Defiant Thanathorn rejects court order, vows to pursue prime minister’s post

[scorecard]

2 hours ago, sjaak327 said:

All of which obtained a valid mandate, they were there because the Thai people put them there, I don't get it, why do westerners that are seemingly educated not see this valid and undisputable point. Maybe the western education system isn't all that good, or Thailand just attracts the underachievers. 

You try to make it so simple, it's absolutely not that simple and you know it.  

 

Not necessary or appropriate to make the 'underachievers' comment. 

 

 

[Eligius]

5 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

Well stated. I hope they raise hell too. Prayuth and the army need to be challenged daily. They have gone virtually unchecked for five years now, and look at the outcome. It has been a disaster. He is a disaster. The army is a disaster for this nation. Let us hope some change and progress is possible. 

Totally agree with you, Spidermike007 (above).

But I predict that P.M. Prayut (we all know it's going to be him) or his lackeys in uniform will start ejecting any MPs who speak out vigorously against his ideas and edicts: some new, concocted 'rules' will be invoked about 'respecting the Leader and not confusing the public with impolite ideas or misleading information' - and so MPs will be silenced or ejected from the chamber. The stitch-up of the nation will continue - just in a different forum and in a slightly different form.

Do you think a d-di--dinosaur will give up his authoritarian/autocratic manner, mode and approach so easily, just because there is now a 'democratically elected' parliament in place and (allegedly) no longer a junta?!

 

I do not believe that for one second.

 

 

[sjaak327]

1 hour ago, scorecard said:

You try to make it so simple, it's absolutely not that simple and you know it.  

 

Not necessary or appropriate to make the 'underachievers' comment. 

 

 

Actually it is. After all is said and done, the Shinawatras or more precisely Thaksin, is very populair with a large part of the electorate, despite all of his antics, if one knows about what he has done for these people over the years, it is hardly surprising. Like it or hate it, he has manouvered himself (as a billionaire no less) as the guy that can make a difference against the ruling elite that controls Thailand for many decades. And considering the downright fear the current junta has for him, I guess that assesment is pretty accurate. 

 

Any corruption or breaking of laws can and should be addressed by the checks and balances in place. The 2007 constitution had plenty of them, there was no reason to stage a coup just to get rid of Thaksin or Yingluck. By breaking the law this blatantly, any goodwill was out of the window from the get go, and the remark that cure is worse than the disease is very applicable to this situation. 

 

I am pretty sure I made a comment to you some 6 years ago, in which I stated, that the intent is to not try and win elections, but to make elections matter less. This is exactly what they have been doing the past five years, and I made that statement before they even staged the coup.

 

which brings me to the underachiever comment, anyone supporting a coup, cannot be very bright, especially not, if they apparently believed the propaganda. It shows a sheer unawareness of recent Thai history, and the persons involved. 

 

 

[poohy]

6 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Do you have any proof or examples to support your hyperbolic second third sentence?

Read Andrew Marshal macgregor  i would tend to believe him more than the junta

look up faiyen band

 

that will shut you up!  

[chama]

If Thanathorn tries to play fair he will be blocked at every pass. He may have to move to more unconventional methods to call out those who are using underhanded methods to mute him.

[Eligius]

19 minutes ago, chama said:

If Thanathorn tries to play fair he will be blocked at every pass. He may have to move to more unconventional methods to call out those who are using underhanded methods to mute him.

As much as I respect and admire Thanathorn, it has become clear to me in recent weeks that he is extremely naive - well-intentioned, but dangerously naive. 

For example: as soon as I heard him publicly speak about having lent 110 million baht to his party, I told a Thai colleague: 'The junta will use this against him - somehow'. And lo and behold - that is precisely what they are doing/ engineering now.

 

Thanathorn suffers from the disadvantage of many truly decent and honourable people: he simply has no imagination or conception of how downright dishonourable and evil his opponents can be!

