Current TM30 at CW for extensions based on retirement.

[wobalt]

I have nothing to do with/at immigration


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[fusion58]

5 hours ago, lamyai3 said:

Totally baffled by it myself, never seen a TM30 in two decades here. Never even met my landlady as she let's my condo juristic office deal with contract renewal and maintenance issues.

 

I don't need to do an extension anytime soon, but I'm due to mail in a 90 day report in a few weeks to CW. Anyone know if the lack of a TM30 on file will prevent the mailed 90 day report being acknowledged and accepted?

Same here.

 

In all my years of doing extensions and 90 day reports at CW, I've never been asked for a TM30, so I was essentially blindsided by this thread.

 

To make matters worse, if I understand the rules correctly, only my landlord can submit the TM30 form and accompanying documents to immigration, i.e., I can't submit them myself...?

 

[fusion58]

5 hours ago, Joe Mcseismic said:

Incorrect. There will be a different TM7 number if you have been abroad. The old one in the system needs to be changed, which is why you have to report again, even if your address is the same as the one in the system.

What a <deleted> joke. What's next? Ankle bracelets for all farangs?

 

This sort of thing isn't just a PITA for foreigners - it's a considerable imposition on landlords as well.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if the net effect were to cause landlords to think twice about renting to foreign nationals going forward.

[DrJack54]

10 minutes ago, fusion58 said:

Same here.

 

In all my years of doing extensions and 90 day reports at CW, I've never been asked for a TM30, so I was essentially blindsided by this thread.

 

To make matters worse, if I understand the rules correctly, only my landlord can submit the TM30 form and accompanying documents to immigration, i.e., I can't submit them myself...?

 

I also do my extensions at CW. Never been asked for TM30 in 7 years. However seems things have changed. You can do a tm30 yourself. You can choose to submit as possessor. I plan to do it by mail. Bulldust requirement to add to list.

[Tanoshi]

21 minutes ago, fusion58 said:

To make matters worse, if I understand the rules correctly, only my landlord can submit the TM30 form and accompanying documents to immigration, i.e., I can't submit them myself...?

You can, as the tenant or occupier of the residence you are as equally responsible as the landlord or owner to file a TM30. Often it's the foreigner who is fined.

[fusion58]

3 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

You can, as the tenant or occupier of the residence you are as equally responsible as the landlord or owner to file a TM30. Often it's the foreigner who is fined.

 

This is the advice I received from the Thailand Elite office:

 

Quote

This is the responsibility of your landlord or landlady to notify Immigration of any foreigner staying on his or her property within 24 hours.  If your landlord or landlady has not done this, he or she will have to be fined 1,600 baht per adult in that property.  Foreigners MUST NOT pay this fine.

Considering foreigners are already getting hit with fines, I suppose the foregoing piece of advice merely highlights the disparity between the "letter of the law" and the way(s) in which the law is enforced by the weasels at immigration.

 

[fusion58]

27 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

I also do my extensions at CW. Never been asked for TM30 in 7 years. However seems things have changed. You can do a tm30 yourself. You can choose to submit as possessor. I plan to do it by mail. Bulldust requirement to add to list.

I'm curious as to whether anyone here on TVF who rents has successfully submitted a TM30 (along with the accompanying documents) himself/herself (or via a proxy) in person at CW?

 

I haven't read every TM30-related thread on the forum in its entirety, so I admit I'm probably not up to speed yet.

[Tanoshi]

8 minutes ago, fusion58 said:

This is the advice I received from the Thailand Elite office:

 

Quote

This is the responsibility of your landlord or landlady to notify Immigration of any foreigner staying on his or her property within 24 hours.  If your landlord or landlady has not done this, he or she will have to be fined 1,600 baht per adult in that property.  Foreigners MUST NOT pay this fine.

This is who the law states is responsible:

Section 38 : The house – master , the owner or the possessor of the residence , or the hotel manager
where the alien , receiving permission to stay temporary in the Kingdom has stayed , must notify the
competent official of the Immigration Office located in the same area with that hours , dwelling place or
hotel, within 24 hours from the time of arrival of the alien concerned.

Section 4. In this Act, “ House Master ” means any persons who is the chief possessor of a house , whether in the capacity of owner , tenant , or in any other capacity whatsoever , in accordance with the law on people act.

 

Maybe the Thai Elite office should read the law.

