German Jews warned not to wear kippas after rise in anti-Semitism

[Scott]

Continued off-topic bickering will result in suspensions.   Re-read the OP and stick to the topic.

 

 

[simple1]

14 hours ago, dick dasterdly said:

 "She and she alone sped up the mass importation of the sworn enemies of the Jews, and then silenced the warnings and critics."

 

I agree.

Posted by a member who vehemently denies being right of centre, but claiming  all asylum seekers are "sworn enemies of the Jews". No doubt you can identify how many out of the 6 million plus Muslims in Germany are sufficiently motivated  to commit anti Semitic crimes. As I understand such massive generalisations against an entire religious group are contrary to forum rules. Moving along, the EU in general, plus other Western nations, are jointly responsible for the mass exodus of asylum seekers in 2015 due to under funding and resourcing in Turkey and the region in general  over a number of years led to the subsequent overwhelming of Greek resources for processing of claims and support services. Merkel made the decision to temporarily open the borders to assist a member EU State. However due to the huge inflow, also from Balkan countries economic refugees, plus some security lapses, a decision she later regretted and apologised for.

[bristolboy]

38 minutes ago, simple1 said:

Posted by a member who vehemently denies being right of centre, but claiming  all asylum seekers are "sworn enemies of the Jews". No doubt you can identify how many out of the 6 million plus Muslims in Germany are sufficiently motivated  to commit anti Semitic crimes. As I understand such massive generalisations against an entire religious group are contrary to forum rules. Moving along, the EU in general, plus other Western nations, are jointly responsible for the mass exodus of asylum seekers in 2015 due to under funding and resourcing in Turkey and the region in general  over a number of years led to the subsequent overwhelming of Greek resources for processing of claims and support services. Merkel made the decision to temporarily open the borders to assist a member EU State. However due to the huge inflow, also from Balkan countries economic refugees, plus some security lapses, a decision she later regretted and apologised for.

The thing is, it's pretty much undeniable that anti-semitism is pervasive in the Middle east Muslim community today. Documents such as the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, which are just about completely discredited in the developed nations of the world, have been widely propagated and accepted in the Muslim world. Particularly the Muslim Arab world where anti-semitism is at its most virulent. But not confined to Arabs. In that article in NY Times mentioned elsewhere, the author tells how his Jewish son was attacked by his fellow students who were Muslim Kurds. You know, the Middle Eastern people who are supposed to be the good guys.

[simple1]

1 hour ago, bristolboy said:

The thing is, it's pretty much undeniable that anti-semitism is pervasive in the Middle east Muslim community today. Documents such as the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, which are just about completely discredited in the developed nations of the world, have been widely propagated and accepted in the Muslim world. Particularly the Muslim Arab world where anti-semitism is at its most virulent. But not confined to Arabs. In that article in NY Times mentioned elsewhere, the author tells how his Jewish son was attacked by his fellow students who were Muslim Kurds. You know, the Middle Eastern people who are supposed to be the good guys.

Thanks, but I do understand anti Jewish sentiment is prevalent in some Muslim cultures, particularly M.E. culture. My point was given allegedly "all are sworn enemies" of the Jews" relatively few Muslims out of 6 million are engaged in anti Semitic behaviour in Germany which IMO belies the claim.

[bristolboy]

1 minute ago, simple1 said:

Thanks, but I do understand anti Jewish sentiment is prevalent in some Muslim cultures, particularly M.E. culture. My point was given allegedly "all are enemies" of the Jews" relatively few Muslims out of 6 million are engaged in anti Semitic behaviour in Germany which IMO belies the claim.

Well, most of the 6 million Muslims in Germany are Turkish who are well established there and haven't posed a serious problem.. It's the recent immigrants who are most of the perpetrators and those were the ones I was referring to. And I should have differentiated them from the Turks and other Muslims who had settled in Germany before the latest wave of immigrants. 

[dick dasterdly]

2 hours ago, simple1 said:

Posted by a member who vehemently denies being right of centre, but claiming  all asylum seekers are "sworn enemies of the Jews". No doubt you can identify how many out of the 6 million plus Muslims in Germany are sufficiently motivated  to commit anti Semitic crimes. As I understand such massive generalisations against an entire religious group are contrary to forum rules. Moving along, the EU in general, plus other Western nations, are jointly responsible for the mass exodus of asylum seekers in 2015 due to under funding and resourcing in Turkey and the region in general  over a number of years led to the subsequent overwhelming of Greek resources for processing of claims and support services. Merkel made the decision to temporarily open the borders to assist a member EU State. However due to the huge inflow, also from Balkan countries economic refugees, plus some security lapses, a decision she later regretted and apologised for.

