and thus unable to get another policy) is valid and a good reason to avoid such policies. Internationally issued expat policies almost never allow for this, it would contravene the insurance regulations of their countries (health insurance regulatory environment in Thailand is rather weak).  As I have repeatedly said, being insured in Thailand does not have to mean buying insurance from a Thai company. Many western insurance companies offer expatriate policies specifically tailored to the needs of people living outside their own country. Dollar for dollar they do nto cost more, in fact often the opposite, and they come under the regulatory framework of whatever country the company is registered in.

 

Policy documents will spell out the terms of premium raises and renewals etc. I advise against taking out a  policy that allows for increases based on claim history or change in health status if you are planning on growing old here and don't have a clear repatriation plan set up. You will still have to contend with increases based on age, that is inevitable, but at least those can be predicted and budgeted for. Likewise I advise against any policy that does not guarantee lifetime renewal.

[Winky Wilson]

Let me give you some valuable advise. Never trust any information from a United States government agency.

[Sheryl]

15 minutes ago, Mango Bob said:

What the Embassy or JUSMAGTHAI has to do is get with Thai immigration and inform them of the benefits and that it is so much better than what any Thai policy will give and it free for military retirees. 

 

It is  not clear that TI will be involved in reviewing insurance coverage. At this point it appears insurance requirement pertains only to issuance of O-X and (soon) O-A visas by Thai Embassies and Consulates abroad.

[Wake Up]

Sorry guys. There are lot of good guys on TVF with helpful information, jokes and good conversation. 

 

But the daily scare mongers, Thai bashers and “ I am smart and they are stupid” and “my home country is great compared to this third world country”  and “ all Thai women are cheats” guys are annoying. IMO they need medication or to sober up, learn to not be afraid, and learn they are not very important in the world. Telling them to leave will not help because they think they are brilliant and have been here so many years. So complaining and criticizing and worry are their only comforts.  Too bad for the rest of us that enjoy this place and don’t suffer from panic attacks or the allusion that  we could move here and could or should change Thai culture. Could the daily bashers just take a few days off and give the rest of us a break please. The world is huge. Thailand and you are a very small part of the world so enjoy what time you have left before you are gone and a distance memory. 

[Knee Jerk Reaction]

One may well have expensive private healthcare here, but when these insurance companies refuse to meet their obligations to their policyholders either the insured is left massively out of pocket if they have the means to cover the bill, or the hospital will be if the unlucky 'insured' can't pay the bill their unscrupulous insurance company has left them with. The government needs to step in with a policy for expats that doesn't leave them high and dry when the time comes to make an expensive claim. People don't mind paying a fair price for a product provided they are going to receive the product they pay for. Can't see the government wanting to get involved though.

[Sheryl]

1 hour ago, Sal Boto said:

Anyone know how much for the required insurance?  $1,000 a year?  i can live with that.................lol.  Mid-50s good health.

 

If  by "required insurance" you are referring to a visa requirement that pertains only to people getting O-X or O-A visa in their home country.

 

If you mean insurance that will actually provide you with the needed protection, for age  mid 50's a decent policy will run about USD $1,500 - $2,500 depending on the policy. Less if you take a deductible option.

 

I advise you to work with a broker, they will give you charts comparing various policies suitable to your specific needs.

[MRToMRT]

32 minutes ago, muffy said:

I have Calif Blue cross(Anthem) for life no maximum , will the cards be good enough  for proof I use it here all the time.Out and In patient .

I have similar from another BIG company. I doubt the card will be enough but if I go to the website of my insurance company theres a form letter that I can download stating the amount of coverage. I am hoping that will be enough and that Imm will not create a new form of their own that the insurance company must validate.

 

I am on an extension of stay so still have to wait and see if 400k all year in a bank account would negate the need for insurance coverage validation letters or not. Fingers crossed as I cant take much more beaurocracy needs - enough is enough.

[yellowboat]

Translation:  Don't get sick.  Stay healthy.

[Sheryl]

1 minute ago, Knee Jerk Reaction said:

. People don't mind paying a fair price for a product provided they are going to receive the product they pay for. Can't see the government wanting to get involved though.

 

Many of us DO receive the insurance product we pay for. I certainly have and so have many other TV members.

 

One has to do due diligence in selecting policy and company, that's all. And READ the policy terms so that you understand them.

 

There is recourse if a company fails to fulfill its end of the bargain. OIC for Thai companies, Finacial ombudsman for UK issued policies etc etc.

 

While there are a few  less than professional Thai insurance companies to be found, there are also a lot of cases of people failing to read policy conditions, lying on their applications or witholding information, expecting to be covered after the policy date lapsed or for injuries sustained doing something illegal (drunk driving, driving without a license etc) and a lot of the complaints about insurance one reads stem from things like that.

