Laos or Cambodia - where would you relocate to?

[simon43]

I know that in September 2020, (when my 5-year Elite visa expires), I will not have the savings to purchase another Elite visa, and nor will I have savings of 800,000 baht for a 'retirement' visa (I'm hitting 60 years old). I do have a regular monthly income of about 100,000 baht, but I'm tired of the 'games' that the Thai authorities are playing with visas and I'm sure that new restrictions will be imposed in the future.  They are perfectly entitled to impose whatever visa rules they want, and I'm perfectly entitled to politely decline and remove myself to another country.

 

My choices are Laos and Cambodia...  (I omit Myanmar because although I have lived and worked there for many years, the country is still too under-developed IMHO).

 

I previously worked in Luang Prabang and love the town.  I have visited Cambodia over the past few years, but have not lived there.

 

What are/are not my priorities for a new location?

 

Easy one-year, renewable visa:  Laos doesn't have a retirement visa, but a business visa is easily obtained for about $500, even if one isn't working).  I think Cambodia does offer a low-cost retirement visa.

 

Women:  My 'tackle' has rusted up and I'm very happy with my own company.  If I want to 'play', then I'm sure it's easy in Cambodia.  BTW, although it's illegal in Laos to engage in such activities with the local women, in practice when I lived in Luang Prabang, I never had a problem!

 

Good local food:  I like Lao food, no idea about Cambodian food.

 

Internet: I need fast internet service, don't know if this is possible in either country.

 

Cheap lodgings:  My needs are relatively simple and I'm sure both countries have suitable accommodation to fit my budget.

 

Hospitals:  I assume both countries have atrocious hospital services (it certainly was when I lived in Laos...).  My medical insurance includes emergency evacuation to Bangkok for treatment, (if I am still alive...).

 

But what do other forum members suggest?

 

I do have one consideration, in that I will need to bring in my boxes of personal items, mainly teaching materials, clothes etc.  I'll need to use a company and truck to send perhaps 20 boxes of personal things into the country.  does anyone know how Laos and Cambodia Customs officers deal with such imports?  (Import taxes???)

 

Let's hear your comments - Laos or Cambodia?

[KC 71]

Laos,but not sure about internet though


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[Blue Muton]

Neither - I'm quite happy here, thanks, the grass looks quite green enough from where I sit. Good luck to you though, wherever you decide to lay your hat.

[BritManToo]

Laos, most boring place I've ever been.

Love Cambodia, decent condos/rooms available in Siem Reap and Phnom Penh for $150 and up.

Have no idea about internet, I just used a SIM with data, I was far too busy to watch movies.

Some great cycling, hiking and ruins all around SR.

Food ranged from good to great, an amazing selection of Indian restaurants in both places.

Same Asian dishes as Thailand but they use less chilli and more coconut/peanut that Thailand.

 

If you want expat company,

SR was mainly young foreigners with a large cannabis smoking community.

PP was mostly guys over 50 and 60, I met up with a decent enough bunch in both places.

[baansgr]

Philippines SRRV, cheaper than Elite. No language problems. Great dental care and there are reasonable private hospitals and clinics unlike many say there isn't. 

[Odysseus123]

Neither,If you are over 60-65.

 

Unless you have a very decent health insurance policy and you don't collapse in the middle of a paddy field somewhere east of the moon and west of the sun.

 

 

[thaiguzzi]

Laos every time.

Fantastic landscapes and scenery.

Low population count.

Wonderful people, similar/same as their NE Thai brethren bordering the Mekong.

You've been to LP - nothing like it in SE Asia. Wonderful town in a magnificent area.

 

5 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

I hate Laos, most boring place I've ever been.

Love Cambodia, decent condos/rooms available in Siem Reap and Phnom Penh for $150 and up.

Have no idea about internet, I just used a SIM with data, I was far too busy to watch movies.

Some great cycling, hiking and ruins all around SR.

Food ranged for good to great, an amazing selection of Indian restaurants in both places.

