Retiring to Europe (Portugal)

[wisperone]

I am heading to Italy in September to check it out...haven't been there in over 20 years.

Not looking for full time at this point, depending on the pros and cons, could be in the future.  As of now, I would never cut complete ties with the US, and don't think I ever would. Costs may be a issue, but food, healthcare, people, culture, architecture, history, natural beauty, activities, safety, are all pluses for me. May cost more, but you get what you pay for.

 

[KittenKong]

6 hours ago, 7by7 said:

Let me explain the situation, it's complicated, so bear with me, please.

I know how it works.

 

6 hours ago, 7by7 said:

This is certainly true of EU nationals coming to the UK; most of whom are working and paying tax. But most Brits moving to the EU are pensioners.

 

I would be very interested to see the data upon which you have based your claim; as most figures show that ex pat pensioners living in the EU, where they can receive state benefits, tend to take out more than they put in.

Where do you think the benefits and pensions come from? The host country? The pensions (state or otherwise) come from Britain and are spent in the host country. This is the very best sort of money any country can get: money coming from outside its borders that is being spent directly into the local economy. And I wont even start to talk about the billions spent by British expats on property.

 

The countries that have significant numbers of British residents will be very keen to keep them if only for this reason, though there are other economic reasons also.

[KittenKong]

12 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Give me an axe, a chainsaw and a wood burning stove and most of my heating is free in the EU.

I've had a wood burner since I was 30 at all my houses in the UK.

I really don't fancy having to chop wood to keep warm at the age of 80.

 

I would much rather just live somewhere where the average outdoor temperature is closer to the temperature that I want indoors, and then pay for the little bit of extra heating or cooling I may need in the peak of summer or the depths of winter.

[KittenKong]

6 hours ago, Destiny1990 said:

Weird your simple economics don’t seem to working here as many foreigner retirees are having problems to continue their stay.

Only the ones with little money.

[JimmyTheMook]

1 minute ago, KittenKong said:

Only the ones with little money.

 

Looking forward to the riddance of the low ends.

[MJCM]

Guys,

 

very interesting thread, also thinking (in the back of my mind) about moving. But one question if I may.

 

Do any of you guys who think of moving to one of these countries have a Thai Partner / Wife ?

 

I have and that makes it very difficult to move to one of these countries. I could make the move and then get my wife to come and visit me in another European Country that I am a Citizen off, but that is only 6 months (I believe) in 1 year she could come and live with me ! Or do you know of any other solutions ?? (6 months here and 6 months there ???? )

 

Portugal / Spain would also be my Favorite, or what about Greece ???

[Destiny1990]

18 minutes ago, KittenKong said:

Only the ones with little money.

The UK Spain retirees or the UK Thai retirees are on a similar budget they just are not similar welcome.

[stevenl]

24 minutes ago, MJCM said:

Guys,

 

very interesting thread, also thinking (in the back of my mind) about moving. But one question if I may.

 

Do any of you guys who think of moving to one of these countries have a Thai Partner / Wife ?

 

I have and that makes it very difficult to move to one of these countries. I could make the move and then get my wife to come and visit me in another European Country that I am a Citizen off, but that is only 6 months (I believe) in 1 year she could come and live with me ! Or do you know of any other solutions ?? (6 months here and 6 months there ???? )

 

Portugal / Spain would also be my Favorite, or what about Greece ???

It is easier to move to another country than your citizen one.

[Destiny1990]

28 minutes ago, KittenKong said:

I know how it works.

 

Where do you think the benefits and pensions come from? The host country? The pensions (state or otherwise) come from Britain and are spent in the host country. This is the very best sort of money any country can get: money coming from outside its borders that is being spent directly into the local economy. And I wont even start to talk about the billions spent by British expats on property.

 

The countries that have significant numbers of British residents will be very keen to keep them if only for this reason, though there are other economic reasons also.

Meanwhile here the  focus is on holidaymakers.

[JimmyJ]

30 minutes ago, JimmyTheMook said:

 

Looking forward to the riddance of the low ends.

In what way will this affect your life, whether they stay or leave?

[KittenKong]

22 minutes ago, Destiny1990 said:

The UK Spain retirees or the UK Thai retirees are on a similar budget they just are not similar welcome.

That's Thailand's decision, right or wrong.

[KiChakayan]

Let me reiterate: watch the income tax regulations in Portugal, the 10 years exemption for retirees is bound to go.

[guzzi850m2]

2 hours ago, KiChakayan said:

Let me reiterate: watch the income tax regulations in Portugal, the 10 years exemption for retirees is bound to go.

Yes I read that too somewhere, pressure from EU canceling this exemption.