 

[Odysseus123]

16 minutes ago, Eligius said:

As much as I respect and admire Thanathorn, it has become clear to me in recent weeks that he is extremely naive - well-intentioned, but dangerously naive. ...

 

Sorry for the cut and paste but I agree with your observation.

In a sense tho' he required a certain naivety to charge undaunted into a "scripted" political reality and give the thing a genuine shake.I think that is one of the things that his supporters admire about him-a remarkable degree of freshness in a tired old game.

[ocddave]

15 minutes ago, Eligius said:

As much as I respect and admire Thanathorn, it has become clear to me in recent weeks that he is extremely naive - well-intentioned, but dangerously naive. 

For example: as soon as I heard him publicly speak about having lent 110 million baht to his party, I told a Thai colleague: 'The junta will use this against him - somehow'. And lo and behold - that is precisely what they are doing/ engineering now.

 

Thanathorn suffers from the disadvantage of many truly decent and honourable people: he simply has no imagination or conception of how downright dishonourable and evil his opponents can be!

 

Call it "naive", or maybe he just believes someone has to stand up to the machine, even if it is means putting your life on the line. I am sure many people in history knew they may have been killed standing up to authoritarian/oppressive governments, but they did it anyway, somebody has to have the guts, maybe more will follow.....in this case a significant amount of Thai's agreed with him, not enough to unseat the Elite's in other parties, but they sure woke up when they saw the results, look at the Democrat Party, they were decimated.

[connda]

6 hours ago, greeneking said:

Almost 80 percent of Thais are estimated to rely on television as their primary source of news.

Those who depend on TV to obtain their news and world-view are about as smart as a crate-load of hammers.  And that's not just Thais, but given the statistic above - do the math.  

 

[Odysseus123]

It has been interesting to observe the reactions of the Thai expatriates over here.Given their tendency to self censor (for obvious reasons) they displayed a remarkable degree of enthusiasm for the princess and Mr Thanathorn..

 

But now they know the end game has come and have shut down entirely and are in "coolie" mode.

[scorecard]

6 hours ago, Odysseus123 said:

Sorry for the cut and paste but I agree with your observation.

In a sense tho' he required a certain naivety to charge undaunted into a "scripted" political reality and give the thing a genuine shake.I think that is one of the things that his supporters admire about him-a remarkable degree of freshness in a tired old game.

In terms of the naive, I would add a bit disorganized. My example is that he has lots of personal resources available to him and should have had someone / a small team, possibly including a knowledgeable personal lawyer (the cost is not a problem) watching all of his personal affairs to spot any possible roadblocks and get them removed / sidelined etc.

 

Regardless of this I hope he makes a big impact, I hope he makes life very difficult for the government by continuous focused challenge (if he's the opposition) and makes the electorate much more aware of how things can be / should be very different, and why.

[Ozman52]

7 hours ago, Eligius said:

As much as I respect and admire Thanathorn, it has become clear to me in recent weeks that he is extremely naive - well-intentioned, but dangerously naive. 

For example: as soon as I heard him publicly speak about having lent 110 million baht to his party, I told a Thai colleague: 'The junta will use this against him - somehow'. And lo and behold - that is precisely what they are doing/ engineering now.

 

Thanathorn suffers from the disadvantage of many truly decent and honourable people: he simply has no imagination or conception of how downright dishonourable and evil his opponents can be!

 

Do people normally "loan" money to political parties? Or was this just a way to circumvent donation limit laws? Do you think the laws regarding donations and which organisations are allowed to receive loans were enacted recently; engineered to frustrate an opponent, or have they been if force for some time and ignored at peril?

 

Is the enforcement of laws regarding political parties dishonourable and evil, or should they not apply to rich men who decide to buy themselves a political party?

[scorecard]

25 minutes ago, Ozman52 said:

Do people normally "loan" money to political parties? Or was this just a way to circumvent donation limit laws? Do you think the laws regarding donations and which organisations are allowed to receive loans were enacted recently; engineered to frustrate an opponent, or have they been if force for some time and ignored at peril?