 

10 minutes ago, fusion58 said:

I'm curious as to whether anyone here on TVF who rents has successfully submitted a TM30 (along with the accompanying documents) himself/herself (or via a proxy) in person at CW?

Not at CW, but I've always filed myself at two other offices, using signed copies of the landlords Tabien Baan and ID card. I've now registered to use the online system, all in English, using a copy of my Passport, Tabien Baan and Thai ID card, selecting 'occupier of the residence and received a username and password to login.

If foreigners had no responsibility to file a TM30, why would Immigration allow foreigners to register online.

 

There are many absent landlords, living abroad or in other Provinces who would have no idea of your exits/re-entries back into Thailand, unless you advised them every time and they were registered to file it online.

[fusion58]

13 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

This is who the law states is responsible:

Section 38 : The house – master , the owner or the possessor of the residence , or the hotel manager
where the alien , receiving permission to stay temporary in the Kingdom has stayed , must notify the
competent official of the Immigration Office located in the same area with that hours , dwelling place or
hotel, within 24 hours from the time of arrival of the alien concerned.

Section 4. In this Act, “ House Master ” means any persons who is the chief possessor of a house , whether in the capacity of owner , tenant , or in any other capacity whatsoever , in accordance with the law on people act.

 

Maybe the Thai Elite office should read the law.

 

Not at CW, but I've always filed myself at two other offices, using signed copies of the landlords Tabien Baan and ID card. I've now registered to use the online system, all in English, using a copy of my Passport, Tabien Baan and Thai ID card, selecting 'occupier of the residence and received a username and password to login.

If foreigners had no responsibility to file a TM30, why would Immigration allow foreigners to register online.

 

There are many absent landlords, living abroad or in other Provinces who would have no idea of your exits/re-entries back into Thailand, unless you advised them every time and they were registered to file it online.

...and yet you have TVF members reporting they’ve been asked to show proof of power of attorney for landlords when filing at CW.

 

Perhaps it’s the IOs who need to read the law.

[mtls2005]

 

 

 

2

6 hours ago, Tanoshi said:

I've now registered to use the online system, all in English, using a copy of my Passport, Tabien Baan and Thai ID card, selecting 'occupier of the residence and received a username and password to login.

If foreigners had no responsibility to file a TM30, why would Immigration allow foreigners to register online.

 

You have a Thai ID card? The Tabien Bann is in your name?

 

Most, not all, of the online systems' registration and data entry fields/pages are shown in both Thai and English.

 

 

I assume "foreigners" are allowed to register for the TM30 online system as they can own a condo? Some foreigners can operate hotels and guesthouses.

 

The online system was initially meant for hotels. It has been expanded for use by landlords, owner-residents and apparently, renters who are allowed to self-report. Some Imm offices accept TM30 filings by postal mail and even email, hopefully, all accept them in person (with/without a landlord or PoA in tow). The 24-hour deadline seems more focused on hotels, and leniency seems nearly ubiquitous (maybe a fine) for late self-reporters.

 

Div. 1/CW seems to require a valid TM30 in order to complete an ext stay. Some report success with a TM47/90-day report filing (in person, online and postal mail) without the TM30 challenge, while there have been reports of the 90-day report (in person, online) being rejected until the TM30 filing was completed. I was able to complete an online 90-day report without a valid TM30 filing.

 

I would recommend having a valid TM30 on file before attempting an ext stay renewal if only to save time, hassles and a potential fine.

 

 

 

 

[mtls2005]

6 hours ago, fusion58 said:

...and yet you have TVF members reporting they’ve been asked to show proof of power of attorney for landlords when filing at CW.

 

I've yet to hear a report of the PoA being required, but I haven't read every thread/post. The PoA requires some sort of "stamps", which I admit to being unfamiliar with.

 

Self-reports in person seem ok with some/all:

 

For those in Bangkok: Documentation for self filing a TM.30 are
Copies of;
-the blue book (signed by the thai)
-the thai i/d of the person in the blue book (signed by the thai)
-the data page of your passport
-the thai visa in your passport (if you have one)
-your most recent entry stamp
-your extension (if you have one)
-the TM.6 departure card
-your lease
 

* 800 baht tip

 

 

 

[arithai12]

On 5/26/2019 at 8:17 AM, homeseeker said:

But I read elsewhere on this forum that once registered with a TM 30 then at BKK(CW) there is no need to do any further TM 30 reports even with international trips unless there is an address change?