[MRToMRT]

If one looks at the US website, it sasy something a little different from the handouts gushing review......

 

 

"Medical treatment is generally adequate in Thailand’s urban areas."

[marcusarelus]

2 hours ago, thailand49 said:

Sadly, the prices are out of the world won't give you a quote after 1954?

Wrong.  https://longstay.tgia.org/

[Sticky Wicket]

I think they will force people to have use Thai companies or existing ones based in Thailand so it simplifies it for immigration.

Everybody will have a card like I have now from BUPA/Aetna

A credit card with your name, ins number, period of cover, Outpatient's coverage amount and inpatient coverage amount .

Very easy to read and would take 30 secs to check

[Sheryl]

1 hour ago, connda said:

Then if you plan to spend your life here - look out!  Health care premiums increase exponentially as you age.  Eventually the premiums are close to being the same as the yearly maximums and your retirement wealth will be drained until you can no longer afford to stay - or - you actually are living in poverty in the 'affordable' third world country where you thought your retirement funds would last while providing you with a higher quality of life then you expensive home country.
What if you've invested in a home, car, family?  Tough - if you can't pay $3,000 or $4,000 or $5,000 for a Thai insurance policy that allows you to stay but doesn't offer you beans for coverage - then get out!  That's why it's probably better off looking for a different place to live, and for those who are just arriving?  "My insurance only costs me $1,125 per year."  Sure, today.  10 years from now?  20?  At what point are you force out the door.  Don't invest in staying as you will be forced out.  

 

Your oremiums will rise with age, yes, and once over 75 may indeed be $4,000 a year. But this is not remotely  near the maxiumum cover which, in an internationally issued policy is usually $500k - 1 million USD a year. And the likelihood iof your using the isnurance is much, much greater (which is why the premiums rise - even unusually healthy ilder people get cataracts etc).

[rumak]

1 hour ago, connda said:

Notice that we are now being inundated with ads and admonishments for health insurance companies who are offering high premium, low payout polices riddled with exclusions for pre-existing conditions.

The shear number of these new ads as well as the media bashing long-term expats as freeloading medical bill skippers and now governments getting into the game even to the point of saying that if you can't afford 'adequate insurance' (whatever that may be) then Thailand is not the right place for you - how fascinating in it's ramifications.   

What I come up with is there is a lot happening behind the scenes.  It's as though blood and chum have been tossed in the water and the insurance sharks are circling their prey with the intention of chewing off small pieces of flesh at a time.  Don't want to kill the host, just bleed them dry before discarding them.

These Thai proffered policies will be essentially worthless as they don't cover pre-existing conditions which virtually all aging expats of retirement age will have.

Someone with diabetes is excluded for diabetes coverage, that person is most likely to be hospitalize due to diabetes which is not covered, and then must pay out of pocket!  How does this protect the Thai hospitals from patients who can not pay?

 

Someone with cancer is excluded for cancer coverage, that person is most likely to be hospitalize due to cancer which is not covered, and then must pay out of pocket!  How does this protect the Thai hospitals from patients who can not pay?

 

Someone with coronary issues is excluded for coronary coverage, that person is most likely to be hospitalize due to coronary problems which are not covered, and then must pay out of pocket!  How does this protect the Thai hospitals from patients who can not pay?

 

This is not about having 'adequate insurance', such as the ridiculous 40k out-patient policy that will be required - this is about harvesting the wealth of a class of foreigners living in Thailand who inject billions of Thai baht into the GDP of this corrupt country and then are rewarded by being lined up and further harvested of their wealth for insurance products that are predatory in the price structure as well as their lack of real coverage.

 

This is governments and corporate entities finding a source of wealth and finding a way to harvest that wealth.  If this was actually about protecting the Thai health care system from those 'who can not pay for health services', then the government would require that healthcare insurers to provide affordable policies that cover pre-existing conditions.  But that is not what this is - it's a money grab.

When they kill the geese that lay the golden eggs and those billions in foreign capital that are injected into the Thai GDP dry up as long-term expats pull up stakes - who knows, they will probably double down.

It's getting time to start polishing Plan B.  

A +      You can PM me when you figure out a good plan B.   Of course, everyone's depends on a number of personal circumstances.   The insurance companies are just an arm of the governments and corporate entities that you mention.   For anyone interested (warning: may increase stress levels)...... check out the health insurance for the top govt officials in US.  Of course it is not same as Medicare for the masses, which has copayments and many other contingencies.

[Knee Jerk Reaction]

Just now, Sheryl said:

 

Many of us DO receive the insurance product we pay for. I certainly have and so have many other TV members.