 

Is the enforcement of laws regarding political parties dishonourable and evil, or should they not apply to rich men who decide to buy themselves a political party?

I agree 'buying or manufacturing' one's own political party is highly undesirable and there's plenty of evidence of how very undesirable (evil) it can be right on our doorstep.

 

So one would hope that as quickly as possible the funds are returned to Khun Thanathorn to remove / quash any indications or reality that he owns the party.  

 

As being said right now by many folks he needs to be very careful he doesn't give the military party and reason whatever to make cases against him and I hope by now he's got a small team including a knowledgeable personal lawyer watching this subject like a hawk.

 

In fact it surprises me that his sidekick in forming FF, the very smart law professor wasn't pushing for a team to already be monitoring all of this, both in terms of Khun Thanathorn's personal affairs and all of the party affairs that could lead to excuses for the military to try to sue them / sideline them.

 

Regardless I wish them great success to shake things up and to educate the populace why things should be different and the fact and realities of how they can be different and push for action, even as an opposition. 

 

 

 

 

[metisdead]

Off topic posts and replies have been removed. The topic is not about the demographics of expats in Thailand. 

[Ozman52]

21 minutes ago, scorecard said:

I agree 'buying or manufacturing' one's own political party is highly undesirable and there's plenty of evidence of how very undesirable (evil) it can be right on our doorstep.

 

So one would hope that as quickly as possible the funds are returned to Khun Thanathorn to remove / quash any indications or reality that he owns the party.  

 

As being said right now by many folks he needs to be very careful he doesn't give the military party and reason whatever to make cases against him and I hope by now he's got a small team including a knowledgeable personal lawyer watching this subject like a hawk.

 

In fact it surprises me that his sidekick in forming FF, the very smart law professor wasn't pushing for a team to already be monitoring all of this, both in terms of Khun Thanathorn's personal affairs and all of the party affairs that could lead to excuses for the military to try to sue them / sideline them.

 

Regardless I wish them great success to shake things up and to educate the populace why things should be different and the fact and realities of how they can be different and push for action, even as an opposition. 

 

 

 

 

Returning the funds doesn't wipe the crime for bank robbers, or anybody else. Ignorance of the law also usually fails as a defense.

 

The concept that wealthy people are best as politicians because they have a genuine desire to help the people and the country rather than self-aggrandizement or enrichment has been proven flawed far too often for it have any credibility with me. If Thaksin and co were too far back to remember, take a look at what a mess the USA has got itself into.

[scorecard]

26 minutes ago, Ozman52 said:

Returning the funds doesn't wipe the crime for bank robbers, or anybody else. Ignorance of the law also usually fails as a defense.

 

The concept that wealthy people are best as politicians because they have a genuine desire to help the people and the country rather than self-aggrandizement or enrichment has been proven flawed far too often for it have any credibility with me. If Thaksin and co were too far back to remember, take a look at what a mess the USA has got itself into.

I completely agree. The unfortunate thing is that he did lend the money, and my point now is that it be a good to return the money to him as soon as possible to try to mitigate the possible downside.  

[Denim]

13 hours ago, chama said:

If Thanathorn tries to play fair he will be blocked at every pass. He may have to move to more unconventional methods to call out those who are using underhanded methods to mute him.

Well, odious others had their shut down Bangkok to bring down the last government so why not try their methods against them.

 

Suthep even said that if Phua Thai won the election his mob would take to the streets again so obviously this method is perfectly acceptable to the junta.

[tingtongtourist]

On 5/24/2019 at 11:31 AM, GarryP said:

New Thai citizens can't vote in elections until 5 years have passed from obtaining citizenship. We also can't become members of parliament, but I don't think anything is stopping us from otherwise participating in politics.  I voice my opinion, but am obviously careful about 112, which any sensible Thai would be.  

 

However, I think for the most part Thais are not really interested in what expats/retirees have to say as most do not have the language skills to even understand what we are saying. 

