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German Jews warned not to wear kippas after rise in anti-Semitism


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14 minutes ago, BangkokBaksida said:

No.  You and others are supposed to get to read it - and then decide for yourselves.  And even if you found it racist - to argue with my points.

We can find hateful racist antisemitic garbage millions of places online, and everywhere. I for one appreciate that such an infection is somewhat limited here. Emphasis on somewhat. Every time there is a post about Jews or about Israel (and often randomly out of the blue) the ancient sickness of Jew hatred always reveals itself here, as predictable as the sun coming up. There is an endless supply.

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2 hours ago, BangkokBaksida said:

You are of course correct.  But when I tried to answer your question, my comment was censored - as "racist".  Censorship does not solve the problem.  Only discussion can.

You are not allowed to challenge the official narrative thats why I generally find it a waste of time commenting on this subject.  For example If your opinion differs from or you question the recent historical narrative regarding Germany you will find yourself in jail.  You are not allowed to discuss certain subjects.  Is there really a need to make laws to protect the "truth"? 

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There a lot of nonsense going around to the effect that Jews have always been singularly hated wherever they've been. While true of the Catholic and Orthodox world, not at all true of the Islamic world.  For most of its history. Jews and Christians, being considered "People of the Book" were mostly not regarded as infidels but as subscribers to outdated revelations. As such they were both treated the same. In some places, like Persia, that could be very badly. In others, like what is Egypt, Turkey or now Iraq, they could be treated very well indeed. In some places, like Spain, treatment was mixed. And of course it could vary by time as well.

 

There was none of the demonization that figured in Catholic and Orthodox creeds which blamed the Jews for killing Jesus and sacrificing Christian Children. The bigotry ran so deep that both Chaucer and Shakespeare composed anti-Semitic works. As Protestantism evolved, its prejudices softened, though that happened too late for Shakespeare.

 

It was only in modern times, with the advent of European colonialism that the old prejudices gained currency in the Muslim world.  And whatever you may think of Zionism, it greatly exacerbated and deepened that prejudice in a part of the world where communities were still largely organized along religious lines. And of course, once Israel was created, Jews in middle eastern areas outside of Israel, were regarded as conspirators in its creation, even though it was largely a European Jewish endeavour. And mostly a secularized European Jewish project, at that. Orthodox Jews mostly considered the creation of Israel to be sacrilegious.

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1 hour ago, griffon2011 said:

You are not allowed to challenge the official narrative thats why I generally find it a waste of time commenting on this subject.  For example If your opinion differs from or you question the recent historical narrative regarding Germany you will find yourself in jail.  You are not allowed to discuss certain subjects.  Is there really a need to make laws to protect the "truth"? 

Are you asking whether Holocaust denial should be a criminal offence ?

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“There is to this day not a single synagogue, not a single daycare center for Jewish children, not a single school for Jewish children that does not need to be guarded by German policemen,” Merkel said.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/merkel-all-german-synagogues-jewish-schools-need-police-protection/

 

This woman, Merkel, is a flat out sociopath. She and she alone sped up the mass importation of the sworn enemies of the Jews, and then silenced the warnings and critics. Now she stands in the burning ruins of a great nation and bemoans the fact there is no security any more in Germany. It is insane.

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24 minutes ago, TopDeadSenter said:

“There is to this day not a single synagogue, not a single daycare center for Jewish children, not a single school for Jewish children that does not need to be guarded by German policemen,” Merkel said.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/merkel-all-german-synagogues-jewish-schools-need-police-protection/

 

This woman, Merkel, is a flat out sociopath. She and she alone sped up the mass importation of the sworn enemies of the Jews, and then silenced the warnings and critics. Now she stands in the burning ruins of a great nation and bemoans the fact there is no security any more in Germany. It is insane.

 "She and she alone sped up the mass importation of the sworn enemies of the Jews, and then silenced the warnings and critics."

 

I agree.

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27 minutes ago, TopDeadSenter said:

“There is to this day not a single synagogue, not a single daycare center for Jewish children, not a single school for Jewish children that does not need to be guarded by German policemen,” Merkel said.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/merkel-all-german-synagogues-jewish-schools-need-police-protection/

 

This woman, Merkel, is a flat out sociopath. She and she alone sped up the mass importation of the sworn enemies of the Jews, and then silenced the warnings and critics. Now she stands in the burning ruins of a great nation and bemoans the fact there is no security any more in Germany. It is insane.

Your whole argument is based on a sweeping generalisation.

 

As with all sweeping generalisations it's wrong and hence leaves your argument lacking a basis in fact.

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4 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Your whole argument is based on a sweeping generalisation.

 

As with all sweeping generalisations it's wrong and hence leaves your argument lacking a basis in fact.

Didnt you just make  a "sweeping generalization" , whilst not trying to disprove his point and just saying "its wrong" ?

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@bristolboy

 

"Nonsense". "Not at all true". "There was none". "It was only in modern times". Your words, appearing in your original post. The information in the links provided demonstrates these strong words do not fully conform to historical fact. 

