Defiant Thanathorn rejects court order, vows to pursue prime minister’s post

[scorecard]

2 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

His defiance is good for the nation. Someone has to stand up to the corrupt imbeciles, who are desperately trying to cling to power. He is what is needed at this time. Fresh energy, youth, and business experience. He would have been the best choice for PM, hands down. Not the incompetent that this nation has already suffered under for the past five years. Prayuth is the last man in the world who should be leading this nation. 

Agree. Given the dirty tricks at play right now, seems to me it's likely to fall back to Khun Thanatorns' team to be a serious focused and demanding opposition. And what they say in parliament can't be used to sue them, so they have, it seems, an open book to strongly challenge and to strongly put forward new ideas / changes to laws etc.

 

Sure the PMs coalition have the upper hand in numbers but the FF and coalition could make life very difficult for them and continuously alert the public to different ways to think / analyze / to structure better ways forward.

 

I hope the FF coalition even if need be without Khun Thanathorn for a while, raise hell. 

 

A side comment to this, the FF is in a coalition with PT (and more), seems to me that the FF folks are the only group (within the coalition) who have the more worldly knowledge and understanding of what real honest good governance should look like and therefore they will need to lead, I say again, I hope they raise hell, every day. 

 

 

[Srikcir]

3 hours ago, candide said:

In Thailand, governments have no power on the judiciary.

Just a nuanced restatement:

'In Thailand, elected governments have no power on the judiciary.'

 

Remember, until the next elected government is "installed" (publicly endorsed), Prayut continues in power as Chief of the NCPO and possess Article 44. Note also that according to precedents, it is the incumbent PM that presents the new (regardless of whether created by an election or coup) Executive Branch (PM and Cabinet members) for endorsement. From that perspective Prayut has considerable potential influence over all government agencies and institutions.

[poohy]

I like the guy!

Sadly the junta and other "powers" will stop at nothing to be rid of him.

Murder squads are in Laos searching for Thai dissidents others are being brought home from other countries in secret to whatever heinous fate.

 

The junta although supposedly in power is running scared, and This bloke is high profile lets hope nothing happens untoward to him i would suggest checking his cars brakes and increasing his body guards

[Srikcir]

7 hours ago, webfact said:

Defiant Thanathorn rejects court order, vows to pursue prime minister’s post (my bold emphasis)

I believe this is a misstatement.

 

The only court action to date is to suspend him from entering the parliament to take his seat as an MP - thus unable to vote in any parliament events. He made no statement with regard to disobeying that suspension - only that "he disagreed with the Constitutional Court’s order to suspend his parliamentary membership." Disagreement is a privilege of a defendant!

As the court did not (yet) ban him from the parliament and politics in general, I don't see him being prevented from pressing ahead (ie.,"talking") with his pursuit of the prime minister’s position in the new parliament. Freedom of Speech is an alleged tenet of the constitution.

 

It may be within the court's prerogative to "gag" Thanathorn from further political activity outside the Parliament if it can make a case that such would prejudice the case in his favor. Such a gag order would, however, seem irrational in any case as CC judges are traditionally selected by coup governments and there's no jury involved throughout Thailand's entire judicial system.

[Ozman52]

1 hour ago, GarryP said:

New Thai citizens can't vote in elections until 5 years have passed from obtaining citizenship. We also can't become members of parliament, but I don't think anything is stopping us from otherwise participating in politics.  I voice my opinion, but am obviously careful about 112, which any sensible Thai would be.  

 

However, I think for the most part Thais are not really interested in what expats/retirees have to say as most do not have the language skills to even understand what we are saying. 

 

In this case, the court is about as far from neutral as can be as it has accepted a case that the EC has not even concluded yet.  Reviewing recent decisions of this court, one can see a clear bias for the military/elite faction. 

 

As to the EC, the lightning speed of investigations against the pro-democracy side compared to the snail like pace against those on the military/elite faction would be laughable if it wasn't so sad.  Top that off with the ridiculous ruling of the EC on the sponsored dinner for Palangprachrat, i.e. "money did not come from foreign sources, so it is okay", when the issue raised was totally different. 

 

The whole state of affairs shows how badly the generals and their sponsors misjudged the whole situation. Changing the election process and seat allocation as they did, they thought it was a forgone conclusion that they would just walk back in. They could not have been any more mistaken. As a result, they are now doing whatever they can to get rid of the opposition, even if that means showing to the world that they control the EC and the judges. They know no shame and are not worthy of any respect.    

Have you considered that if you wish to discuss THAI politics with THAI people, it is not "they" that have the lack of language skills?

[Artisi]

3 hours ago, toenail said:

This guy & his professor friend are smart cookies- the junta cannot intellectually compete with these two men. The junta regime can only twist the law and use threats to their advantage. 