Where did you get that either myself or the poster of the quote is claiming  "all asylum seekers are "sworn enemies of the Jews" - with emphasis on the word "all"???  You're deliberately misrepresenting the posts.....

 

"Merkel made the decision to temporarily open the borders to assist a member EU State. However due to the huge inflow, also from Balkan countries economic refugees, plus some security lapses, a decision she later regretted and apologised for."

 

I agree with this part of your post, and also agree that the vast majority of Muslims in Germany are not sufficiently motivated to commit anti Semitic crimes.

[Morch]

2 hours ago, simple1 said:

Thanks, but I do understand anti Jewish sentiment is prevalent in some Muslim cultures, particularly M.E. culture. My point was given allegedly "all are sworn enemies" of the Jews" relatively few Muslims out of 6 million are engaged in anti Semitic behaviour in Germany which IMO belies the claim.

 

I wouldn't know that outright antisemitism or actively engaging in such is pervasive in most societies. With latent antisemitism, maybe different. So "relatively few" would probably apply regardless of which general group is referenced. It would perhaps be more to the point analyzing engagement in such activities relative to community size. I think that from this angle, both new immigrants and third generation (or even second) immigrants will be over represented. Further, I think that it is relatively easy for these sort of views to take hold among long term immigrants.

 

 

[Thakkar]

3 hours ago, simple1 said:

Thanks, but I do understand anti Jewish sentiment is prevalent in some Muslim cultures, particularly M.E. culture. My point was given allegedly "all are sworn enemies" of the Jews" relatively few Muslims out of 6 million are engaged in anti Semitic behaviour in Germany which IMO belies the claim.

I don’t know this for a fact, but I suspect modern day anti-jewish sentiment (as opposed anti semitism) in the modern Arab world is rooted in anti Israel sentiment due to the Israeli occupation of Palestinian (and, as a result of wars, Arab) lands.

 

 

Without in any way condoning attacks against jews, regardless of the attackers, it’s helpful to consider that perhaps muslims attacking jews is more misguided response to illegal Israeli occupation of “muslim lands.” To the victims of the attacks, it matter naught. To the jews terrorized as a result of such attacks, it matters naught.

 

But zooming out, muslim attacks on jews is not necessarily to be equated with National Socialist (that is, Nazi) agenda of genocide against all jews, whose despicableness is on a different scale.

 

Yes, there are muslims who call for the complete irradiation of Israel. Again, this is in (disproportionate, no doubt) response  to an actual occupation, not some imagined nefarious jewish conspiracy to control the world and lord it over the “clearly superior” Aryans.

 

however, after years of state propaganda wherein despotic Arab leaders have tried to shift blames for their failure/corruption/power grab/illiberalism on Israel, a non-Aryan anti-semitism has taken hold in the M.E. And among muslims? I would be interested to learn more. 

[Morch]

19 minutes ago, Thakkar said:

I don’t know this for a fact, but I suspect modern day anti-jewish sentiment (as opposed anti semitism) in the modern Arab world is rooted in anti Israel sentiment due to the Israeli occupation of Palestinian (and, as a result of wars, Arab) lands.

 

 

Without in any way condoning attacks against jews, regardless of the attackers, it’s helpful to consider that perhaps muslims attacking jews is more misguided response to illegal Israeli occupation of “muslim lands.” To the victims of the attacks, it matter naught. To the jews terrorized as a result of such attacks, it matters naught.

 

But zooming out, muslim attacks on jews is not necessarily to be equated with National Socialist (that is, Nazi) agenda of genocide against all jews, whose despicableness is on a different scale.

 

Yes, there are muslims who call for the complete irradiation of Israel. Again, this is in (disproportionate, no doubt) response  to an actual occupation, not some imagined nefarious jewish conspiracy to control the world and lord it over the “clearly superior” Aryans.

 

however, after years of state propaganda wherein despotic Arab leaders have tried to shift blames for their failure/corruption/power grab/illiberalism on Israel, a non-Aryan anti-semitism has taken hold in the M.E. And among muslims? I would be interested to learn more. 

 

Zooming further out, the view above seems to equate antisemitism with Nazis. The former, in various forms and in different names, preceded the latter by hundreds of years. Anti Jewish sentiments is not quite a new feature in Islam or with Muslims - if not equivalent or as canonized as in Christianity. 

 

A whole lot of the modern instances do relate to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, or to Israel's existence itself. But I find that they often tend to rely on religious themes as well. The distinction is not as clear as some posters suggest.

