Alzheimer's patient forced out of Thailand: Daughter tells Thaivisa they love Thailand but immigration rule changes mean mum must go

[Psimbo]

Something about this tale does not ring true despite all the wailing, rending of clothes and chest beatings above. She is not being FORCED to leave- they will be here until Feb- hardly being bundled into the back of a wagon and dumped at the airport. 

 

It pretty much supports the argument for having 800k and Health insurance (less OPD!!!) IMHO- I await the incoming. This is a hysterical story (no surprise it involves 'entitled' Merkins who think they have a right to things because of their birthright) and I would suggest there is far more to this than a very short report outlines.

 

 

[EricTh]

Seriously, somebody should be thinking of an alternative country in Asia for retirement with the current imm. problem of Thailand.

 

Are Thailand and Philippines the ONLY two countries that retirees will consider?

[simon43]

Don't they have have any family or family friends in America? Is gathering $25K really such an insurmountable challenge? 

 

Some of us don't like to 'leech' off friends and family, no matter what the circumstances.  I suppose it depends on your upbringing if you think it's OK to go crying to others when you have some problems.  Others deal with it themselves and accept hard choices, rather than being a leech.

[smedly]

4 hours ago, newnative said:

    The story doesn't make sense.  First they say they don't have 800,000 to put in the bank and they are forced to move their mother out of Thailand.  But, then later in the story they say they put 800,000 in the bank and the mother could stay until February of next year but they decide to move the mother anyway as her condition has deteriorated and it's 'now or never'.  So, in reality, the mother isn't being 'forced out' of Thailand.  It sounds like they found an alternative in the Philippines that's 1/3 cheaper and that's the real reason they are moving her.   Maybe they are hoping to get some sympathy donations with their pseudo sob story.  

The 12 month extension requires a lot of things the individual has to do in person under their own name, if someone is here on a care basis there a lot of the hoops to jump through that may not be possible, 85k a month for care is obviously being paid by the spouse and therefore does not count as income - 800k in the bank in the mothers name also needs some organising - immigration requires the individual to attend in person, so there a lot of stupid rules that make thing rather difficult for someone here on a legal care basis - I would feel rather aggrieved if the 85k care cost accounted for nothing and required another 800k deposit to comply

 

These new seasoning rules were introduced to wipe out the use of agents and bribes that bypassed the rules - people are still using agents and bribes and if anything it has increased - obviously they may be digging a hole for themselves come renewal in 12 months time when they are refused and possibly hit with other penalties like overstay and/or a ban - only time will tell

 

In Jomtien those with legit applications based on bank balance are being told to return in 3 months and shown their seasoned 5 month 800k balance,they will also have to maintain a minimum balance of 400k 12 months a year - not so for those using agents - they are under no such obligation...……...go figure

 

The rules were fine just as they were and I have no objection to maintaining a 400k minimum balance 12 months a year which I was doing anyway - the 5 month 800k makes no sense at all 

 

I personally would not like to be in a position of trying to manage someone else's IO compliance - it is difficult enough for my own 

 

It was suggested earlier in this thread that some sort of dependants arrangement could be made as a possible solution

[Travelerusa40]

Sounds like Elder Abuse to me???? on the kids part. Their mom could qualify for Medical care in the states, if she was indigent. If she is not indigent they would take any retirement, pension, or trust assets and deduct this from the cost of managing her care which would include giving her room and board. America does take care of the old. I know of the facility in CM where there mom was and non of the care givers speak English. If one does by chance, she is not the one taking care of there mom she would be the person you meet along with the doctor who speaks English and is in call for the whole facility. So, it looks like the nursing home business that are popping up in THAILAND is going to have a big problem. Especially all those Foreign Seniors in Nursing home that have been left there by there kids who only visit periodically. 