In principle, you need to update your TM30 (they give you a small paper slip) each time you return from an international trip.

 

[arithai12]

15 hours ago, wobalt said:

I personally got this visa because I am married to a THAI citizen. No need for TM 30. since more than 25 years I never have to file one.


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If you mean that you are getting an O-A visa abroad every year (or two, depending on the extension) since 25 years, it means that you have had to travel abroad at least a dozen times. I could argue that in all my years of retirement extensions, I never had to travel abroad, and the TM30 updates I do in a few minutes, and now hopefully online.

(as a joke I could add that I don't need to be married to a Thai citizen, but it's just a joke I hope you are super happy).

 

So as you see, depending how far you live from a border or from an immigration and to your personal situation, one or the other might be preferable.

[Tanoshi]

2 hours ago, mtls2005 said:

 

You have a Thai ID card? The Tabien Bann is in your name?

 

Most, not all, of the online systems' registration and data entry fields/pages are shown in both Thai and English.

 

I assume "foreigners" are allowed to register for the TM30 online system as they can own a condo? Some foreigners can operate hotels and guesthouses.

Yellow Tabien Baan and (pink) Thai ID card for foreigner.

I do not own a Condo or run a guesthouse/hotel.

I'm married and live in my wife's home, so not the owner, house master or tenant, but applied as an occupier of the residence.

 

As I understand the situation in CW, they never enforced the requirement for Private residences to report the presence of a foreigner and they are now playing catch up to register hundreds, if not thousands of foreigners who stay in private residential accommodation.

I fear they neither have the manpower or time to deal with postal or online registrations at this moment in time and appear to be advising most when they report in person for one reason or another.

I haven't read of anyone being fined, nor should they, when they previously advised filing a TM30 wasn't necessary at CW.

 

There was a massive TV ad campaign last month advising Thais they must report the presence of foreigners in private residential properties, which followed earlier announcements in the press of proposals to increase fines for non compliance. This all seems to coincide with CW recently now enforcing the requirement.

 

[wobalt]

If you mean that you are getting an O-A visa abroad every year (or two, depending on the extension) since 25 years, it means that you have had to travel abroad at least a dozen times. I could argue that in all my years of retirement extensions, I never had to travel abroad, and the TM30 updates I do in a few minutes, and now hopefully online.
(as a joke I could add that I don't need to be married to a Thai citizen, but it's just a joke I hope you are super happy).
 
So as you see, depending how far you live from a border or from an immigration and to your personal situation, one or the other might be preferable.

As I said I switched to non O for marriage. And yes, I have to travel abroad because of work and my wife has permanent residency in Germany. Getting a visa was easy like hell. No financial requirements.
I like traveling and use Thailand as a hub to travel to others countries in the Region. Boring to stay only in Thailand


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[Bill Miller]

I got bapped at Chonburi Immigration (Jom Tien) last year because my landlady had never filed. Cost me a fine, about 2,000, plus 500 baht to the lady at the condo who sort of phonied a lease up for me and hand carried it through as my landlady lives somewhere in Europe, and IF she agreed to deal with it, it would have been pretty cumbersome.
Having (sort of) learned my lesson I went to Jom Tien IO again a few months ago after exiting and re-entering the Kingdom. The young lady at the "check your papers" desk assisted in filling out the form, had required copies made, and hand carried it through for cane propped "papa".
I think it took less time than to write about it. I know I was done by the time my wife had parked the car.

Big thumbs up. Oh, and I only had to pay 20 baht for copying.
Fast forward, we had moved to Mai La Noi, staying with relatives pending our civil marriage. Nearest Immigration is Mae Sariang What a gem!
We arrived after normal closing in the afternoon, but the officer in charge waved us on in to the AC environs of his office.. A pleasant hour of back and forth,  enabled by my (now) niece in law, who is a lovely young woman as is her sis, who is also a nurse. They both take very good care of "loong Bil". ????
On the way to the province we had stopped for several days to visit relatives in Chiang Mai, and had goofed off for a couple of days during Songkran. From my understanding this might have earned me a fine in some jurisdictions, but not only did the IO get me properly TM 30ed with no fines, he also us gave some fairly lengthy advice on our (then) upcoming marriage.

