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BANGKOK 20 July 2019 04:27
Yellowtail

Electrical Service

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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

The original connection is much more expensive, so may be not.

I think all I need to get three-phase is a new meter and reconfiguring the existing panel. 

 

The AC would each need a three-phase drop as well, but they will likely need new drops anyway, so an extra wire is not much of an issue. 

 

To be clear, If it's going to cost a butt-load of dough to get the upgrade I'm not going to do it. As it is now, long-term I think I'm looking at a complete re-wire 

Edited by Yellowtail

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47 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

I think all I need to get three-phase is a new meter and reconfiguring the existing panel. 

 

The AC would each need a three-phase drop as well, but they will likely need new drops anyway, so an extra wire is not much of an issue. 

 

To be clear, If it's going to cost a butt-load of dough to get the upgrade I'm not going to do it. As it is now, long-term I think I'm looking at a complete re-wire 

Minimum cost from PEA

 

1) Single-phase 5(15)A meter installation fee (Note: (Including 7% VAT))  Fee 728 baht 

 

2) Single-phase 15(45)A meter installation fee (Note: (Including 7% VAT))  Fee 4,621.5 baht 

 

3) Single-phase 30(100)A meter installation fee (Note: (Including 7% VAT))  Fee 12,383 baht

 

4) Three-phase 15(45)A meter installation fee (Note: (Including 7% VAT))  Fee 16,004.5 baht 

 

5) Three-phase 30(100)A meter installation fee (Note: (Including 7% VAT))  Fee 38,754 baht

 

Though if you do not have 3 phase 220V outside your property you may have to pay for a transformer and cables and that can quickly reach into the hundreds of thousands.

 

You will need a new 3 phase CU as you can't just reconfigure a single phase one.

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2 hours ago, sometimewoodworker said:

Minimum cost from PEA

 

1) Single-phase 5(15)A meter installation fee (Note: (Including 7% VAT))  Fee 728 baht 

 

2) Single-phase 15(45)A meter installation fee (Note: (Including 7% VAT))  Fee 4,621.5 baht 

 

3) Single-phase 30(100)A meter installation fee (Note: (Including 7% VAT))  Fee 12,383 baht

 

4) Three-phase 15(45)A meter installation fee (Note: (Including 7% VAT))  Fee 16,004.5 baht 

 

5) Three-phase 30(100)A meter installation fee (Note: (Including 7% VAT))  Fee 38,754 baht

 

Though if you do not have 3 phase 220V outside your property you may have to pay for a transformer and cables and that can quickly reach into the hundreds of thousands.

 

You will need a new 3 phase CU as you can't just reconfigure a single phase one.

 

 

I'm MEA, but I imagine the prices are similar. I think the building used to be three-phase, and the existing panel is (I think) three-phase, but it is being used single-phase now. The wire from the meter to the panel seems to still be there as well.

 

I'm not locked into this, I'm just talking at this point, trying to figure out the pros and cons and figure out how to minimize my ongoing cost.

 

My wife owns the building so I don't mind spending a little to get it whipped into shape.

 

 

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10 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

I think three-phase will lower my peak usage and lower my operating costs.

it won't.

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3 hours ago, sometimewoodworker said:

Three-phase 15(45)A meter installation fee (Note: (Including 7% VAT))  Fee 16,004.5 baht 

i paid something like 17,000 Baht for my 3-phase meter, was told "installation" and got two years later a full refund of this amount. go figure! :unsure:

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Posted (edited)
24 minutes ago, Naam said:

it won't.

I believe it will absolutely reduce my peak usage, whether or not it reduces my cost is what I don't know.

 

Edit:  only see it reducing peak usage if I move the AC to three-phase. Splitting single-phase units up on different legs I don't think would be much of a benefit. 

Edited by Yellowtail
added note

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"Where'd you get the 3ph water heaters? I have a 50 gal single phase Rheem I brought from the US."

I bought the 3 phase multipoint heaters in Thailand. Maybe at Homepro or one of those places. There are pamphlets with all the different single and 3 phase devices available.

Nice rain out here near Mukdahan at the moment.

Sent from my SM-J700F using Tapatalk

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Looking at our OPs photos.

 

Positives:-

  • Already has a 3-phase incoming breaker.
  • Meter wiring still in place.

 

Negatives;-

  • Looks like something is wired to the incoming side of the 100A breaker (what, why?)
  • Something that looks awfully like phone cable is wired to the outgoing side of the 100A breaker!!