 

However, if the mom has assets in her trust and has not liquidate enough to qualify for Medicare or Medicaid she will have to use up all the trust money - which means the kids would get nothing. Very common in America that the parents must exhaust all finances to qualify for state assistance. If my mother was 77 I would not be dragging her around ASIA. I would ask a doctor in the US to help her get into a care facility and yes it would cause her to exhaust all her money but after that the state and Dede pick up the bill. Nothing would be left for the children and being in there 50’s they might have to go back to work. So, who is living off of there moms money? There mom or the kids? I think this is Elder Abuse in the kids part. Every parents wants to leave there child money, but every parent expects that the money they created in retirement would go to benefits them first b fore there children. ????. I hope the kids do the write thing with there mother. It sounds lik they are in charge and living off her Trust. The Trust are to benefit the Trustee not the beneficiaries. 

[smedly]

3 hours ago, Duck J Butters said:

So it's ok for Europe and America to be anti-immigrant and nationalistic but not okay for Thailand? The double standard is unreal.

are you seriously trying to compare Thailand with the UK, here's a clue - freeloading on benefits NHS and housing - and freely able to work pushing wages lower - Thailand offers none of this - retires here generally pay their way on retirement and claim for nothing

[EricTh]

8 hours ago, donnacha said:

I feel bad for the lady with Alzheimer's, but something is fishy about this story.

An American husband and wife team who ran a Web design business successful enough to be sold, and still relatively young, are unable to drum up one bank deposit of $25K which will allow their mother to stay in Thailand until she passes.

 

 

I find it quite fishy too. The rules haven't really changed much except for the duration of the months you must keep in the bank account.

 

How did she manage to get her retirement visa in the past? Was it mainly through declaring false affidavits?

 

Since she has 85,000 every month to pay for her monthly expenses, why not use that to transfer every month for 12 months from the USA? After all, immig. only need 65,000 per month.

 

[phetpeter]

Isn't there a visa option to be in Thailand for medical reasons and treatment?

[Isaanbiker]

The only positive aspect I can see here is that she will not fully realize what actually happened when she moves to the Philippines.

 

 I feel sorry for the older lady, but I somehow got the feeling that they just don't have enough money to live their lives abroad. 

 

   Why can't they just go back where they came from? Is it possible that a place for elders would be too expensive for them?

 

   Sorry, haven't read all the countless posts, just thinking. 

 

   

[ballpoint]

More proof, as if any were needed, that people will believe and rant about any old tosh on the internet if it supports their bigoted agenda.

[Jingthing]

 

 

5 minutes ago, Isaanbiker said:

The only positive aspect I can see here is that she will not fully realize what actually happened when she moves to the Philippines.

 

 I feel sorry for the older lady, but I somehow got the feeling that they just don't have enough money to live their lives abroad. 

 

   Why can't they just go back where they came from? Is it possible that a place for elders would be too expensive for them?

 

   Sorry, haven't read all the countless posts, just thinking. 

 

   

The cost for such care in the USA is indeed absurdly expensive. There is a trend in the USA that is growing -- medical care refugees. Sometimes for short term procedures and sometimes more permanently. 

[nabbie]

https://mymodernmet.com/alzheimer-village-dax-france/?fbclid=IwAR2acpwbxVwUYD60lBHGS2OFeUjQbpKI_TaOFmZ4_CV5lJlTIULX57EvmbI

[DrTuner]

Ain't this just lovely PR for the hapless usurpers that think Westies will come no matter what. Teflon Thailand is now starting to show aluminium through the scratches, soon the golden goose's egg will stick and burn. Chinese won't help as they are being squeezed back behind the wall. Somnamnaa.

[malibukid]

4 hours ago, SuwadeeS said:

Thai immigration missing humanity. Hopefully Thailand will soon get the bill for this "wrong doing".

People should spread the word. Post all over the spcial media the practice of the Thai culture. Including the dual pricing.