[DrJack54]

23 minutes ago, Bill Miller said:

I got bapped at Chonburi Immigration (Jom Tien) last year because my landlady had never filed. Cost me a fine, about 2,000, plus 500 baht to the lady at the condo who sort of phonied a lease up for me and hand carried it through as my landlady lives somewhere in Europe, and IF she agreed to deal with it, it would have been pretty cumbersome.
Having (sort of) learned my lesson I went to Jom Tien IO again a few months ago after exiting and re-entering the Kingdom. The young lady at the "check your papers" desk assisted in filling out the form, had required copies made, and hand carried it through for cane propped "papa".
I think it took less time than to write about it. I know I was done by the time my wife had parked the car.

Big thumbs up. Oh, and I only had to pay 20 baht for copying.
Fast forward, we had moved to Mai La Noi, staying with relatives pending our civil marriage. Nearest Immigration is Mae Sariang What a gem!
We arrived after normal closing in the afternoon, but the officer in charge waved us on in to the AC environs of his office.. A pleasant hour of back and forth,  enabled by my (now) niece in law, who is a lovely young woman as is her sis, who is also a nurse. They both take very good care of "loong Bil". ????
On the way to the province we had stopped for several days to visit relatives in Chiang Mai, and had goofed off for a couple of days during Songkran. From my understanding this might have earned me a fine in some jurisdictions, but not only did the IO get me properly TM 30ed with no fines, he also us gave some fairly lengthy advice on our (then) upcoming marriage.

You bored? What's that got to do with thread. CURRENT TM30 AT CW based on retirement.

CW means bangkok

[brewsterbudgen]

In principle, you need to update your TM30 (they give you a small paper slip) each time you return from an international trip.

 

Every Immigration office seems to apply this principle differently. There isn't much evidence that it is being applied by Chaengwattana. In fact, admittedly a month ago, we were told that a TM30 receipt just needed to be on record, and didn't have to be done again unless you move to a new address.

 

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[mtls2005]

43 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

Every Immigration office seems to apply this principle differently. There isn't much evidence that it is being applied by Chaengwattana. In fact, admittedly a month ago, we were told that a TM30 receipt just needed to be on record, and didn't have to be done again unless you move to a new address.

 

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This both makes sense and is supported somewhat by posts but...

 

I would add that a hotel stay within Thailand, or even an overnight stay at a hospital may reset one's "TM30 address" in the Imm. DB, can/may lead to issues without re-filing a TM30 for the old, but current long-time address. I do know someone who ran into this when he was confined to Bumrungrad Hospital overnight, and they reported him via a TM30. When he tried to do a 90-day report in person (using his long-time address) it was rejected until he could file a TM30 establishing long-time address again (matching the TM47 he was submitting). As with all things, just one data point, but at Div. 1/CW.

 

The relevant "law", or Act, rule or whatever they call it here, is somewhat vague re: returning to an existing address? A strict interpretation could be used to warrant a new report no matter how long one has maintained the address?

 

 

Section 38 : The house – master , the owner or the possessor of the residence , or the hotel manager
where the alien , receiving permission to stay temporary in the Kingdom has stayed , must notify the
competent official of the Immigration Office located in the same area with that hours , dwelling place or
hotel, within 24 hours from the time of arrival of the alien concerned. If there is no Immigration Office
located in that area , the local police official for that area must be notified.
In case the house , dwelling place , or hotel where the alien has stayed under provision of Para.1
is located within the Bangkok area , such notification must be reported to the competent official at the
Immigration Division.
Making notification , in reference to the Para 1 and 2 of this Section , must comply with
regulations prescribed by the Director General.

 

“ House Master ” means any persons who is the chief possessor of a house , whether in the capacity of
owner , tenant , or in any other capacity whatsoever , in accordance with the law on people act.

 

 

Just to keep things confusing...(just covering Chonburi and/or Pattaya maybe?)

 

Completing the TM30 form once is enough for those on an extension of stay, Khun Pichai told Fabulous 103FM. Because foreigners on an extension of stay submit a 90 day report, they do not need to submit a TM30 form each time they return from a trip outside the province.

 

https://news.thaivisa.com/article/33580/explainer-heres-what-is-required-by-chonburi-immigration-for-tm30-and-retirement-extensions

 

Not sure if "province" can be extended to "country"?