 

And no, no cherry-picking on my part. I wasn't making a strong argument about Islam or Muslims being hyper-invested in antisemitism, or even more so than Christianity and Christians. Rather, the point made was that the version touted, complete with the wide-brush commentary, was not accurate.

 

There were several links provided, detailing many instances, and it was noted that this isn't a comprehensive list. You chose to address but a few of them, and quote a specific point of view from a review incorporating multiple takes and interpretations. But by all means, do go on waffling about cherry picking.

 

It doesn't take a whole lot of reading to understand that the issue (off topic as it is) doesn't really lend itself to decisive presentation offered. It's more complex than that, more nuanced, and can affords wide room for interpretation. Obviously, qualifying your post or toning it down would rob your final argument some of it's faux force, therefore....

 

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2 hours ago, Morch said:

 

@bristolboy

 

"Nonsense". "Not at all true". "There was none". "It was only in modern times". Your words, appearing in your original post. The information in the links provided demonstrates these strong words do not fully conform to historical fact. 

 

And no, no cherry-picking on my part. I wasn't making a strong argument about Islam or Muslims being hyper-invested in antisemitism, or even more so than Christianity and Christians. Rather, the point made was that the version touted, complete with the wide-brush commentary, was not accurate.

 

There were several links provided, detailing many instances, and it was noted that this isn't a comprehensive list. You chose to address but a few of them, and quote a specific point of view from a review incorporating multiple takes and interpretations. But by all means, do go on waffling about cherry picking.

 

It doesn't take a whole lot of reading to understand that the issue (off topic as it is) doesn't really lend itself to decisive presentation offered. It's more complex than that, more nuanced, and can affords wide room for interpretation. Obviously, qualifying your post or toning it down would rob your final argument some of it's faux force, therefore....

 

You're still spouting nonsense. The contention that I originally started out with was that Jews were not demonized the way that they were in Christian Europe. And why would they have been? Muslims wouldn't hold them accountable for killing the Son of God. They didn't subscribe to the blood libel. And they certainly would endorse the Jews rejection of Jesus as being the son of God, You won't find their great poets touting such anti-semitic nonsense. And you won't find anywhere in Catholic or Orthodox Europe the level of toleration that the Jews enjoyed for long stretches in the Middle East. In many locales right up until the middle of the 20th century. 

And I particularly chose Bernard Lewis to cite both because of the nearly (entirely?) universal respect his work commands and that fact the he was an ardent supporter of the state of Israel and a stern critic of the Palestinian leadership. So he wasn't grinding any political axes in his take on Islam's relation to the Jews.

According to Lewis, the outstanding characteristic of the classical Islamic view of Jews is their unimportance. The religious, philosophical, and literary Islamic writings tended to ignore Jews and focused more on Christianity. Although the Jews received little praise or even respect and were sometimes blamed for various misdeeds, there were no fears of Jewish conspiracy and domination, nor any charges of diabolic evil, nor accusations of poisoning the wells nor spreading the plague nor were they even accused of engaging in blood libels until Ottomans learned the concept from their Greek subjects in the 15th century.[88]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism_in_Islam#Literature

 

And by the way, how did you manage to construe that Muslims were to blame for the pogrom in Safed committed by the Druze?

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3 hours ago, Morch said:

 

@bristolboy

 

"Nonsense". "Not at all true". "There was none". "It was only in modern times". Your words, appearing in your original post. The information in the links provided demonstrates these strong words do not fully conform to historical fact. 

 

And no, no cherry-picking on my part. I wasn't making a strong argument about Islam or Muslims being hyper-invested in antisemitism, or even more so than Christianity and Christians. Rather, the point made was that the version touted, complete with the wide-brush commentary, was not accurate.

 

There were several links provided, detailing many instances, and it was noted that this isn't a comprehensive list. You chose to address but a few of them, and quote a specific point of view from a review incorporating multiple takes and interpretations. But by all means, do go on waffling about cherry picking.

 

It doesn't take a whole lot of reading to understand that the issue (off topic as it is) doesn't really lend itself to decisive presentation offered. It's more complex than that, more nuanced, and can affords wide room for interpretation. Obviously, qualifying your post or toning it down would rob your final argument some of it's faux force, therefore....

 

Instead of indulging in vague and therefore irrefutable persiflage like this:

"It doesn't take a whole lot of reading to understand that the issue (off topic as it is) doesn't really lend itself to decisive presentation offered. It's more complex than that, more nuanced, and can affords wide room for interpretation."

why not cite some eminent historian who fundamentially disagrees with my position. Good luck with that. And if you want a nice overview of how Jews fared in the Ottoman Empire, there's this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_the_Ottoman_Empire

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On 5/28/2019 at 3:52 PM, sanemax said:

Are you asking whether Holocaust denial should be a criminal offence ?

No, I am not asking that.  It should never be a criminal offense, however, in many countries it is a criminal offense.   

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45 minutes ago, griffon2011 said:

No, I am not asking that.  It should never be a criminal offense, however, in many countries it is a criminal offense.   

Maybe it shouldn't be a criminal offense, but it sure is despicable. 

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