Same Asian dishes as Thailand but they use less chilli and more coconut/peanut that Thailand.

Everyone is different. Each to their own.

Complete opposite for me.

Happily live in the middle of nowhere in some breathtaking mountains, down by a river, in the Lao countryside.

I find Khmer cuisine very poor and uninspiring, and i don't like large cities. Nor traffic.

Nice people though.

My favourite large city in SE Asia (not been to Vietnam yet tho) is Vientienne, unfortunately rush hour traffic has been becoming a problem for a few years now.

[BritManToo]

13 minutes ago, baansgr said:

Philippines SRRV, cheaper than Elite. 

SRRV nearly $2,000, you'd have to be mad.

[watcharacters]

32 minutes ago, simon43 said:

I will not have the savings to purchase another Elite visa, and nor will I have savings of 800,000 baht for a 'retirement' visa (I'm hitting 60 years old). I do have a regular monthly income of about 100,000 baht, but I'm tired of the 'games' that the Thai authorities are playing with visas

 

I haven't spent enough time to judge either country as a living in  destination.     I did enjoy each however.

 

While not meaning to go OT I'm surprised anyone would buy an Elite  Visa unless having buckets of discretionary income/money.     As an alternative, just by using an agent during the past 5 years I think you would have come out ahead of the game.

 

Good luck.

 

 

 

 

[KC 71]

Laos every time.
Fantastic landscapes and scenery.
Low population count.
Wonderful people, similar/same as their NE Thai brethren bordering the Mekong.
You've been to LP - nothing like it in SE Asia. Wonderful town in a magnificent area.
 
Everyone is different. Each to their own.
Complete opposite for me.
Happily live in the middle of nowhere in some breathtaking mountains, down by a river, in the Lao countryside.
I find Khmer cuisine very poor and uninspiring, and i don't like large cities. Nor traffic.
Nice people though.
My favourite large city in SE Asia (not been to Vietnam yet tho) is Vientienne, unfortunately rush hour traffic has been becoming a problem for a few years now.

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[KC 71]

I agree [emoji106]


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[seasia]

Of the 2 I prefer Cambodia, PP specifically.

 

Plenty of food choices,lively city ( well District 1 is ) Not everyone looking for that though.

People I found to be friendly.

 

I did actually also like Vientiane, just for me personally  PP has the edge.

[thecyclist]

Laos, 20 years ago the cheapest in the region, is now, especially food, by far the most expensive. If you have lived in Thailand for years and speak some Thai, Laos would be preferable, as everyone understands Thai in Laos. 

PP has turned into a traffic nightmare over the last decade, SR into a tourist circus, Sihanoukville into a Chinese enclave, but towns like Battambang, Pursat and Kampot are still livable. 

Have you considered Vietnam :The cheapest in the region with very welcoming people, especially away from tourist destinations. 

[4737 Carlin]

I'm living in Chiangmai now but previously lived in Phnom Penh for 6 years. In a nutshell, I grew to despise the place. Its expensive - property rentals are a rip-off and poor quality. Supermarkets are at least a third or more the prices of Thailand. The only thing cheaper is the grog.  Khmer street food costs more than it does here and is very low quality and mostly tastes bad. Fortunately the portions are smaller - Khmer's are incredibly stingy with ingredients. Not to mention there is nowhere to exercise or even walk in the city. No doubt the usual barang PP business owners will be along to defend the place but that's my two cents. I'd much rather move back to the West than live there again.

[MsBom]

Dear Simon43,

Maybe you should wait a bit. As an Elite member, you are entitled to 1 extra year if you leave and come back to Thailand before your visa expires.

Maybe this extra year would allow you for more options, just a thought.

My boyfriend elite visa expired on May 30th. We already applied for a new elite visa, which will take up to 2 months so he left on a day trip to Hong Kong last Sunday and when he got back the officer gave him a full year and told him it was his right as his elite visa was still valid.

Hope it helps you somehow


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[SiSePuede419]

Neither.