[dick dasterdly]

3 hours ago, simple1 said:

Thanks, but I do understand anti Jewish sentiment is prevalent in some Muslim cultures, particularly M.E. culture. My point was given allegedly "all are sworn enemies" of the Jews" relatively few Muslims out of 6 million are engaged in anti Semitic behaviour in Germany which IMO belies the claim.

"My point was given allegedly "all are sworn enemies" of the Jews""

 

That comment was never made, other than by yourself......  It's just your fabrication.

 

YOU added "all",  to twist a comment into something that suited your agenda.

[Thakkar]

1 hour ago, Morch said:

 

Zooming further out, the view above seems to equate antisemitism with Nazis. The former, in various forms and in different names, preceded the latter by hundreds of years. Anti Jewish sentiments is not quite a new feature in Islam or with Muslims - if not equivalent or as canonized as in Christianity. 

 

A whole lot of the modern instances do relate to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, or to Israel's existence itself. But I find that they often tend to rely on religious themes as well. The distinction is not as clear as some posters suggest.

 

I didn’t mean to equate anti-semitism as a purely Nazi phenomenon, but mention it as the example to some to mind because of its highly organized and egregious nature and the immense scale of it.

 

Anti jewish sentiment in the muslim world is of course not monolithic. It no doubt varies in severity and conspiratorialness depending on country, which muslim sect, and geographical proximity to Israel, among other factors. What I’d like to know is: has any authority on the subject written clearly about the view of jews in the muslim or Arab world, because I’d very much like to read up on it.

 

[simple1]

6 hours ago, bristolboy said:

Well, most of the 6 million Muslims in Germany are Turkish who are well established there and haven't posed a serious problem.. It's the recent immigrants who are most of the perpetrators and those were the ones I was referring to. And I should have differentiated them from the Turks and other Muslims who had settled in Germany before the latest wave of immigrants. 

OK. So tell us what percentage, number of actual anti Semitic attacks have been carried out by the approx one million plus asylum seekers. As a heads up and a reminder...

 

Jewish groups have warned about the rise of far-right groups in fostering anti-Semitism and hatred of other minorities throughout Europe.

 

It also revealed a 60% rise in physical attacks - with 62 violent incidents recorded, up from 37 in 2017.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-47223692

 

Edited.

 

Even if all were carried out by asylum seekers in Germany still does not support the right of centre propaganda claim " mass importation of the sworn enemies of the Jews" which is at best a hyperbolic claim.

[simple1]

5 hours ago, dick dasterdly said:

Where did you get that either myself or the poster of the quote is claiming  "all asylum seekers are "sworn enemies of the Jews" - with emphasis on the word "all"???  You're deliberately misrepresenting the posts.....

 

"Merkel made the decision to temporarily open the borders to assist a member EU State. However due to the huge inflow, also from Balkan countries economic refugees, plus some security lapses, a decision she later regretted and apologised for."

 

I agree with this part of your post, and also agree that the vast majority of Muslims in Germany are not sufficiently motivated to commit anti Semitic crimes.

Your interpretation of TopdeadSenter comment "she alone sped up the mass importation of the sworn enemies of the Jews" differ. I take it as an all inclusive claim , you do not, so be it. We disagree. 

 

Yes I do have an 'agenda', my agenda is to counter the virulent right of centre commentary on this forum; do you have a problem?

[sanemax]

9 minutes ago, simple1 said:

OK. So tell us what percentage, number of actual anti Semitic attacks have been carried out by the approx one million plus asylum seekers. As a heads up and a reminder...

 

Jewish groups have warned about the rise of far-right groups in fostering anti-Semitism and hatred of other minorities throughout Europe.

 

It also revealed a 60% rise in physical attacks - with 62 violent incidents recorded, up from 37 in 2017.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-47223692

 

Even if all were carried out by asylum seekers in Germany still does not support the right of centre propaganda claim "all are sworn enemies of the Jews" which is at best a hyperbolic claim.

Pretty much all the Muslim World views Israel as the enemy .

Very few Muslim Countries even recognise Israels existence or its right to exist .

Every Jew has the right to become an Israeli citizen .

Muslims Countries are hostile towards Israel and many Muslims view Israel as the enemy and generally , Muslims are quite hostile to non Israeli Jews  

[roobaa01]

On 5/27/2019 at 7:42 AM, simple1 said:

Incorrect.

 

Jewish groups have warned that a rise in popularity of far-right groups is fostering anti-Semitism and hatred of other minorities throughout Europe.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-48411735

 

 

 

the rise of antisemitism in germany, france, sweden is clearly ascribed to be imported from the middle east, north africa etc... for example malmoe, goetenborg

 

a special phenomena in german  criminal statistics antisemite attacks will be automatically ascribed to right wing groups if the perpetrator cannot be traced, leading to distortion.