 

In this case, the court is about as far from neutral as can be as it has accepted a case that the EC has not even concluded yet.  Reviewing recent decisions of this court, one can see a clear bias for the military/elite faction. 

 

As to the EC, the lightning speed of investigations against the pro-democracy side compared to the snail like pace against those on the military/elite faction would be laughable if it wasn't so sad.  Top that off with the ridiculous ruling of the EC on the sponsored dinner for Palangprachrat, i.e. "money did not come from foreign sources, so it is okay", when the issue raised was totally different. 

 

The whole state of affairs shows how badly the generals and their sponsors misjudged the whole situation. Changing the election process and seat allocation as they did, they thought it was a forgone conclusion that they would just walk back in. They could not have been any more mistaken. As a result, they are now doing whatever they can to get rid of the opposition, even if that means showing to the world that they control the EC and the judges. They know no shame and are not worthy of any respect.    

While I cannot disagree with anything you said, the point of my post was that us saying these things on here will change absolutely nothing.

 

The only thing it do is create more problem for the longstayer.

Thats because certain people do not want farangs "brainwashing" (in their minds) the Thais about corruption, democracy and all the PC stuff we carry on about.

 

If you talking to a Thai you dont know, would you say like this? 

 

would you say it to the Thai army guy you just met?

 

If you could write your complaint in Thai, would you put it on Facebook under your real name?

 

If no to any, then i just dont get why folks would sprout the stuff they do here. 

 

Half of it is BS rumours and stuff just regurgitated from old posters who dont know shเt and cant proof any of there theories!

 

I say, just let them get about their business as they will

and leave us to chase girlies or drink beer or whatever floats your boat!

 

You dont think all PMs have advisers and researchers or even informants?

 

who do you think transcribes the Thai PMs speeches to perfect English on his Television spots?

 

 

[GarryP]

2 hours ago, tingtongtourist said:

While I cannot disagree with anything you said, the point of my post was that us saying these things on here will change absolutely nothing.

 

The only thing it do is create more problem for the longstayer.

Thats because certain people do not want farangs "brainwashing" (in their minds) the Thais about corruption, democracy and all the PC stuff we carry on about.

 

If you talking to a Thai you dont know, would you say like this? 

 

would you say it to the Thai army guy you just met?

 

If you could write your complaint in Thai, would you put it on Facebook under your real name?

 

If no to any, then i just dont get why folks would sprout the stuff they do here. 

 

Half of it is BS rumours and stuff just regurgitated from old posters who dont know shเt and cant proof any of there theories!

 

I say, just let them get about their business as they will

and leave us to chase girlies or drink beer or whatever floats your boat!

 

You dont think all PMs have advisers and researchers or even informants?

 

who do you think transcribes the Thai PMs speeches to perfect English on his Television spots?

 

 

I agree that what is posted on here will change nothing. But it is a good place to vent and share opinions. 

 

Of course I don't speak out to people I don't know but that is not restricted to Thailand. I wouldn't do that in the UK either. I do post stuff under my name on facebook, steering clear of 112, but my page is not open to the public, only friends, 90 percent of whom are Thai. However, they do not all share my ideals. Some are vehemently against anything linked (no matter how tenuously) to Thaksin and others are avowed royalists (this latter group is decreasing in number as they change their views). That does not stop me passing comments.

 

I agree that there are loads of rumours being treated as gospel. So one needs to research and separate the wheat from the chaff.

 

Finally not all of us came to Thailand to chase women or drink. I came here in 1982, not knowing a thing about the country, and no intention of staying long term, but here I am 37 years later. This is my home. This is the reason for my interest in what is happening here. So I will continue to listen to others and share my thoughts, even if they mean nothing to you or others who keeping going on about us foreigners only being "guests". Many have families here so they certainly have a vested interest in the future of this country.   

[from the home of CC]

1 hour ago, GarryP said:

I agree that what is posted on here will change nothing. But it is a good place to vent and share opinions. 