 

One has to do due diligence in selecting policy and company, that's all. And READ the policy terms so that you understand them.

 

There is recourse if a company fails to fulfill its end of the bargain. OIC for Thai companies, Finacial ombudsman for UK issued policies etc etc.

 

While there are a few  less than professional Thai insurance companies to be found, there are also a lot of cases of people failing to read policy conditions, lying on their applications or witholding information, expecting to be covered after the policy date lapsed or for injuries sustained doing something illegal (drunk driving, driving without a license etc) and a lot of the complaints about insurance one reads stem from things like that.

Been there Sheryl and many of us DON'T receive the insurance product we pay for. I am no fool and was with the same well known company for many years and had read the policy thoroughly. When I eventually came to claim I was, after much argument, reimbursed only a fraction of my cost even though I was insured for more than what the bill came to.

[Alan Michael]

I have recently questioned many Thai people and asked if they have medical insurance. None said yes.

So if they need hospital treatment and can't pay, they will also be a drain on the hospitals finance.

They say that the so called farang non payers of hospitals are also a drain if they can't pay, but the difference is that we will not be allowed to leave the country until we have paid, because the hospital will report your passport details to the police, who will then contact the immigration to stop you leaving Thailand until you have paid.

So who are all these farang non payers?? It's nonsense.

I have had three operations here and was asked for my passport details for security each time.

Should I have just said thanks for the treatment and walked out of the hospital and saved my money?

 

If there was a reasonably priced health care insurance for Thai's, then the retiree expat should also be allowed the same insurance. Fair's fair. We farang  by living in Thailand are Nett financial contributors to the Thai economy

My girlfriend was quoted 40,000 baht per year by a Krungsri bank insurance which is connected to a life insurance so money will come back to her heirs if she should die. The bank said it's for Thai's only. Why?

[flexomike]

1 hour ago, malibukid said:

hmm, i wonder who is behind this statement.  did the Thai government "ask" the U.S. Embassy to make this statement?

btw the way Medicare U.S. does cover Americans for ER services here.

I didn't know that are you talking part A, I was under the presumption that no coverage outside of the US or its territories, can you show something that verifies this, would be great to know, Thank You

[ftpjtm]

34 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

 

An insurance policy is a legally binding contract. They can't "dump"you if you continue to pay the premiums and the policy guaranteed lifetime cover (most do, but check the wording, a few stop cover at a certain age which is obviously not a policy to get).

 

Most (but not all) Thai insurance companies include a provision that allows them to raise premiums based on claim history and/or "change in risk profile" so your concern about being priced out once ill with a chronic condition (and thus unable to get another policy) is valid and a good reason to avoid such policies. Internationally issued expat policies almost never allow for this, it would contravene the insurance regulations of their countries (health insurance regulatory environment in Thailand is rather weak).  As I have repeatedly said, being insured in Thailand does not have to mean buying insurance from a Thai company. Many western insurance companies offer expatriate policies specifically tailored to the needs of people living outside their own country. Dollar for dollar they do nto cost more, in fact often the opposite, and they come under the regulatory framework of whatever country the company is registered in.

 

Policy documents will spell out the terms of premium raises and renewals etc. I advise against taking out a  policy that allows for increases based on claim history or change in health status if you are planning on growing old here and don't have a clear repatriation plan set up. You will still have to contend with increases based on age, that is inevitable, but at least those can be predicted and budgeted for. Likewise I advise against any policy that does not guarantee lifetime renewal.

Thanks for some level headed advice. From previous postings I've read of yours I'm guessing you are involved in the medical profession, and from this one it seems like you have some working experience with some of the insurance companies offering insurance to expats residing in Thailand?

 

If this is the case, could you name a few who you believe offer a decent product?

[marcusarelus]

I didn't get an advisory in my mailbox and I always do.  So I called an acquaintance at the embassy (not a big wheel so may not be accurate) but he said they didn't issue any advisory but there is an article that appeared in the news about

Have a Plan for Successful Aging

https://www.nationmultimedia.com/detail/opinion/30368711

 

Maybe someone else could call an embassy contact to confirm.  Looks to me like someone is trying to stir the pot and motivate Immigration to make insurance mandatory - just my opinion. 

[GalaxyMan]

19 hours ago, WeekendRaider said:

...but not OUTPATIENT COVERAGE!   

I don't get all the outrage over the outpatient coverage. It's only 40,000 baht. It can't amount to much in terms of the cost of the policy. The only mention I found of what exactly outpatient coverage is is from Navakij; doctor's consultation fee, medicine, x-ray, lab tests. 15 visits per year. What's the problem here?