There are many advantages to move to the Philippines. The mentality is nice, its also cleaner, people get treated fairer than here and less double pricing. Specially for retirement people there is another advantage, Philipinne people have more experience and patience with care taking. Finally, the Philippine people are more deligent and have a higher level of cleaniness. (Remember the dirty toilet, yesterday in Thai Visa.) I have seen a lot of these.

the girls are fun and hip and speak good English

[Derek B]

5 hours ago, Thaidream said:

The issue could have been solved by Immigration using the clause in the Immigration Act which indicates a senior official can waive requirements  when necessary.  Certainly a medical issue like this should  qualify for such an exception.

This is normal in most legislation - the right to appeal a decision. 

Having said that the UK Foreign Office is not that much better if at all. You apply for a UK Visitor VISA as a Thai national and you are odds on to get rejected with no right of appeal.

 

[the guest]

9 hours ago, colinneil said:

You think something fishy about it.

You clearly have dont know much about immigration officers here.

Rules are rules they say, they have no compassion what so ever.

My own experience with them.... Being in a coma is no excuse for overstay.

Your husband will be deported, thats what my wife was told when she went to sort things out.

 

Not just immigration, but Thais in general are brainwashed (almost from birth) that foreigners are second (if not third) class, compared to their Thai counterparts. It is the way the country and the system is forged. 

 

Those which decide to come to Thailand must accept this mentality ,otherwise it is better to either leave or not come to the country at all.

 

You won't find any compassion in this country (especially if you're foreigner) it's money that counts (and not much else).

 

[elliss]

4 hours ago, CapraIbex said:

Immigration rules have nothing to do with religion, anywhere!

 

The capacity for "feeling for another" can be lessened over time due to repetitiveness of job duties and other factors; Compassion fatigue is real.

 

   Imagine theres  no Heaven no religion , and immi, too.

 

[zydeco]

1 hour ago, seancbk said:

In this woman's case the 85,000 a month they are spending should be considered as income, although I also don't see why they don't use an interim step and put that money in an account as income then pay for her care from that account.  

Because, according to the person involved, they are paying the 86,000 out of their own pocket, here in Thailand. The money, therefore, does not appear in an account as coming from abroad. This was one of the changes that came about because of the cessation of the letter of income affidavit. You can see his comment here, in the visa section. 

 

[NoComment]

I don't understand this story one little iota.

Surely the money could be transferred back to the mother's account in the US then back again to her Thai bank account. This would simplify one dilemma. The couple say they are paying regardless.

If they haven't got the 800k for their own mother then they could borrow off family and friends returning it at s later date when the mother leaves this mortal coil.

The couple can afford to pack their bags, move their mother and set up again in a new country. They can afford those expenses which are not inexpensive. 

They have had a long long time to figure this out and have known about the changes so why now is this story being reported?

I have every sympathy for the mother and I wish her well in the future but the couple!??

[zydeco]

1 minute ago, NoComment said:

I don't understand this story one little iota.

Surely the money could be transferred back to the mother's account in the US then back again to her Thai bank account. This would simplify one dilemma. The couple say they are paying regardless.

A US bank will not open an account for you if you live abroad. They will not mail you statements, ATM cards, or other information to a non-American address. The people involved seem to be following the law. By fearing complications, they are making the move now, while they can. Seem quite ethical people to me.

[DefaultName]

What I don't understand is the 85,000 a month.  My mother is in a dementia care home with 24/7 nursing care in the UK, and it costs half that.  Surely Thailand would be cheaper?

[geronimo]

11 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Half baked policy changes mean many good people are getting burned and many others are left feeling raw.

you must be well overdue for your ninth dot Sir!!!

[Sheryl]

19 minutes ago, zydeco said:

Because, according to the person involved, they are paying the 86,000 out of their own pocket, here in Thailand. The money, therefore, does not appear in an account as coming from abroad. This was one of the changes that came about because of the cessation of the letter of income affidavit. You can see his comment here, in the visa section. 

 

But where are they getting it from? they themselves are retired so presumably bringing money in.

 

If for some reason they have 100% of their accumulated wealth and all retirement incomes sources here inside Thailand (which would seem odd) they could transfer it out and then bring it back in monthly. Would cost something in transfer and exchange fees but less than 800K.

