After using the 800k agency method

[dcnx]

14 hours ago, crazykopite said:

Cannot believe that people use agents if caught your time in Thailand would come to an end is it really worth the risk 

“If caught” ????

 

Been using one for over 15 years. They work closely with immigration officers and nothing is done without immigration being in on it. It’s a racket created between the agents and immigration where everyone gets paid.

 

No one is getting caught. It’s just how things works here. 

[Benmart]

Illegal activity exposes you to arrest and associated misery. My suggestion is compliance with the law and avoid shortcuts.

[CharlieH]

Off topic remarks/responses removed.

 

[jacko45k]

9 hours ago, somo said:

They live here and pay tax through VAT which is all 90% of Thais do.

But they are not Thais and break the regulations designed to give people a platform to live and retire in Thailand. It isn't other foreigners who arrest and deport them when caught. 

 

9 hours ago, somo said:

They do no harm so the self righteous here who criticise them should stop being so pompous and mind their own business.

Ah but they do, they make the lives of these self righteous more difficult by forcing Thailand to impose ever stricter requirements. . 

Edited May 23, 2019 by jacko45k

[Tomahawk21]

The reason i might delay transferring 800k is a poor exchange rate currently due to Brexit. Makes a difference of £2k+ depending on where the exchange rate goes

 

open up a sterling account and bring it of that way and use that for your retirement visa.

[RocketDog]

Are you a lawyer? I think not. If you are a lawyer you know that anytime there is a conflict in laws, it is resolved by an independent judiciary and not by farangs tantrums in a forum. If an IO says this application does not require seasoning, that is the law. And if the IO says because you submitted a DIY application, it is not approved. That is the law. You're powerless because there is no judiciary to review your case. You have freely subjected yourself to this situation b selecting to live under an authoritarian government unlike forced submission of ladies in Handmaid's tale (I am binge watching the series now, so it came to my mind). I feel using agent does a service to the agent communities and IOs who don't have to bother with annoying farangs and there meaningless questions.

Up to you. No, I'm not a lawyer but apparently you are.
I'll follow my instincts.
Thanks.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[JackThompson]

10 hours ago, onera1961 said:

Are you a lawyer? I think not. If you are a lawyer you know that anytime there is a conflict in laws, it is resolved by an independent judiciary and not by farangs tantrums in a forum. If an IO says this application does not require seasoning, that is the law. And if the IO says because you submitted a DIY application, it is not approved. That is the law. You're powerless because there is no judiciary to review your case.

Short Version - there is no functional oversight in the Immigration Chain of Command, therefore every office operates like it's own independent fiefdom. 

 

I would add, it's been this way long before the current national govt took power.

 

Quote

You have freely subjected yourself to this situation b selecting to live under an authoritarian government unlike forced submission of ladies in Handmaid's tale (I am binge watching the series now, so it came to my mind). I feel using agent does a service to the agent communities and IOs who don't have to bother with annoying farangs and there meaningless questions.

Some of us have family/friends here, so it is not a matter of just "checking out" and moving to Vietnam.  It is ironic that their govt is more welcoming than Thailand's, after mine helped save Thailand from being conquered by them, just a short time ago. 

 

I would suggest reading "Hillbilly Elegy" next - a tale of how the traitorous policy-changes which created so-called "globalization," wrecked countless communities across the USA, leading to the destruction of families and the middle-class, in-turn setting the table for the growing drug/opioid epidemic there among the hopeless.

 

10 hours ago, onera1961 said:

If you support only the informal economy, you don't even pay VAT. Please don't compare Thais to yourself.

Our spending creates Thai Jobs.  That is why were are allowed to be here in the first place.  Even the most meager spending of us are a net-benefit to the country.

 

Quote

I think that cheapens your personal achievement if you have any in your life. If you don't have any personal achievement in your life, consider yourself lucky, a mere lottery winner,  to be born in a rich country. 

I don't know how you reached the illusion that people just "pop up" into existence randomly.  We are the descendants of those who built our "rich countries" - so of course that is where we were born.  Others, whose ancestors lived in areas where the skill, drive, leadership, etc was insufficient to create a wealthy country, are born there, instead.  There is no "random chance" element to it.  People work to make a better country, to a large extent, for the benefit of their children.  Take that away (see USSR), and motivation is lost.

 

What constitutes "Personal Achievement" is too subjective to even begin to consider without a long essay.

