Retirement Extension at CW yesterday - a mixed bag

[Rod the Sod]

As always I went with my Legal Representative/Visa Specialist/Agent (who knows?) to extend my Non-O Retirement Visa at CW yesterday. I knew all my papers were in order but I like to have a man in the know in case I need him. Yesterday I did.

 

All progressing well until I was told there was a problem with an old entry stamp. My "man" advised me that nowadays (and this I am told is new since things toughened up in February) the IO will check every single entry and departure stamp in your Passport since the passport began - even to prior years. Last June I had re-entered Thailand after a few days in Jakarta. Despite putting my visa details on the Arrival Form, the IO stamped me in as a Tourist with a 30-day visa. I never noticed because like everyone, I grab my Passport, thank the IO and head for my luggage. Subsequent trips in and out were no problem until yesterday. The error by the Airport IO had invalidated my RV immediately. Nothing done subsequently could reinstate it. The IO refused to extend my visa as the original Non-O had been, in effect cancelled. He accepted that it was the fault of the IO last June, but they would not change an old stamp to rectify it. Basically, tough luck.

 

This is where "the man" becomes worth his weight in gold. He argued (I could see this from afar) and reasoned with the IO and in the end he got the extension for 12 months on the condition that next year I had to return with a new Passport. Any other approach will not work.

 

Here is the bit I found interesting. The IO had made the point that all they could ever work on, was the paperwork in front of them. They do not know if the Foreigner is a good guy or a bad guy. They have no inside knowledge in most cases (I presume they do if there is a dodgy track record). I was allowed my extension because my man argued successfully that I was one of the good guys. It was my lucky day.

 

Thanks to UJ for his advice yesterday, and he feels it is unlikely I can get any changes to my original stamp made. This leaves me with the option of obtaining a new passport, re-entering on a Tourist Visa and then starting again to apply for a RV - all prior to my renewal in 2020. I could get a new Passport and then transfer the old visa across (this is my preferred option actually). Either way it has cost me 5 lost years of my current passport and all the associated hassles and fees. The lesson learnt, and the message emphasised by the IO was that it is our responsibility to check the stamps. The IOs stamp many passports in a day and mistakes are sometimes made. An interesting angle, but not surprising given where we are.

 

I did express the view that it was unlikely that the same IO would look at my case next year, and even less likely that he would go back two years. Alas, the response was that there is only one IO who does this check, he would mark his files accordingly, and he would go back over every entry in the passport next year. He told my man that if he saw this passport again with this same stamp in it, I would have my extension application declined.

 

So readers, check your stamps every time when you enter Thailand. Yesterday I was glad I had my man with me. I do not blame CW and the process, just left a tad frustrated that the error made initially by Immigration is left for me to fix and pay for.

 

Hope it helps someone in the future from having a similar experience. Cheers

 

RtS

[brewsterbudgen]

As always I went with my Legal Representative/Visa Specialist/Agent (who knows?) to extend my Non-O Retirement Visa at CW yesterday. I knew all my papers were in order but I like to have a man in the know in case I need him. Yesterday I did.
 
All progressing well until I was told there was a problem with an old entry stamp. My "man" advised me that nowadays (and this I am told is new since things toughened up in February) the IO will check every single entry and departure stamp in your Passport since the passport began - even to prior years. Last June I had re-entered Thailand after a few days in Jakarta. Despite putting my visa details on the Arrival Form, the IO stamped me in as a Tourist with a 30-day visa. I never noticed because like everyone, I grab my Passport, thank the IO and head for my luggage. Subsequent trips in and out were no problem until yesterday. The error by the Airport IO had invalidated my RV immediately. Nothing done subsequently could reinstate it. The IO refused to extend my visa as the original Non-O had been, in effect cancelled. He accepted that it was the fault of the IO last June, but they would not change an old stamp to rectify it. Basically, tough luck.
 
This is where "the man" becomes worth his weight in gold. He argued (I could see this from afar) and reasoned with the IO and in the end he got the extension for 12 months on the condition that next year I had to return with a new Passport. Any other approach will not work.
 
Here is the bit I found interesting. The IO had made the point that all they could ever work on, was the paperwork in front of them. They do not know if the Foreigner is a good guy or a bad guy. They have no inside knowledge in most cases (I presume they do if there is a dodgy track record). I was allowed my extension because my man argued successfully that I was one of the good guys. It was my lucky day.
 
Thanks to UJ for his advice yesterday, and he feels it is unlikely I can get any changes to my original stamp made. This leaves me with the option of obtaining a new passport, re-entering on a Tourist Visa and then starting again to apply for a RV - all prior to my renewal in 2020. I could get a new Passport and then transfer the old visa across (this is my preferred option actually). Either way it has cost me 5 lost years of my current passport and all the associated hassles and fees. The lesson learnt, and the message emphasised by the IO was that it is our responsibility to check the stamps. The IOs stamp many passports in a day and mistakes are sometimes made. An interesting angle, but not surprising given where we are.
 