 

Given the woman's age it seems impossible she has 0 income, she must be getting something from social security (though no doubt less than 65K). In which case just transfer her SS in each month plus whatever additional needed to equal 65K. Or use the combo method.

[lamyai3]

6 hours ago, TonyR101 said:

I've had a retirement visa for the past 15 years and seen many changes to the immigration requirements

Other than the past few months, what changes are you talking about? Retirement visas and extensions have been a smooth ride for pretty much everyone for 14½ of the past 15 years. 

[geronimo]

4 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

But where are they getting it from? they themselves are retired so presumably bringing money in.

 

If for some reason they have 100% of their accumulated wealth and all retirement incomes sources here inside Thailand (which would seem odd) they could transfer it out and then bring it back in monthly. Would cost something in transfer and exchange fees but less than 800K.

 

Given the woman's age it seems impossible she has 0 income, she must be getting something from social security (though no doubt less than 65K). In which case just transfer her SS in each month plus whatever additional needed to equal 65K. Or use the combo method.

Immigration asked her and she couldn't remember .....

[Sheryl]

9 minutes ago, DefaultName said:

What I don't understand is the 85,000 a month.  My mother is in a dementia care home with 24/7 nursing care in the UK, and it costs half that.  Surely Thailand would be cheaper?

 

If your mother's care is really only costing 1,000 GBP a month or so it is being very heavily subsidized.

 

 

[jkcjag]

12 hours ago, Chazar said:

Love the mentality, questioning isn't allowed,  follow  the  rule, obey, conform.

It would be nice to see this "Thai  Visa/Nation contacted immigration to hear their comment on this  case"

...and how would this compare to one's own country of origin if Thais wanted to live or retire there?

[webfact]

UPDATE:

 

US Alzheimer's patient: Goodbye Thailand - it was nice knowing you

  

The daughter of the Alzheimer's patient who claimed that her 77 year old mother had been forced out of Thailand by new immigration rules has sent Thaivisa pictures of their impending departure. 

 

Full story: https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1103288-us-alzheimers-patient-goodbye-thailand-it-was-nice-knowing-you/

 

[natway09]

Can't afford to live back home but expect Thailand to do so ?????

I smell a rat 

[GAZZPA]

4 hours ago, donnacha said:

I feel bad for the lady with Alzheimer's, but something is fishy about this story.

An American husband and wife team who ran a Web design business successful enough to be sold, and still relatively young, are unable to drum up one bank deposit of $25K which will allow their mother to stay in Thailand until she passes.

During the course of their business careers, did they not forge strong enough relationships with clients or collaborators to be able to ask around for help now that they have a real problem?

Don't they have have any family or family friends in America? Is gathering $25K really such an insurmountable challenge? 

Do they really think that living in Manila is going to be that much cheaper than Chiang Mai?

Do they understand how much harder it is to find a place to live there, and how much more expensive rent and utilities are?

Have they ever experienced the existential struggle of trying to find edible food in the Philippines?

Surely, if they had made any friends at all in during their 4 years in Thailand, someone would have pointed out that they can simply pay $600 per year for an agent to grease the wheels for them and stay right here in Chiang Mai. I mean, seriously, that is less that what their flights to Manila will cost them.

 

My guess is that their back story is bullshit and this is an attempt to salt gullible people, farang and Thai, into donating money to them. They have no intention of folding up their tents and moving their circus to Manila.

 

What! they are not asking for any donations. why can their story not be true? Why would they go through all the inconvenience if they could easily stump up the cash? Your point makes zero sense. The Thais dont want foreigners, simple as that, time to leave and I already have. What is so good about Thailand that makes it worth living in an unfriendly, xenophobic country? Absolutely nothing, leave them to it. The Philippines is certainly not an expensive ( its cheaper then Thailand), I have a Filipino wife and been there many times. Also the beaches and natural beauty are far better then Thailand. All contrary to the picture you are trying to paint. I wish the family well, they should leave with a smile on their faces.