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What is the difference between a non-immigrant (O-A) visa and a retirement visa?


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54 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

You dont "have to say" Retirement visa, I deal with the same office. 

Walk in like everyone else and say "retirement extension please" and they will give you a ticket for the desk that does retirement extensions.

It appears you walk in every year and ask for the wrong thing and every year they manage to understand what you mean, you are still asking for the wrong thing, every year.

 

You could walk in and ask for a thingamybob that lets you stay another year, a good chance the guy will understand you and give you a ticket for the extension desk.

I need a stamp thing might work.

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46 minutes ago, overherebc said:

Just going on the lines that you have to season money every time you apply for your next extension.

Sounds like a new extension as you will also need a new re-entry permit to go with your new extension. Old re-entry dies with your old extension.

Correct 

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Retirement visa (Nr. 5)you need to have proof of government pension no age stipulated and if pension is lover the 65 000 THB you still only need proof of 200 000 THB in bank.

O-A visa (Nr. 7) requirement has been stated time and again but in short 50 years old and 800 000 THB in the bank

 

image.png.3a32ff6a1c754417aaeb1c2229a4ee91.png

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9 hours ago, overherebc said:

Why do you need a new re-entry permit then. Surely if it was just extended then the re-entry permit would still apply

 

1. Extension permit.

2. Re-entry permit.

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On 5/20/2019 at 8:27 PM, overherebc said:

This is an extension of stay based on being retired and an O-A visa.

Where does it say visa ???

images (18).jpeg

images (92).jpeg

The paper you expect to apply for the visa extension "retirrement" is related

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9 minutes ago, Dania2019 said:

The paper you expect to apply for the visa extension "retirrement" is related

Shame that because the visa is then stamped 'used' meaning it is no longer valid. ie, it has served its purpose and can no longer be used.

Edited by overherebc
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22 hours ago, Estrada said:

I entered on a 30 days permission to stay then applied for a retirement VISA. My Visa was issued by Thai Immigration CW and is a proper stand alone VISA stamped type 'O' and headed VISA. I have posted photos several times in the past because of all the arguments that all Visas must be issued out of country. The type O VISA issued by immigration is the only Visa issued in country and is normally for retirement. The Visa gets stamped "USED" within a few minutes of issue and then you are given an extension based on retirement stamp VISA Type: O-RE 

This sounds like a conversion of your original Visa waiver entry to a Non-Imm-O entry, and will look like a Visa stamp, but of course you cannot use it to enter the country, as it is already 'Used'....

It is a bit of a 'wangle' (or pathway) to give people already in the country a way to get onto a One Year extension. It may be splitting hairs but it is not, in the full sense of the word, a Visa. 

Edited by jacko45k
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20 hours ago, overherebc said:

To all those posting that they have a one year retirement visa issued by Immigration in Thailand I suggest the following. As a one year visa doesn't require a re-entry permit then go for a weekend break in Vietnam or somewhere, return to Thailand and explain to the IO at the airport that he should stamp you in for 90 days because you have a one year retirement visa issued here. 

Please post on here what the result is.

NB.

I'm not referring to a one year visa issued outside of Thailand, only your one year visa issued locally.

This is the very real issue that all those who say it doesn't matter whether you call it a visa or an extension of permission to stay, seem to overlook.

 

If you think you have a visa (which doesn't require a re-entry permit) and what you actually have is an extension of permission to stay (which does) you can run into real problems.

 

There have been a number of posts on here from people who have had exactly this problem. They thought they had renewed their multi-entry visa, left the country without a re-entry permit and on returning were flabbergasted to find that their only way of getting back into the country was with a visa-exempt entry valid for 30 days only. They then had to start the process of getting a new visa from scratch, with all the logistical hurdles that entails.

 

If they had not mistakenly thought they had a new visa when all they had was an extension of permission to stay, they presumably wouldn't have got themselves into this mess in the first place.

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2 minutes ago, GroveHillWanderer said:

This is the very real issue that all those who say it doesn't matter whether you call it a visa or an extension of permission to stay, seem to overlook.

 

If you think you have a visa (which doesn't require a re-entry permit) and what you actually have is an extension of permission to stay (which does) you can run into real problems.

 

There have been a number of posts on here from people who have had exactly this problem. They thought they had renewed their multi-entry visa, left the country without a re-entry permit and on returning were flabbergasted to find that their only way of getting back into the country was with a visa-exempt entry valid for 30 days only. They then had to start the process of getting a new visa from scratch, with all the logistical hurdles that entails.

 

If they had not mistakenly thought they had a new visa when all they had was an extension of permission to stay, they presumably wouldn't have got themselves into this mess in the first place.

Yep. Hear it often, 'I've just been to the local Imm' office and got my new multi entry visa.'  If they are retired here and only ever do 90 day reports and never leave Thailand then it's no problem. The problem only rears it's ugly head when they post on here as the perceived victim of the circumstances you describe.

Have to add though that embassies, consulates and their respective websites don't actually help as many/most refer to everything they put in your passport as a visa.