 

wbr

roobaa01

[simple1]

4 hours ago, Morch said:

 

I wouldn't know that outright antisemitism or actively engaging in such is pervasive in most societies. With latent antisemitism, maybe different. So "relatively few" would probably apply regardless of which general group is referenced. It would perhaps be more to the point analyzing engagement in such activities relative to community size. I think that from this angle, both new immigrants and third generation (or even second) immigrants will be over represented. Further, I think that it is relatively easy for these sort of views to take hold among long term immigrants.

 

 

I do remember my mother being very anti Semitic as were many of her generation, but strangely she paid for me to attend a private grammar school whose students were nearly all Jewish - LOL

 

According to a BBC (?) report in this topic Antisemitism is also embedded to a degree in the local 'white' population in Germany. Not surprising as traditionally a far right ideology which not until fairly recently has switched to another 'other'. As an example no doubt you will recall some leaders of AdF were removed to make the party more palatable to the general public in order to focus on Muslims, same with le Pen's political party, due to their anti Semitism.

[griffon2011]

14 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Maybe it shouldn't be a criminal offense, but it sure is despicable. 

Disappointing is a better word to use for the fact that you cannot discuss the H word in many countries.  Despicable is shooting unarmed protesters with no repercussions. 

[simple1]

19 minutes ago, roobaa01 said:

the rise of antisemitism in germany, france, sweden is clearly ascribed to be imported from the middle east, north africa etc... for example malmoe, goetenborg

 

a special phenomena in german  criminal statistics antisemite attacks will be automatically ascribed to right wing groups if the perpetrator cannot be traced, leading to distortion.

 

wbr

roobaa01

I don't like giving you air by replying due to your support for right wing extremist ideology. Again I ask you not to reply to my posts - respect my request

[sanemax]

4 minutes ago, griffon2011 said:

Disappointing is a better word to use for the fact that you cannot discuss the H word in many countries.  Despicable is shooting unarmed protesters with no repercussions. 

No, You can discuss the Holocaust in any Country , its just that Nazi apologists cannot deny the fact that it happened in the Countries where it happened , and you can also use the word "Holocaust" , there is no need to use the letter "H" .

  Now lets not go off topic and discuss Palestinian attacks on Israel and the response ,there are other , more apt threads where that can be discussed 

[metisdead]

An offensive post has been reported and removed. 

 

An off topic post and a reply has been removed. 

[Morch]

3 hours ago, Thakkar said:

 

I didn’t mean to equate anti-semitism as a purely Nazi phenomenon, but mention it as the example to some to mind because of its highly organized and egregious nature and the immense scale of it.

 

Anti jewish sentiment in the muslim world is of course not monolithic. It no doubt varies in severity and conspiratorialness depending on country, which muslim sect, and geographical proximity to Israel, among other factors. What I’d like to know is: has any authority on the subject written clearly about the view of jews in the muslim or Arab world, because I’d very much like to read up on it.

 

 

One of the problems posed by the Nazis, is that they set a rather high standard with regard to antisemitism. Many instances aren't deemed "serious" because they pale in comparison.

 

As per your question, there's plenty of writing on the subject - with the caveat that it's a loaded issue, so definitive views aren't exactly a hallmark. And "authority" is also somewhat subjective. There were some Wikipedia reviews linked on previous (deleted) posts with extensive source lists. Not too hard to find.

[metisdead]

A troll post has been removed. 

[brycspain]

On 5/27/2019 at 6:45 AM, TopDeadSenter said:

quote from the BBC article "Physical attacks against Jews in Germany also rose in the same period, with 62 violent incidents recorded, up from 37 in 2017."

 

 That is a 67% increase in physical attacks against Jews in just 1 year. Absolutely shocking. What on earth has been happening in Germany for this culture of violence and hatred to be flourishing like this??

Who are they arresting for these incidents?  If nobody, I would tell them to hide their identity too.  I suspect open border migration from Muslim countries is the issue.  It does correlate.  Blaming the far right who have been around for a long time and they are suddenly acting out on their anti-semitism is a stretch.  The left will stop at nothing to gain power and since they are masters of projection, they are projecting these incidents on far-right people.

[bristolboy]

1 hour ago, brycspain said:

Who are they arresting for these incidents?  If nobody, I would tell them to hide their identity too.  I suspect open border migration from Muslim countries is the issue.  It does correlate.  Blaming the far right who have been around for a long time and they are suddenly acting out on their anti-semitism is a stretch.  The left will stop at nothing to gain power and since they are masters of projection, they are projecting these incidents on far-right people.

Open border migration? Really?