 

Of course I don't speak out to people I don't know but that is not restricted to Thailand. I wouldn't do that in the UK either. I do post stuff under my name on facebook, steering clear of 112, but my page is not open to the public, only friends, 90 percent of whom are Thai. However, they do not all share my ideals. Some are vehemently against anything linked (no matter how tenuously) to Thaksin and others are avowed royalists (this latter group is decreasing in number as they change their views). That does not stop me passing comments.

 

I agree that there are loads of rumours being treated as gospel. So one needs to research and separate the wheat from the chaff.

 

Finally not all of us came to Thailand to chase women or drink. I came here in 1982, not knowing a thing about the country, and no intention of staying long term, but here I am 37 years later. This is my home. This is the reason for my interest in what is happening here. So I will continue to listen to others and share my thoughts, even if they mean nothing to you or others who keeping going on about us foreigners only being "guests". Many have families here so they certainly have a vested interest in the future of this country.   

so you're what, a 108?

[tingtongtourist]

1 hour ago, GarryP said:

I agree that what is posted on here will change nothing. But it is a good place to vent and share opinions. 

 

Of course I don't speak out to people I don't know but that is not restricted to Thailand. I wouldn't do that in the UK either. I do post stuff under my name on facebook, steering clear of 112, but my page is not open to the public, only friends, 90 percent of whom are Thai. However, they do not all share my ideals. Some are vehemently against anything linked (no matter how tenuously) to Thaksin and others are avowed royalists (this latter group is decreasing in number as they change their views). That does not stop me passing comments.

 

I agree that there are loads of rumours being treated as gospel. So one needs to research and separate the wheat from the chaff.

 

Finally not all of us came to Thailand to chase women or drink. I came here in 1982, not knowing a thing about the country, and no intention of staying long term, but here I am 37 years later. This is my home. This is the reason for my interest in what is happening here. So I will continue to listen to others and share my thoughts, even if they mean nothing to you or others who keeping going on about us foreigners only being "guests". Many have families here so they certainly have a vested interest in the future of this country.   

I get that and appreciate it. 

So in your position, older guys who been here for years want to stay without problems, why "rock the boat"??

 

dont make sense if you want to stay long time without problems.

 

Actually I wonder why oldies are not encouraging other new farangs to just shut up about the BS they read and pass it on?

 

Thais will not listen to us, but surely if we complain to much they will notice.

 

If youve kept your eyes open for years you should notice that Thai news and media been making Thai people believe ALL farangnare "mai-dee"...

and it shows if you compare the way we are teated now even on the street!

 

But really every country pollies does this to make a demon out of foriegners anf score points with voters!

 

By complaining about things and to attack certain individuals online just plays right into their hands!

[happy chappie]

A visit from the boys and a little dose of attitude adjustment is all I can see coming his way.

[metisdead]

An off topic post and a reply has been removed.

[scorecard]

6 hours ago, tingtongtourist said:

While I cannot disagree with anything you said, the point of my post was that us saying these things on here will change absolutely nothing.

 

The only thing it do is create more problem for the longstayer.

Thats because certain people do not want farangs "brainwashing" (in their minds) the Thais about corruption, democracy and all the PC stuff we carry on about.

 

If you talking to a Thai you dont know, would you say like this? 

 

would you say it to the Thai army guy you just met?

 

If you could write your complaint in Thai, would you put it on Facebook under your real name?

 

If no to any, then i just dont get why folks would sprout the stuff they do here. 

 

Half of it is BS rumours and stuff just regurgitated from old posters who dont know shเt and cant proof any of there theories!

 

I say, just let them get about their business as they will

and leave us to chase girlies or drink beer or whatever floats your boat!

 

You dont think all PMs have advisers and researchers or even informants?

 

who do you think transcribes the Thai PMs speeches to perfect English on his Television spots?

 

 

 

- Ever heard of freedom of speech?