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10 minutes ago, overherebc said:

Yep. Hear it often, 'I've just been to the local Imm' office and got my new multi entry visa.'  If they are retired here and only ever do 90 day reports and never leave Thailand then it's no problem. The problem only rears it's ugly head when they post on here as the perceived victim of the circumstances you describe.

It should be clear what your extending, if only they read the document header they complete, or even bother to read the stamp they receive.

ตม.7
TM.7
คำขออนุญำตเพื่ออยู่ในรำชอำณำจักรเป็นกำรชั่วครำวต่อไป
APPLICATION FOR EXTENSION OF TEMPORARY STAY IN THE KINGDOM.

 

images (18).jpeg

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20 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

It should be clear what your extending, if only they read the document header they complete, or even bother to read the stamp they receive.

ตม.7
TM.7
คำขออนุญำตเพื่ออยู่ในรำชอำณำจักรเป็นกำรชั่วครำวต่อไป
APPLICATION FOR EXTENSION OF TEMPORARY STAY IN THE KINGDOM.

 

images (18).jpeg

But, but, that's a visa. ????????????

Sarcasm on.????????

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There are visa's and there are extensions.

More importantly there are two sets of answers to any immigration question you choose to ask. A visa answer and an extension answer.

 

Ask any immigration question, leaving , entering, staying, renewing, extending, financial requirements, reporting etc etc. There are two sets of answers, one set for visa's, and second set for extensions. 

 

Interpretation, semantics, understanding means nothing. Visa questions and answers are completely different to extension questions and answers. It doesn't matter what the cleaner at immigration calls an extension, the answers are still different to a visa.

 

The first page of any visa thread is usually taken up with 3-4  posts clarifying whether the op means a visa or an extension. Then people can give the right answer. 

 

If you own a dog, you can call it a cat but don't be surprised if you ask the vet about cats, he gives you answers about a cats.

Edited by Peterw42
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Well, as far as I am concerned, anyone wishing to "renew their retirement visa" can only do so through quarterly trips to Vientiane, Savannakhet, etc for fresh new real genuine McCoy single-entry visas of the non-immigrant "O" variety.

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10 minutes ago, OJAS said:

Well, as far as I am concerned, anyone wishing to "renew their retirement visa" can only do so through quarterly trips to Vientiane, Savannakhet, etc for fresh new real genuine McCoy single-entry visas of the non-immigrant "O" variety.

The closest thing to renew a retirement visa would be go back to home country and get another OA visa, a 1 year stay, specifically for retirement.

An O visa gives a 90 day stay, not a very long retirement. O visa gives entry to Thailand for various reasons not specifically retirement.

Edited by Peterw42
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On 5/21/2019 at 12:02 PM, ThaiBunny said:

You'll find that it's the more obsessive types who drone on and on and on about "extension NOT visa". As far as the Thais are concerned it's a distinction without a difference https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distinction_without_a_difference

Indeed. Merriam-Webster doesn't help clarify the semantics either:

Quote

Legal Definition of visa

 

: an endorsement made on a passport by the proper authorities denoting that it has been examined and that the bearer may proceed

Ah, yes. The sticker affixed to my passport at a Thai Embassy, by an MFA official, says: We verily find your passport in order, and thus you may proceed to the Thai border to await further processing by Thai Immigration authorities. Thus, the airline lets you board, as you have been found 'ok' by the proper authorities, at least at the MFA level. So, visa part one has taken place.

 

Arrive at Swampy, and visa part two takes place by Immigration. If they find you in order, they issue a further endorsement, this one allowing you to enter Thailand, and remain for a designated period of time. Thus, visa part two is made by an entry "endorsement" by the proper authorities, i.e., Immigration.

 

And, a year later, when you want to "renew" your one year permission of stay, you get another endorsement from the proper authorities.

 

All this is defined by Merriam-Webster as "visas." But, remember the "proper authorities" rejoinder: Thus we have MFA visas, and we have Immigration visas. Just make sure you use the proper adjective, although context should eliminate any further stupid dialogue on the semantics of what a visa is.

 

 

 

 

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On 5/21/2019 at 1:00 PM, rott said:

I was wondering where visa waiver came into it, I know visa exempt and visa on arrival, but waiver? Sounds familiar but I cannot place it.

Some advertisers use the two terms interchangeably:

 

Quote

A Visa Exemption / Visa Waiver is when you arrive in Thailand without a visa

https://www.locationindependent.co.uk/thai-visas-digital-nomad-guide/#WhatIsVisaExemption

 

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On 5/22/2019 at 10:17 AM, Peterw42 said:

The closest thing to renew a retirement visa would be go back to home country and get another OA visa, a 1 year stay, specifically for retirement.

An O visa gives a 90 day stay, not a very long retirement. O visa gives entry to Thailand for various reasons not specifically retirement.

Not sure this is the case all the time. At least some embassy’s state you can get retirement visa. See my previous post 64

 

 

Retirement visa (Nr. 5)you need to have proof of government pension no age stipulated and if pension is lover the 65 000 THB you still only need proof of 200 000 THB in bank.