 

Some sort of "Guidance" memo from Big Oud wouldn't hurt I guess?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 28, 2019 by mtls2005

[Bill Miller]

3 hours ago, brewsterbudgen said:

Every Immigration office seems to apply this principle differently. There isn't much evidence that it is being applied by Chaengwattana. In fact, admittedly a month ago, we were told that a TM30 receipt just needed to be on record, and didn't have to be done again unless you move to a new address.

 

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Most of my comment, for those who can read with comprehension, was about my experiences with the TM 30 at two other IOs.

Sorry I did not fit it into the narrow box that apparently comprises your universe.

Other people MIGHT appreciate knowing that it is not always a PITA.

[Tanoshi]

4 hours ago, brewsterbudgen said:

Every Immigration office seems to apply this principle differently. There isn't much evidence that it is being applied by Chaengwattana. In fact, admittedly a month ago, we were told that a TM30 receipt just needed to be on record, and didn't have to be done again unless you move to a new address.

 

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And a month before that they stated TM30 not required at CW.

[Bill Miller]

5 hours ago, Bill Miller said:

Most of my comment, for those who can read with comprehension, was about my experiences with the TM 30 at two other IOs.

Sorry I did not fit it into the narrow box that apparently comprises your universe.

Other people MIGHT appreciate knowing that it is not always a PITA.

Not intended to be in reply to the post by Brewster, but rather to a snarky remark that the OP was about TM 30 at CW, and I guess is supposed  to be about that only, and don't dare mention experiences at other immigration offices.
Not the first thee that the post I quoted has been changed after the fact. I rather carefully check after hitting the "submit reply" button.

[DrJack54]

6 hours ago, Bill Miller said:

Most of my comment, for those who can read with comprehension, was about my experiences with the TM 30 at two other IOs.

Sorry I did not fit it into the narrow box that apparently comprises your universe.

Other people MIGHT appreciate knowing that it is not always a PITA.

The main problem with TV threads is that they easily get sidetracked. The title of this thread (yes mine) was very specific. There are many threads about TM30 requirements. We all know many imm office have specific rules. What is of interest is sudden changes @ CW. That is whole point of the thread. 

No need for long winded attempt at comedy reply re another imm office. Irrelevant

[ThomasThBKK]

On 5/27/2019 at 12:47 AM, fusion58 said:

 

This is the advice I received from the Thailand Elite office:

 

Considering foreigners are already getting hit with fines, I suppose the foregoing piece of advice merely highlights the disparity between the "letter of the law" and the way(s) in which the law is enforced by the weasels at immigration.

 

 

 

I've asked a good internat. lawfirm about this last year and their response was exactly the same as Thai Elite's.

 

just for info. These <deleted> still try to fine us tho.

[cliveshep]

My wife filed a TM30 for our old address in 2015, then we bought this house, never filled in a new one, went to Singapore, came back - no TM30. That was early 2016 so we were a bit late.

 

Seeing all the kerfuffle on here about TM30 I persuaded that we really ought to go do one, my 90 day report hadn't come back and I was unsure if it was linked to a missing TM30 so we took the motorbike through rush-hour traffic (only ever once went by car - 2 1/2 hours - never again) to CW and parked up down the bottom in the shade. ! 1/2 hr queue and got seen by a lovely girl, fined my wife 800 baht - seems to be a standard charge - and gave a full explanation of the future requirements, in faultless English and in Thai.

 

1). If I go abroad - my wife MUST file a new TM30 when I return, even if to the same address.

2). If I spend a night away from home then on my return she should file a new TM30 (that assumes that wherever I stay fill in one for my for the stay). If I went camping for example, staying ad hoc in the mountains there wouldn't be anyone to fill in a TM30 as I pointed out. I was joking but a serious point because when I returned I would confuse everyone by my wife faithfully obeying the law and submitting another one, back-to-back as it were so it seems that in certain circumstances when one is pretty sure no other TM30 is going to be issued one might ask one's wife to be like dad and keep mum!

 

The even prettier girl who took our fine kindly looked up why my 90-day report receipt had not arrived, I posted it 15 days in advance, the letter was tracked and the received it the following day.

 

Nothing to do with lack of TM30, it had been issued so presumably either delayed or lost in post. She printed me out a copy there and then and carefully annotated it as a copy and told me I could use it until the correct one turned up or until the next one was due.

 

And yet another pretty girl did the receipts for the fine and the TM30 and we were on our way. All pretty girls in Section B and Fines, unlike the Extension department's somewhat forbidding ladies!