 

I lived on $1 a day in Guatemala 35 years ago, battling parasites and boredom.  You can't drink or buy anything or go anywhere on that budget.  But way cheaper than either Laos or Cambodia.  You could rent a small plot of land outside a tourist area, build a little shack for a few hundred dollars.  Grow a little weed in your backyard and sell it to the tourists. ????

 

[ThomasThBKK]

I don't get your problem?

 

As MsBom said already, you can just stay another year on your visa if you do a border run.

And also you can just get a retirement visa with your income easily? You only need 65k/month, you have 100k?!

 

 

[Tajasia]

Laos

[seasia]

19 hours ago, seasia said:

Of the 2 I prefer Cambodia, PP specifically.

 

Plenty of food choices,lively city ( well District 1 is ) Not everyone looking for that though.

People I found to be friendly.

 

I did actually also like Vientiane, just for me personally  PP has the edge.

Apologies, my reference to District 1 was incorrect, that is Saigon which I slightly prefer to PP.

 

Sorry

[Brunolem]

33 minutes ago, ThomasThBKK said:

I don't get your problem?

 

As MsBom said already, you can just stay another year on your visa if you do a border run.

And also you can just get a retirement visa with your income easily? You only need 65k/month, you have 100k?!

 

 

I fully agree... you have more than enough to stay comfortably in Thailand, first one extra year on your Elite visa, then with your monthly pension. 

 

Both Laos and Cambodia would be a severe downgrading compared with Thailand. 

 

If you are ready to live in Laos, then by all means go live in Isaan. 

 

These are basically the same people and customs, yet on this side of the border they enjoy all the perks of a more advanced and wealthier country. 

 

Laotians and expats over there use every occasion to cross the border and come shopping in Thailand, because Laos has nothing, not even shops worth to talk about. 

 

As for Cambodia, the country attracts all kinds of dubious characters in search of a safe haven to escape... whatever they need to escape. 

 

The country is among the poorest in the world, with beggars galore, something unknown in Thailand. 

 

Anyway, if you really wish to leave Thailand, and considering your income, you would probably better off in the Philippines or Vietnam, as suggested by other posters, or even in Malaysia... 

[bkk6060]

How very very sad that a 60 year old cannot meet the Thailand long stay requirements and needs to relegate their lifestyle to a third world country.

It all seems like such a down grade from Thailand and most of your "I wants" won't happen, but if you must do it Cambodia would probably be the better choice.

[simon43]

Maybe you should wait a bit. As an Elite member, you are entitled to 1 extra year if you leave and come back to Thailand before your visa expires.

 

Yes, I'm fully aware of this and intend to get that extra year anyway.  I'm trying to plan well in advance of September 2020, because I'll need to make trips to check out 'on the ground' prior to my Elite visa expiry.

 

"And also you can just get a retirement visa with your income easily? You only need 65k/month, you have 100k?!"

 

True, but I have an immense distaste of IOs and value my privacy HUGELY.  My Elite visa generally ensured that I had little contact with IOs, and any contact at the airport was either accompanied by Elite program flunkies, or the local IOs were so much in awe at my gold visa sticker that they waied like crazy and couldn't do enough to be polite.

 

But the Elite visa seems to be losing its shine nowadays.

 

Years ago, I practiced the '5 flags' theory, being a British citizen, but living in Andorra, banking in France, earning income in other countries etc.  I still adhere to that concept when feasible and I just want to live my life quietly, away from nosy IOs, police etc etc.

 

My thoughts to move from Thailand are therefore not just about the money - it is the gradual tightening of the screws and paperwork/reporting requirements etc.  For me, it's time to look for another place to rest my head.

 

"If you are ready to live in Laos, then by all means go live in Isaan."

 

I already do.  I live about 300 metres from the once-mighty Mekong river....  

 

Laos is attractive for me because I previously lived and worked there, and I can speak/read/write passable Lao, as well as speak/read/write fluent Thai.  Luang Prabang is an ideal location because that's where I worked before and the UNESCO status means that it won't turn into a horror like Sihoukville.