O-A visa (Nr. 7) requirement has been stated time and again but in short 50 years old and 800 000 THB in the bank

 

image.png.3a32ff6a1c754417aaeb1c2229a4ee91.png

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18 minutes ago, bokningar said:

Not sure this is the case all the time. At least some embassy’s state you can get retirement visa.

Which embassy website is that from?

Best to post the source of anything like that you post.

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11 minutes ago, bokningar said:

Sorry, all numbers in SEK I rounded them of for THB in my post.

Actually that is a rarity. They also require this which might restrict it to those much older than 50 "Pension certificate from Pensionsmyndigheten".

Most embassies and official consulates will not issue a non-o visa for being 50 or over for retirement. They will only issue a OA long stay visa.

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1 minute ago, ubonjoe said:

Actually that is a rarity. Most embassies and official consulates will not issue a non-o visa for being 50 or over for retirement. They will only issue a OA long stay visa.

And this is a big change from last year. Retirement visa then was 50 y old pension + bank statement 400 000 THB.  

Now they don’t mention age at all, just “Pension certificate” and from government pension only. So disabled pension at young age would be OK I guess.

 

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2 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

Actually that is a rarity. // Most embassies and official consulates will not issue a non-o visa for being 50 or over for retirement. They will only issue a OA long stay visa.

Hi ubonjoe. Not sure it's so rare. You can add Thai Embassy in France to the list of those who allow Non O for people above 50. They also used to call Non O-A the "Retirement Visa" but recently changed to "Long Stay", same Non O-X.

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In the context of this never ending, long winded discussion of precise terminology, I'd say the O-A is the one and only legitimate case for using the term "retirement visa". I have never applied for a "retirement visa", but if some random person asked me if I'm here on a retirement visa, I would answer "yes" rather than "no, actually I'm here on an extension of stay based on retirement, having used a now-expired 1-yr non-immigrant 'O' multiple-entry visa as the underlying basis for said extension." LOL.

 

Incidentally, the Oxford dictionary definition of "visa" somebody cited earlier...

Quote

An endorsement on a passport indicating that the holder is allowed to enter, leave, or stay for a specified period of time in a country

 ...is absolutely incorrect, not just for Thailand but for anywhere and everywhere. The Websters and "legal" definitions are more accurate.

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On 5/22/2019 at 10:09 AM, OJAS said:

Well, as far as I am concerned, anyone wishing to "renew their retirement visa" can only do so through quarterly trips to Vientiane, Savannakhet, etc for fresh new real genuine McCoy single-entry visas of the non-immigrant "O" variety.

"Renew" as used by the official is completely the wrong term. I just had to renew my UK driving licence, this involves a couple of checks and a simple updating of the document. Same will be true when I renew my passport, there are no changes in details, so there's a continuity involved. Getting a new visa is completely independent of any old visa which is now expired and therefore cannot be renewed. If anything an extension of stay is closer in meaning to renewing a visa, since the extensions are granted on the back of an original visa which is still referenced by number. 

Edited by lamyai3
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On 5/28/2019 at 1:55 AM, lamyai3 said:

"Renew" as used by the official is completely the wrong term. I just had to renew my UK driving licence, this involves a couple of checks and a simple updating of the document. Same will be true when I renew my passport, there are no changes in details, so there's a continuity involved. Getting a new visa is completely independent of any old visa which is now expired and therefore cannot be renewed. If anything an extension of stay is closer in meaning to renewing a visa, since the extensions are granted on the back of an original visa which is still referenced by number. 

Yup, it ought to be no surprise to anybody that an "extension of stay" is an extension of the stay originally granted by Immigration upon last entry which, in turn, was based on the strength of having a particular kind of (unexpired) visa at that moment. The one exception to that "last entry" part would be if  a re-entry permit was used to leave and return; the re-entry permit merely bestows the right to exit and return (once or multiple times, depending on the type purchased) within the current authorized stay, and the parameters surrounding that stay remain unchanged (sort of a single entry or multiple entry quasi-visa obtained in-country). A visa is never extended. 

 

Regarding passport renewals, wouldn't it be nice to have the passport number remain constant instead of changing with each renewal? I don't know about other countries, but USA passport numbers change every time. Given what ubonjoe has stated, this will be problematic for doing my 90-day notifications via the web when I eventually have to renew. Having to exit and re-enter to get a database properly updated as a prerequisite is... lame.

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  • 4 months later...
On 5/21/2019 at 5:34 AM, Estrada said:

I entered on a 30 days permission to stay then applied for a retirement VISA. My Visa was issued by Thai Immigration CW and is a proper stand alone VISA stamped type 'O' and headed VISA. I have posted photos several times in the past because of all the arguments that all Visas must be issued out of country. The type O VISA issued by immigration is the only Visa issued in country and is normally for retirement. The Visa gets stamped "USED" within a few minutes of issue and then you are given an extension based on retirement stamp VISA Type: O-RE 

Is it actually stamped "O-RE?" And presumably the RE stands for "retirement?"

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