Edited May 24, 2019 by JackThompson

[JackThompson]

1 hour ago, jacko45k said:

But they are not Thais and break the regulations designed to give people a platform to live and retire in Thailand. It isn't other foreigners who arrest and deport them when caught. 

 

Ah but they do, they make the lives of these self righteous more difficult by forcing Thailand to impose ever stricter requirements. . 

No one is "getting caught," because Immigration created the agent-system to allow them to take bribes through a trusted 3rd party.

 

The purpose of the "Stricter requirements" is to force more to use agents - not in response to the agent-system IOs invented, and extract wealth from. 

 

I do agree there is a downside, however - IOs become increasingly greedy, and unwilling to process 100% legit-extensions as their appetite for "extra" pay, increases. 

[Peterw42]

This is how an agent extension works, a high level IO approves the extension with or without funds, seasoning etc. Its a 100% legal extension.

See below the paragraph from the police order that covers extensions. The agent hands the application to a high level IO and as per paragraph 5 below, he approves it. 

 

ORDER OF THE IMMIGRATION BUREAU No. 327/2557 Subject: Criteria and Conditions for Consideration of an Alien’s Application for a Temporary Stay/Extension in the Kingdom of Thailand

 

5. In the case where an alien applicant does not meet the full qualifications stipulated by the criteria herein or in other cases not specified in this Order but a competent officer equivalent to or higher than inspector is of the opinion that the alien has legitimate reason for staying in the Kingdom of Thailand, the application shall be forwarded to the Commander of the Royal Thai Police or an authorized competent officer for further consideration of the alien's application

[scubascuba3]

The reason i might delay transferring 800k is a poor exchange rate currently due to Brexit. Makes a difference of £2k+ depending on where the exchange rate goes
 
open up a sterling account and bring it of that way and use that for your retirement visa.

Yes someone else suggested that but it sounds like they either pay no interest or very low interest vs a THB fixed deposit earning 17k+ a year

[ubonjoe]

22 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

the application shall be forwarded to the Commander of the Royal Thai Police or an authorized competent officer for further consideration of the alien's application

I am sure that competent officer would not be at a local immigration office. I think they would be at the division level or higher.

IMO there are some bogus copies of documents stuck in file for the application and a officer signs off on the extension knowing the copies are bogus.

[Nowisee]

 

Getting money into Thailand seems to be quite easy.  
Getting the money out doesn't seem to be as easy.  

Using an agent to achieve the 800k seems to be an option for anyone not wanting to put up and tie up real money.
 

Earning 2.2% on 25k in farangland yields roughly 18k baht/year.  If an agent costs half that, it's still the better choice.  

Edited May 24, 2019 by Nowisee

[5633572526]

22 hours ago, crazykopite said:

Cannot believe that people use agents if caught your time in Thailand would come to an end is it really worth the risk 

Actually believe the tighter rules will promote the use of agents. When doing my retirement extension a couple weeks back I saw more agents with hands full of passports than I ever had previously. I asked the agent I first used to get my retirement extension a few years back about it (we still meet for coffee) and he told me the price went up and business is booming. I guess you need to keep in mind that they pay immigration officers a commission for their cooperation and money is the true ruler in Thailand.

[Peterw42]

26 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

I am not sure that competent officer would be at a local immigration office. I think they would be at the division level or higher.

IMO there are some bogus documents stuck in file for the application and a officer signs off on the extension knowing the documents are bogus.

An agent I used in the past told me 2-3 bosses at each office are high enough rank and authorized etc. That was his explanation how the agent system works.

 

Thats a lot of the misunderstanding, they are not approving with bogus documents in the file, they are approving with no document, they waive the document requirement and are authorised to waive ..

 

I was on an agent extension a few years ago and trying to sort out a on-line 90 day problem. The IO said to me "I can see that the boss approved your last extension but I still cant fix your 90 day problem", she recognised the bosses signature on the extension.

 

 

Edited May 24, 2019 by Peterw42

[ubonjoe]

6 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

An agent I used in the past told me 2-3 bosses at each office are high enough rank and authorized etc.

And you believed him.

 

8 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

The IO said to me "I can see that the boss approved your last extension but I still cant fix your 90 day problem", she recognised the bosses signature on the extension.

No surprise there. I am sure they would all know who the boss is and probably would of seen their signature on many things.

[essox essox]

23 hours ago, crazykopite said:

Cannot believe that people use agents if caught your time in Thailand would come to an end is it really worth the risk 

and what are the chances of getting caught??