I did express the view that it was unlikely that the same IO would look at my case next year, and even less likely that he would go back two years. Alas, the response was that there is only one IO who does this check, he would mark his files accordingly, and he would go back over every entry in the passport next year. He told my man that if he saw this passport again with this same stamp in it, I would have my extension application declined.
 
So readers, check your stamps every time when you enter Thailand. Yesterday I was glad I had my man with me. I do not blame CW and the process, just left a tad frustrated that the error made initially by Immigration is left for me to fix and pay for.
 
Hope it helps someone in the future from having a similar experience. Cheers
 
RtS

Did you have to show a TM30 receipt?

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

[Rod the Sod]

58 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

Did you have to show a TM30 receipt?

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk
 

I have never done a TM30. My guy said he had completed and filed one for me as part of what he did yesterday. So the answer is yes. 

[tingtongtourist]

Interesting you are told a new passport will fix it.

It is at odds with the many thaivisa experts who say they have everything on file and a new passport does nothing.

[TerryLH]

4 hours ago, Rod the Sod said:

As always I went with my Legal Representative/Visa Specialist/Agent (who knows?)...

I would think you would.

 

Nice report. 

That's why you see so many comments/suggestions to check your stamps when you get them.

[mike787]

45 minutes ago, tingtongtourist said:

Interesting you are told a new passport will fix it.

It is at odds with the many thaivisa experts who say they have everything on file and a new passport does nothing.

Hence, everything depends on the mood of the IO at the specific office, the IO understanding/knowledge and interpretation of Immigration laws. Good luck figuring all this out...like playing Russian roulette with these IO idiots. The only result I expect, and you noticed is, consistent inconsistency. THat's why agents with BIG brown envelopes get the job done. 

[Rod the Sod]

9 hours ago, tingtongtourist said:

Interesting you are told a new passport will fix it.

It is at odds with the many thaivisa experts who say they have everything on file and a new passport does nothing.

Good point. A new passport and a new visa from scratch would fix it. The question is "if I transfer over the old visa to the new passport, would the IO be able to cross reference and keep to his original view?". As you and others say - it is a guessing game with no fixed rules.

[tutsiwarrior]

some years ago I approached passport control at the airport clearly indicating that I had a retirement extension and the idiot stamped me in for 30 days and not for the term of the extension as required...I was seething but got him/her to realise the mistake and correct it...since then I always check the stamp before I get too far away from the airport passport control counter...there have been other similar stories on thaivisa...

 

 

 

[ColeBOzbourne]

tutsiwarrior said, "I always check my stamp before I get too far away from the airport passport control counter."

 

Thanks. I was wondering exactly where people check it. Usually the officer closes my passport, returns it to me, tells me to move along, and calls the next person in line. My passport is very full of many stamps and sometimes it takes a minute to locate the current stamp. I'm wondering if people refuse to budge until they find and verify the stamp, or walk along a short distance and then return and try to get someone's attention if an error was made? How does that work? Thanks.

[tutsiwarrior]

7 minutes ago, ColeBOzbourne said:

tutsiwarrior said, "I always check my stamp before I get too far away from the airport passport control counter."

 

Thanks. I was wondering exactly where people check it. Usually the officer closes my passport, returns it to me, tells me to move along, and calls the next person in line. My passport is very full of many stamps and sometimes it takes a minute to locate the current stamp. I'm wondering if people refuse to budge until they find and verify the stamp, or walk along a short distance and then return and try to get someone's attention if an error was made? How does that work? Thanks.

just make room for the next person in line behind you but don't exit towards the baggage carousels a few steps away...if you find something wrong just return to the counter and say that the stamp is not correct...at least that's what I did about 10 years ago and it worked...

 

of course rather than lose face having to make a correction the IO could simply have airport security smash yer head in with their gun butts but haven't heard of that happenin' yet...

 

 

[thaibeachlovers]

12 hours ago, tingtongtourist said:

Interesting you are told a new passport will fix it.

It is at odds with the many thaivisa experts who say they have everything on file and a new passport does nothing.

That's irrelevant. It's up to the IO to decide what he will do, based on how he feels at the time, if he got lucky last night, and if he had a nice dinner etc.

Every time I went to get an extension at Chiang Mai they made up some new rule that didn't actually exist, except they decided it did. Apparently in Samui they insist on a medical. In other words, if the IO decided a new passport was necessary then a new passport it is. If he decided to stick to the letter of the regulations, the OP would not have got his extension. It's "up to him ( or her )".

Oh my, I really, really hated doing my extensions because it's so completely irrational. In the end, I paid an agent, and worth every satang.

[thaibeachlovers]

21 minutes ago, tutsiwarrior said:

just make room for the next person in line behind you but don't exit towards the baggage carousels a few steps away...if you find something wrong just return to the counter and say that the stamp is not correct...at least that's what I did about 10 years ago and it worked...

 

of course rather than lose face having to make a correction the IO could simply have airport security smash yer head in with their gun butts but haven't heard of that happenin' yet...

 

 

I'm trying to remember where I checked my stamps, but sadly, like most of my past it's slipped away to wherever memories go.