And in a nut shell, there is the whole problem, the junta is out of their depths in the intelligence dept. and can only compete with threats, guns, and by re-arranging the deck chairs to suit their own self centred agenda. 

[GarryP]

52 minutes ago, Ozman52 said:

Have you considered that if you wish to discuss THAI politics with THAI people, it is not "they" that have the lack of language skills?

I am fluent in Thai language and know more about Thai politics than many of my Thai colleagues and we talk politics frequently.

 

What I was talking about was posting comments online in English. What proportion of the Thai population could understand them? 10 to 20 Percent?  

[scorecard]

1 minute ago, GarryP said:

I am fluent in Thai language and know more about Thai politics than many of my Thai colleagues and we talk politics frequently.

 

What I was talking about was posting comments online in English. What proportion of the Thai population could understand them? 10 to 20 Percent?  

 A twist, my Thai adult son is very familiar with the political games here in his own country, right now and for the last 2 decades at least, and he's also well aware of what it looks like in several well developed western countries.

 

He's tried many time to slowly and carefully explain his understanding and how it should be better (not by comparisons to other countries, that doesn't work with many Thais) to his Thai buddies, most of them well educated. Most don't accept what he says, they tell him 'you are wrong'.

 

 

[Odysseus123]

6 minutes ago, scorecard said:

 A twist, my Thai adult son is very familiar with the political games here in his own country, right now and for the last 2 decades at least, and he's also well aware of what it looks like in several well developed western countries.

 

He's tried many time to slowly and carefully explain his understanding and how it should be better (not by comparisons to other countries, that doesn't work with many Thais) to his Thai buddies, most of them well educated. Most don't accept what he says, they tell him 'you are wrong'.

 

 

Ah..yes..wandering around an intellectual concentration camp of their own making and their own choosing.

 

Nothing that anyone can really do about that.

 

Still,enough folks voted for Mr Thanathorn to state "We want to be free.."

[Artisi]

9 minutes ago, scorecard said:

 A twist, my Thai adult son is very familiar with the political games here in his own country, right now and for the last 2 decades at least, and he's also well aware of what it looks like in several well developed western countries.

 

He's tried many time to slowly and carefully explain his understanding and how it should be better (not by comparisons to other countries, that doesn't work with many Thais) to his Thai buddies, most of them well educated. Most don't accept what he says, they tell him 'you are wrong'.

 

 

Unfortunately, yes that's the big problem - Thailand think different, farang ideas no good. 

Starts at school "good morning class, sit down, open your books, and shut up" 

[Artisi]

3 minutes ago, Odysseus123 said:

Ah..yes..wandering around an intellectual concentration camp of their own making and their own choosing.

 

Nothing that anyone can really do about that.

 

Still,enough folks voted for Mr Thanathorn to state "We want to be free.."

Would be nice to see some of the 7mil. + who voted for Thanathorn to start voicing their  opinion and protest - but it's the Thai way mai bpen rai. 

[GarryP]

5 minutes ago, Artisi said:

Would be nice to see some of the 7mil. + who voted for Thanathorn to start voicing their  opinion and protest - but it's the Thai way mai bpen rai. 

They have gone wild on Twitter. But Thanathorn has expressly stated that he does not want FFP supporters to come out in to protest as he believes it will be playing into the junta's hands and they will gain nothing from it. 

[scorecard]

9 minutes ago, Odysseus123 said:

Ah..yes..wandering around an intellectual concentration camp of their own making and their own choosing.

 

Nothing that anyone can really do about that.

 

Still,enough folks voted for Mr Thanathorn to state "We want to be free.."

 'free'.  I wonder about that, it seems to me that many many Thais expect that someone should be their controller, whether consciously or unconsciously, because they have been brainwashed in this department, and many don't yet see or even envisage free / open thought and expressing open thought an own opinions, and there are many social taboos / expected behaviors which don't help. So sad.

 

But what I think they were saying in the recent election is that they want change. But how many can really explain what change they want and why is, I suspect, another puzzle? 

 

[scorecard]

1 minute ago, GarryP said:

They have gone wild on Twitter. But Thanathorn has expressly stated that he does not want FFP supporters to come out in to protest as he believes it will be playing into the junta's hands and they will gain nothing from it. 

Interesting and hopefully that means Khun Thanatorn is well realizing they need to push but keep the push in some balance and within some boundaries. 

 

 

[Odysseus123]

1 minute ago, scorecard said:

 'free'.  I wonder about that, it seems to me that many many Thais expect that someone should be their controller, whether consciously or unconsciously, because they have been brainwashed in this department, and many don't yet see or even envisage free / open thought and expressing open thought an own opinions, and there are many social taboos / expected behaviors which don't help. So sad.