 

Actions required:-

  • Remove that phone cable and wire whatever it feeds properly.
  • Sort out whatever is wired on the incoming side, there should be no issue with feeding from the outgoing side of the breaker.

 

Then.

  • Install a neutral block next the the breaker.
  • Identify and move the incoming neutral to the neutral block
  • Ditto for the neutral leaving the breaker.
  • You will then have two free poles on the breaker.
  • Attache the "spare" wires from the meter to those blocks.
  • Call PEA/MEA to re install the 3-phase meter.

 

Once that's done you can set about possibly having one of the existing distribution boards per phase and set up a 3-phase board for your 3-phase kit. 

 

You should also consider installing some form of earth leakage protection. There's a handy-dandy space next to the main breaker 🙂

 

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4 hours ago, Crossy said:

Looking at our OPs photos.

 

Positives:-

  • Already has a 3-phase incoming breaker.
  • Meter wiring still in place.

 

Negatives;-

  • Looks like something is wired to the incoming side of the 100A breaker (what, why?)
  • Something that looks awfully like phone cable is wired to the outgoing side of the 100A breaker!!

 

Actions required:-

  • Remove that phone cable and wire whatever it feeds properly.
  • Sort out whatever is wired on the incoming side, there should be no issue with feeding from the outgoing side of the breaker.

 

Then.

  • Install a neutral block next the the breaker.
  • Identify and move the incoming neutral to the neutral block
  • Ditto for the neutral leaving the breaker.
  • You will then have two free poles on the breaker.
  • Attache the "spare" wires from the meter to those blocks.
  • Call PEA/MEA to re install the 3-phase meter.

 

Once that's done you can set about possibly having one of the existing distribution boards per phase and set up a 3-phase board for your 3-phase kit. 

 

You should also consider installing some form of earth leakage protection. There's a handy-dandy space next to the main breaker 🙂

 

3

 

The suspicious wires going into the top of the breaker are not connected, they're just stubbed out. The new photo (I think) makes it more clear.

 

Phone wire going to panel light

 

I made a mistake. The top panel is not the main panel. New photo (I think) makes this clear.

 

Thanks for the help

08 Panel Light.jpg

09 Three-Phase Panel.jpg

07 Breaker.jpg

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Sorry for an aside, but does that 3 phase panel have a cover and did you remove the cover for the photo?

Sent from my SM-J700F using Tapatalk

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16 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

The top panel is not the main panel. New photo (I think) makes this clear.

 

Ah, that's even better. So the three incoming wires to the breaker all go back to the meter position with two of them blanked off?

 

Are all the three actually live right now (they're connected togther somewhere to supply everything from a single phase)? Obviously you will need to locate any phase-phase connection but that does make life significantly easier for going back to 3-phase.

 

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2 hours ago, carlyai said:

Sorry for an aside, but does that 3 phase panel have a cover and did you remove the cover for the photo?

Sent from my SM-J700F using Tapatalk
 

Yes it has a cover and I removed it for the photo. In the photo on the previous page it is the one marked Square D Load Center.

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2 hours ago, Crossy said:

 

Ah, that's even better. So the three incoming wires to the breaker all go back to the meter position with two of them blanked off?

 

Are all the three actually live right now (they're connected togther somewhere to supply everything from a single phase)? Obviously you will need to locate any phase-phase connection but that does make life significantly easier for going back to 3-phase.

 

 

Yes, the three wires go back to the meter and are blanked off.

 

The three legs do not seem to be connected together. I don't read anything between the legs. Neutral to:

L1 is ~230, 

L2 is ~48

L3 is ~48

 

BUT two of the breakers next to each other are both hot, which seems odd to me. Going down the panel, shouldn't only every third breaker be hot?

 

It seems like the lower three phase panel is feeding the upper panel.

 

I need to get someone in to get it straightened out. Every time I open the cover my wife starts crying...

 

 

 

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OK L2 and L3 are probably showing "phantom" voltages and are just floating.

 

I agree every 3rd breaker should be live with that configuration, if you are seeing hot outputs (are they still hot with the breaker off?) then something odd is going on which needs looking at before you re-connect the 3-phase supply.

 

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Ground/Earth: There is a heavy ground wire that I think (but cannot confirm) terminates under the concrete behind the building.

 

Is there any way to check the quality of the ground/earth at the panel?

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