 

"How very very sad that a 60 year old cannot meet the Thailand long stay requirements and needs to relegate their lifestyle to a third world country."

 

It's not sad at all - I have an extremely happy life!  I very much enjoy rural, developing (third world) countries. ( BTW, Thailand, away from the big cities is also third world).  I've lived and worked in Thailand, Laos and Myanmar, and would return to Myanmar in a flash if it weren't for the poor internet international connectivity, (local internet is very fast, international hits a bottleneck...)

[myjawe]

The most important for you is to focus about where you can find a very smart and educated wife as the previous ones ❤️

 

 

[Brunolem]

21 minutes ago, simon43 said:

 

Laos is attractive for me because I previously lived and worked there, and I can speak/read/write passable Lao, as well as speak/read/write fluent Thai.  Luang Prabang is an ideal location because that's where I worked before and the UNESCO status means that it won't turn into a horror like Sihoukville.

 

 

I found Luang Prabang to be very expensive. 

 

Laos in general is more expensive than Thailand since the little there is over there is imported from... Thailand... yet Luang Prabang takes the cake, probably because it is the only city in Laos that receives a significant number of tourists. 

 

Another inconvenient with Luang Prabang is that it is quite isolated, unless you are ready to jump in a plane anytime. 

 

Around Vientiane or Savannakhet, or even Pakse, you just have to make a short trip by bus if you need to go to Thailand (medical issue, shopping...). 

 

 

[arithai12]

Whatever people say and recommend here, you have to go and experience yourself. You have enough time ahead.

[Pravda]

If I was to move out of Thailand I would probably choose infrastructure, so it would have to be Phils.

 

Makati or BGC. Bigger places also means better chances of making connections. 

[Tajasia]

Laos foods amazing people friendly..Dirty Cambodia ruined by Chinese and exspensive

[BritManToo]

2 minutes ago, Tajasia said:

Laos foods amazing people friendly..Dirty Cambodia ruined by Chinese and exspensive

Didn't see any Chinese in PP in April or Siem Reap in January.
We must be visiting different Cambodias.

[simon43]

Quote

 

I found Luang Prabang to be very expensive. 
 

 

 

I lived in LP for about 1 year.  I rented a beautiful teak house for $300 a month.  Food was no more expensive than Thailand (because I eat fresh fruit and vegetables etc).  I had an off-road motorbike and spent my weekends riding through the hilltop Hmong villages - stunning views.

 

'Company' for the night was readily available from the club just located outside the town.  cheap and very friendly.

 

Now if you're into western food, golf etc, I'm sure it can be expensive.  It certainly wasn't for me.

 

Update:

 

The most important for you is to focus about where you can find a very smart and educated wife as the previous ones

 

Only one of my Thai ex-wives had minimal education. The other one has a degree and speaks fluent English and Japanese (and Thai and Issan).  She remains a good and loyal friend to this day.

[Mel52]

If you have a monthly income of 100,000 baht you’re more than qualified for a retirement visa. I bring in approximately 102,000 baht a month worth of my income into my Thai bank account every month the rest we leave in the states. I’m on a marriage visa but I am retired. I have my va pension sent direct deposit to my Thai bank account every month. I was doing the wire transfers every month but I just recently set up the international direct deposit to my Thai bank account just for my va pension only which is about $3,200 USD a month. I received my first va direct deposit to my Thai bank account this morning and I love that new treasury department international direct deposit system it’s awesome. We leave the rest of our income going to our bank in the states such as my military retirement pay and my wife’s Social Security, I only bring my va pension into my Thai bank account every month. I’m considering maybe one day changing to a retirement visa because it’s really not that hard to stay here with that much income every month and the immigration rules here really aren’t that bad especially if you have that much monthly income. I think you’d be making a mistake trading Thailand for Laos or Cambodia when you have plenty of income to qualify for a retirement visa but it depends on where you want to be. I might switch from a marriage visa to a retirement visa one day just because the extension process for the retirement is a lot faster but either one is basically the same thing just slightly different rules.