 

But what I think they were saying in the recent election is that they want change. But how many can really explain what change they want and why is, I suspect, another puzzle? 

 

Interesting and thought provoking post.Thank you.

 

In a sense "Libertas"  (Roman) is a most unThai idea.

 

Did not a noble king abolish the graap in the 19th century only for it to reappear in modern times?

[spidermike007]

3 hours ago, scorecard said:

Agree. Given the dirty tricks at play right now, seems to me it's likely to fall back to Khun Thanatorns' team to be a serious focused and demanding opposition. And what they say in parliament can't be used to sue them, so they have, it seems, an open book to strongly challenge and to strongly put forward new ideas / changes to laws etc.

 

Sure the PMs coalition have the upper hand in numbers but the FF and coalition could make life very difficult for them and continuously alert the public to different ways to think / analyze / to structure better ways forward.

 

I hope the FF coalition even if need be without Khun Thanathorn for a while, raise hell. 

 

A side comment to this, the FF is in a coalition with PT (and more), seems to me that the FF folks are the only group (within the coalition) who have the more worldly knowledge and understanding of what real honest good governance should look like and therefore they will need to lead, I say again, I hope they raise hell, every day. 

 

 

Well stated. I hope they raise hell too. Prayuth and the army need to be challenged daily. They have gone virtually unchecked for five years now, and look at the outcome. It has been a disaster. He is a disaster. The army is a disaster for this nation. Let us hope some change and progress is possible. 

[Artisi]

28 minutes ago, GarryP said:

They have gone wild on Twitter. But Thanathorn has expressly stated that he does not want FFP supporters to come out in to protest as he believes it will be playing into the junta's hands and they will gain nothing from it. 

Trust they keep it up. 

Not being a twitter fan this is good news to me 

 

[Artisi]

15 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

Well stated. I hope they raise hell too. Prayuth and the army need to be challenged daily. They have gone virtually unchecked for five years now, and look at the outcome. It has been a disaster. He is a disaster. The army is a disaster for this nation. Let us hope some change and progress is possible. 

Unfortunately with an ongoing junta controlled government, Thailand will become a permanent disaster. 

[TKDfella]

5 hours ago, tingtongtourist said:

AFAIK, its actual visa law that foriegners cannot be involved in politics.

 

Dont matter what the visa, if married or have kids. Citizenship might be different, i dont know.

Whether it includes discussion/criticism i dont know also, but for sure if Thais criticised certain things/people on Facebook they would probably get carted away for attitude adjustment or worse.

 

I have said for long time (and read others saying) watch out what you say on here or it could come back to bite you.

 

By now you would think with all these new visa tightening things happening, some people might take a hint..but no!!

 

If we dont want more harsh visa restrictions maybe its time to shut out traps?

 

If certain people rule again (and its for many years) DONT be suprised if they start applying laws to foriegners that

"talk to much" as harsh as they would do to a Thai person.

 

There are probably only a few reasons why it is not happening already.

 

Right. And I don't understand why perthuniversity mentioned expats in the first place. He must realise what I, you and others have said that basically it would be very unwise for expats here to get involved.

[Baerboxer]

11 hours ago, perthuniversity said:

quite a few years involved in politics myself, i've never seen such a clear cut case of one man willing to sacrifice everything for not only democracy, but freedom of speech and equality, thoroughly impressed, i would love to see the expat community (whereever they may be located) to get behind this movement, we all know inequality is an ugly beast in thailand, and it's now time to set things straight - go thanathorn

 

So during your years in politics you were o k with politicians breaking the rules so long as you approve of them politically? 

 

Supporting or not supporting this movement is a matter for the Thai people, not expats. A considerable number took them at face value and voted for them. I hope they're not disappointed as before.

 

[Baerboxer]

4 hours ago, poohy said:

I like the guy!

Sadly the junta and other "powers" will stop at nothing to be rid of him.

Murder squads are in Laos searching for Thai dissidents others are being brought home from other countries in secret to whatever heinous fate.

 

The junta although supposedly in power is running scared, and This bloke is high profile lets hope nothing happens untoward to him i would suggest checking his cars brakes and increasing his body guards

 

Do you have any proof or examples to support your hyperbolic second third sentence?

[Baerboxer]

Regardless of the facts of the share transfer, which seem incredibly hard to establish, it doesn't bode well when a newly elected potential MP and even PM says he'll reject a court order and implies verdicts are only "fair" when he likes the result. 

 

As a new broom in politics it would be nice if he actually respected the courts decision. If he can prove he transferred the shares when he said he did he's in the clear.