[Olmate]

23 minutes ago, 5633572526 said:

I guess you need to keep in mind that they pay immigration officers a commission for their cooperation and money is the true ruler in Thailand.

 I,m certain the agent is the one on the commission, given the break up of the proceeds!

[piston broke]

20 hours ago, jacko45k said:

????

Would it not be easier for immigration to insist all applications are done in person, or simply stop allowing agents to bypass the queues and pass their workload directly into the hands of the IOs? These changes actually make it more difficult only for those who complied fully with the old requirements, and likely drove some of them into the hands of agents.... that is more likely the reason!

 

 

Who do you think are processing the agent's applications / renewals ?

 

This thread seems full of people who have never even stepped inside an agent's office

 

[scubascuba3]

Personally i think Immigration should offer a legit 10k 1 year extension with no requirements for monthly income or money in bank and hassle free

[Peterw42]

Just now, scubascuba3 said:

Personally i think Immigration should offer a legit 10k 1 year extension with no requirements for monthly income or money in bank and hassle free

They do but its 100k a year for 5 years, an elite visa, or 20k to an agent.

[scubascuba3]

They do but its 100k a year for 5 years, an elite visa, or 20k to an agent.

Yes but that's different, a 10k a year option would kill the agent method.They'd generate loads of extra money as it would appeal to so many more. Bin the elite visa

[elliss]

On 5/23/2019 at 9:10 AM, scubascuba3 said:

I think its too risky and be trapped in the agency method so I'll stick to the legit 800k method

 

Fyi,   the Guys , who use the agents , seldom have the reqd 800k .

         Therefore they choose agents, if i was in their boots , i would  do the same.

          What would you do,  leave Thailand ?. 

         

 

[elliss]

1 hour ago, piston broke said:

 

Who do you think are processing the agent's applications / renewals ?

 

This thread seems full of people who have never even stepped inside an agent's office

 

 

          Lets take a  calculated guess,   immigration officers ? .

          No big joke. 

 

 

[KhunFred]

On 5/23/2019 at 10:03 AM, crazykopite said:

Cannot believe that people use agents if caught your time in Thailand would come to an end is it really worth the risk 

You can't get "caught". There is an agent who has an office at Chonburi Immigration. They solve problems by funneling money to IO officials. The perception that agents are operating outside the law is insane.

[Haso]

THE RULE..Today we went to Phuket Immigration to renew my Permission to stay for Retirement on the 65,000 bt. plus per month. Immigration boss said even though the law came in on 1/3/2019, he wanted to see 12 month retrospectively every month from today with ONLY overseas transfers. HE SAID..There no leniency or diversion to the rule...or 800000 3 months before. Looked at itemised Bangkok Bank Statement at 10  overseas monthly transfers. My two other monthly cash deposits of over 65000 NOT accepted. He suggested to start over with OA Visa issued in home country. Very disappointed. Now have to consider agent. Cost 30,000 bt. or go get OA Visa.. Cheers.

[phuketrichard]

Quote

...or 800000 3 months before

i was told by the head guy in room 103 its 2 months and he gave me a letter that he signed stating this

[Fairynuff]

It’s pretty clear that leniency is not going to happen. It’s also clear that not only every office has its own rules/interpretation but every individual officer has his/her own rules. What chance do we stand really? I believe more and more will go the agent route which is probably what they really want. From my point of view I don’t think it’s a bad idea to use an agent if it simplifies and guarantees things

[Jingthing]

23 minutes ago, Fairynuff said:

It’s pretty clear that leniency is not going to happen. It’s also clear that not only every office has its own rules/interpretation but every individual officer has his/her own rules. What chance do we stand really? I believe more and more will go the agent route which is probably what they really want. From my point of view I don’t think it’s a bad idea to use an agent if it simplifies and guarantees things

Guarantees for the current extension but the question the OP raised was building a dependency on agents which in the short or long run could leave expats vulnerable. 

[Fairynuff]

31 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Guarantees for the current extension but the question the OP raised was building a dependency on agents which in the short or long run could leave expats vulnerable. 

We’re always vulnerable, a fact of life here which we either accept or move on. 

[Jingthing]

11 minutes ago, Fairynuff said:

We’re always vulnerable, a fact of life here which we either accept or move on. 

Agreed but personally I like to have a greater personal control over my own applications. Doing that without agents does that.