- Do you not realize many folks on TV have families here, and they want a better situation for their kids and grandkids? So they speak up, I do!

 

 

[ratcatcher]

On 5/24/2019 at 9:27 AM, tingtongtourist said:

He also speaks pretty good English.

Take THAT as you will!!

Being the scion of a well established Thai-Chinese business family (Summit Group, Thailand's largest auto parts manufacturer), it is only to be expected that he speaks English based on his education record.

("Thanathorn attended the Triam Udom Suksa School in Bangkok. After graduating from high school, Thanathorn obtained a joint-honours Bachelor of Engineering (B.Eng.) in Mechanical Engineering from Thammasat University and the University of Nottingham.^[6] During this time, he became President of the Thammasat University Students Union in 1999, and was later named deputy secretary-general of the Students Federation of Thailand.^[7] He later decided to pursue his interest in social and economic issues and obtained three master’s degrees: one in Political Economy from Chulalongkorn University, one in Global Finance from Stern School of Business, New York University and one in International Business Law from the University of St. Gallen.^[8])

 

I daresay there are few people in this country with a better educational record than this man, a record that shows that with a good cabinet of similarly qualified forward thinkers, he poses a massive threat to the "powers that be" and is the man to lead this country out of the gloom that it seems to have been in for a good number of years.

It is also interesting to note that his uncle Suriya is one of the leaders of Phalang Pracharat, one of the main supporters of the junta. He was also Transport Minister under Thaksin.

Worth a read:   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thanathorn_Juangroongruangkit

Put in rather crude terms, he scares the shit out of the establishment.

 

[NanLaew]

On 5/23/2019 at 11:15 PM, Odysseus123 said:

They are in fact,the most disempowered group of Westerners that I have ever observed in all of my ramblings about the planet.

Really? Remind me to tell you about my 'dirty weekend' in Pyongyang.

[Sticky Wicket]

He does seem to have support

[scorecard]

12 hours ago, ratcatcher said:

Being the scion of a well established Thai-Chinese business family (Summit Group, Thailand's largest auto parts manufacturer), it is only to be expected that he speaks English based on his education record.

("Thanathorn attended the Triam Udom Suksa School in Bangkok. After graduating from high school, Thanathorn obtained a joint-honours Bachelor of Engineering (B.Eng.) in Mechanical Engineering from Thammasat University and the University of Nottingham.^[6] During this time, he became President of the Thammasat University Students Union in 1999, and was later named deputy secretary-general of the Students Federation of Thailand.^[7] He later decided to pursue his interest in social and economic issues and obtained three master’s degrees: one in Political Economy from Chulalongkorn University, one in Global Finance from Stern School of Business, New York University and one in International Business Law from the University of St. Gallen.^[8])

 

I daresay there are few people in this country with a better educational record than this man, a record that shows that with a good cabinet of similarly qualified forward thinkers, he poses a massive threat to the "powers that be" and is the man to lead this country out of the gloom that it seems to have been in for a good number of years.

It is also interesting to note that his uncle Suriya is one of the leaders of Phalang Pracharat, one of the main supporters of the junta. He was also Transport Minister under Thaksin.

Worth a read:   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thanathorn_Juangroongruangkit

Put in rather crude terms, he scares the shit out of the establishment.

 

 Bring on the decision of the constitution court to force a real confrontation.  

[GarryP]

15 hours ago, from the home of CC said:

so you're what, a 108?

Someone needs to go back to school. I'm 56. 

[GarryP]

4 minutes ago, scorecard said:

 Bring on the decision of the constitution court to force a real confrontation.  

I don't think he will be found in the wrong in this case because of the knock-on effect for other MPs , particularly in the Palangpracharat party. If the court only takes action against him but not the others who hold shares in "publishing" companies, the bias of the court will be too blatant (and, yes, other cases have been filed with the EC and CCt on this). They will more likely go after him on the 110 million Baht loan he made to FFP as there will be no fallout on other parties.