 

Doesn't respect speed limits on roads, no says he'll ignore a court verdict. Not a good start!

[Fex Bluse]

9 minutes ago, Artisi said:

Ex-pat community, 90% of Thais wouldn't even know what that was, and do you really think we count for one iota in the scheme of the existence of Thailand. If all ex-pats left tomorrow, Thailand wouldn't even notice. 

You and I agree. 

 

What I am saying is it's a ridiculous idea to suggest that expats should organize around any candidates. No disrespect meant for the OP. I mean, it's such a ridiculous idea that I would almost wonder if some Thai Thanathorn supporter would have posted it. It's outrageous. 

 

If anyone out there disagrees, I would invite several farang to organize some visible rallies proclaiming their support of Thanathorn. Let's see how they go. 

 

They can feel free to do it officially through foreign correspondents clubs, or chambers of commerce, or similar. Or informally out in the streets. ????

[GarryP]

3 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

Regardless of the facts of the share transfer, which seem incredibly hard to establish, it doesn't bode well when a newly elected potential MP and even PM says he'll reject a court order and implies verdicts are only "fair" when he likes the result. 

 

As a new broom in politics it would be nice if he actually respected the courts decision. If he can prove he transferred the shares when he said he did he's in the clear.

 

Doesn't respect speed limits on roads, no says he'll ignore a court verdict. Not a good start!

He did not reject the court order. He said he did not agree with it. There is a difference. 

 

As to speed limits, not many people seem to respect them in Thailand. I also understand that he wasn't actually driving.

[candide]

4 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

Regardless of the facts of the share transfer, which seem incredibly hard to establish, it doesn't bode well when a newly elected potential MP and even PM says he'll reject a court order and implies verdicts are only "fair" when he likes the result. 

 

As a new broom in politics it would be nice if he actually respected the courts decision. If he can prove he transferred the shares when he said he did he's in the clear.

 

Doesn't respect speed limits on roads, no says he'll ignore a court verdict. Not a good start!

Well, courts can be be qualified as fair when they are fair, which is quite doubtful.

 

In this particular case, it is quite obvious how it will be ruled. Whatever proofs he may bring, they will rule that only the report which is published once a year matters, and they will nail him.

 

Meanwhile, yellow owners of media share will see their case postponed and eventually forgotten or declared void.

 

They simply cannot let people think that one can threaten the army's power as he did and get unpunished. 

[candide]

5 hours ago, scorecard said:

And what they say in parliament can't be used to sue them, so they have, it seems, an open book to strongly challenge and to strongly put forward new ideas / changes to laws etc.

It is far from obvious. They have put plenty of traps in various laws that can be interpreted in any way they want, i.e. they can get them for threatening national security, destroying harmony between Thai people, computer crime, defamation, etc... They have made all these laws knowing that they would not let anyone else in power.

[greeneking]

37 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

Regardless of the facts of the share transfer, which seem incredibly hard to establish, it doesn't bode well when a newly elected potential MP and even PM says he'll reject a court order and implies verdicts are only "fair" when he likes the result. 

 

As a new broom in politics it would be nice if he actually respected the courts decision. If he can prove he transferred the shares when he said he did he's in the clear.

 

Doesn't respect speed limits on roads, no says he'll ignore a court verdict. Not a good start!

The only rational stance now is not to respect the law and explain why.

[Ozman52]

35 minutes ago, GarryP said:

He did not reject the court order. He said he did not agree with it. There is a difference. 

 

As to speed limits, not many people seem to respect them in Thailand. I also understand that he wasn't actually driving.

Well, yes, he was breaking one law (repeatedly) to comply with another (allegedly), and I suppose if you can afford a driver that relieves you of all responsibility. OTOH, driving at 129-139km/h you might have thought he could get from Surin to Pathom Thani in less than 23 hours.

[greeneking]

Television is by far the most popular medium in Thailand. Almost 80 percent of Thais are estimated to rely on television as their primary source of news. Major television stations are owned and controlled by the Royal Thai Army or and Government. Wikipedia

So much for principled concerns about media ownership and fairness. Add on fear of various laws concerning defamation, posting online, censorship and self censorship.

But watching International news yesterday there was little interest in this misguided country's goings on.

 

 

[sjaak327]

8 hours ago, rabas said:

Ah, and none of that would have happened with out the corrupt Shinawatra's, their puppet PMs (3), and unspeakable violent acts. History is our friend, but does not like parts left behind.

All of which obtained a valid mandate, they were there because the Thai people put them there, I don't get it, why do westerners that are seemingly educated not see this valid and undisputable point. Maybe the western education system isn't all that good, or Thailand just attracts the underachievers.