I do know though, that I did always check the stamp before exiting to the carousel, as I had been warned many, many years ago that mistakes can and will be made.

[sfokevin]

I had the same error a couple years ago... I checked and caught it right after exiting and returned to make him correct... But have been paranoid of this ever since as I hear it happens regularly and if you don’t catch it right then and there it is difficult to prove/correct as the arrival card is no longer in your possession... Now I make a point of filling out the arrival card on the plane and with my phone camera I take a picture of the reentry permit and my arrival card with the reentry permit number clearly entered in the visa box... So if there is later a problem I can show where the error was not me forgetting to put the reentry number on the arrival card...

[moontang]

Always direct them to your re-entry permit....

[Kaoboi Bebobp]

I walk 3-4 steps away from the counter and plunge into my passport. I've caught a shortened permission-to-stay date and no stamp on the departure card, which is needed of course for when I leave, showing I had entered legally.

 

Always always check the entry and exit stamps and departure card within a few metres of the IO counter.

[tingtongtourist]

On 5/24/2019 at 11:08 AM, Rod the Sod said:

Good point. A new passport and a new visa from scratch would fix it. The question is "if I transfer over the old visa to the new passport, would the IO be able to cross reference and keep to his original view?". As you and others say - it is a guessing game with no fixed rules.

Yes, as he said, the guy just dosent want to see that stamp in the passport.

Surely he will honour those words if he goes through a new passport.

 

just made me think they do not have as much information filed and available on computer than what some people think. 

 

example: what organised department wants to see the same duplicate paperwork Year after Year after Year for the same married couples..?

 

if they were organised they could easy just file all your marriage information under a referance number/barcode that they give you.

If any thing changes you could notify them, or adjust on a 90 day checkup.

 

if nothing changed they could just bring up your file at the office and you sign that everything is the same

[ballpoint]

Don't people pay attention to what the IO at the airport is doing?  Every time I enter I clearly see him/her looking at my visa and adjusting the date on the stamp prior to stamping my passport.  The date stamp will be set for the default 30 days, so if they don't adjust it you won't be officially entering on your current re-entry permit.

[tingtongtourist]

On 5/24/2019 at 2:37 PM, thaibeachlovers said:

That's irrelevant. It's up to the IO to decide what he will do, based on how he feels at the time, if he got lucky last night, and if he had a nice dinner etc.

Every time I went to get an extension at Chiang Mai they made up some new rule that didn't actually exist, except they decided it did. Apparently in Samui they insist on a medical. In other words, if the IO decided a new passport was necessary then a new passport it is. If he decided to stick to the letter of the regulations, the OP would not have got his extension. It's "up to him ( or her )".

Oh my, I really, really hated doing my extensions because it's so completely irrational. In the end, I paid an agent, and worth every satang.

If you have been given trouble by IOs in the past, then for sure and agent is a must and money well spent.

 

I know a few here even still now doing back to back tourist visas without an agent and have no trouble at all.

 

That is what make me wonder why they hassle certain people and not the other?

 

Maybe they are right in saying it can sometimes depend on your country and your suntan.

 

 

[moontang]

20 hours ago, tingtongtourist said:

If you have been given trouble by IOs in the past, then for sure and agent is a must and money well spent.

 

I know a few here even still now doing back to back tourist visas without an agent and have no trouble at all.

 

That is what make me wonder why they hassle certain people and not the other?

 

Maybe they are right in saying it can sometimes depend on your country and your suntan.

 

 

No doubt about that, but a white person with dreds, beard, and circus pants would be in a worse position than many, yet you see it everyday. Not only are IOs police, but some were military, and the gypsy look seems undisciplined or bad. Beachwear doesn't win you a quick exit, either, but skin color is almost as important as how much money you have (access to). 

[tingtongtourist]

14 hours ago, moontang said:

No doubt about that, but a white person with dreds, beard, and circus pants would be in a worse position than many, yet you see it everyday. Not only are IOs police, but some were military, and the gypsy look seems undisciplined or bad. Beachwear doesn't win you a quick exit, either, but skin color is almost as important as how much money you have (access to). 

you bring up an interesting point in that case you cant fault them.

If i were a IMMs officer id kick those circus pants wearing, smelly, hippy, dreadlock, dont believe in deodorant guys to the curb as well. 

Id let the darkest of suntan and people with no money in before them.

 

 

[moontang]

6 hours ago, tingtongtourist said:

you bring up an interesting point in that case you cant fault them.

If i were a IMMs officer id kick those circus pants wearing, smelly, hippy, dreadlock, dont believe in deodorant guys to the curb as well. 

Id let the darkest of suntan and people with no money in before them.

 

 

Almost anyone can get in a few times, but when people are gaming the system for TVs or any other gray area, it is best to look on the conservative side. 

[fhickson]

Bringing up a mistake with an io at a border crossing would have to be done with tact. Would mention it to them directly and not involve superiors.

[JohnOFphon]

I put a paper clip on the page that the IO will stamp so when it is returned to me closed, I can quickly open the page that was just stamped.

I had a wrong date stamped once....not fun if you don't see it until too late.