 

Solution: Stay less that 180days in Portugal and the rest of the time in Thailand, sorted.

 

When I retire I am also looking into doing this but are not yet sure about where; Portugal, Spain or Italy. I will check those places out more when I retire or semi retire, well I been in all 3 places but I need more time there before making up my mind. Okay if you rent, you don't have to be fixed on one country but can stay in one country one year and then take the next country the next year. 

 

Since I am currently only 6 month per year in Thailand due to work commitments I am fine with staying here but not sure I want to stay here 12 month per year when retiring, so sharing your time between the places sounds very good to me. 

 

 

[seasia]

2 hours ago, wisperone said:

I am heading to Italy in September to check it out...haven't been there in over 20 years.

Not looking for full time at this point, depending on the pros and cons, could be in the future.  As of now, I would never cut complete ties with the US, and don't think I ever would. Costs may be a issue, but food, healthcare, people, culture, architecture, history, natural beauty, activities, safety, are all pluses for me. May cost more, but you get what you pay for.

 

Hi

 

I am off to there this Sunday, 4 month stay ( had originally planed 5.)

Similar to yourself, not looking for full time

I was last there about 18 months ago and prior to that had a visit every  year for about 5 years in a row.

Yes , agree 100 % on the plus points.

[guzzi850m2]

1 hour ago, seasia said:

Hi

 

I am off to there this Sunday, 4 month stay ( had originally planed 5.)

Similar to yourself, not looking for full time

I was last there about 18 months ago and prior to that had a visit every  year for about 5 years in a row.

Yes , agree 100 % on the plus points.

Sounds awesome, have a nice trip.

 

May I ask how are you staying, rented apartment, if yes how much?

 

I was 8 days in Rome last year, loved it but not a place I want to stay long time/term but I never been there before and it's was high on the bucket list, so glad I went. Rome is app. 30% cheaper than Copenhagen (my last place in DK before moving out here).

 

 

[theoldgit]

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[BritManToo]

6 hours ago, KittenKong said:

That's Thailand's decision, right or wrong.

I think it's more the Generals decision, but if you really think of him as Thailand ..........

[seasia]

Just now, guzzi850m2 said:

Sounds awesome, have a nice trip.

 

May I ask how are you staying, rented apartment, if yes how much?

 

I was 8 days in Rome last year, loved it but not a place I want to stay long time/term but I never been there before and it's was high on the bucket list, so glad I went. Rome is app. 30% cheaper than Copenhagen (my last place in DK before moving out here).

 

 

Hi guzzi

 

Thank You.

 

Some personal background. Although a British born national/passport holder, Dad was English, Mum was Italian.

They somehow managed to stay married together for 45 years.

Dad passed away aged 81 yrs. old, decent innings. About a year after that Mum decided to "emigrate " back to Italy, understandable.

Bought a new build house in the north but had little time there.

Big C diagnosis after just 4 months, Stage 4, died 3 months later.

Brother and myself decided not sell the house.

This about eleven years ago.

So no rent.

 

I still own a property in the UK, modest place, been let out for about 10 years, the time I have stayed in Thailand.

 

When I get settled back in the Italian house I will try to post about costs, rentals, purchases, everyday items etc.

 

I have been to Rome a few times, do not much like it myself.

 

Cheers

 

 

 

 

[dotpoom]

Spain for me, I will finish my last years there.....Love the weather, the smells, the women are beautiful to look at with an air of independence about them....and it's closer to home for me...even though nobody back home misses me (it's a phycological thing really I suppose).

  Am 70 now, still cannot believe I managed to live this long after a turbulent life...so I guess better start thinking about packing the bags soon, am in the "departure lounge" on life's journey.

PS. Thailand has given me a new lease of life for the past 19 years.....

  God Bless Thailand....and thank you Thailand..even including the few heartbreaks along the way.

[Sydebolle]

Portugal is an EXCELLENT choice, provided you're not in the centre of urban areas. Downtown Lisbon or the tourist traps of Albufeira etc. are costly; but once you're a little outside ......

The cost of living (as well as the initial installation costs of buying a car etc.) are considerably cheaper than Thailand.

Having said that, I am visiting Portugal in summer (as of May until, say, October) as the winter (and I spent Christmas once there) is unpleasant, as buildings and infrastructure is not fit for colder, more humid weather.

People are nice, humble and ..... don't speak English - but you get by and Portuguese is easier to learn than Thai. Foodwise it is a home run, good local beers (Imperial, Sagres etc.) and a choice of affordable and very quaffable wines away the migrant.

[GalaxyMan]

Funny, I moved to Thailand as my 'permanent' residence from Lagos, Portugal, after living there for 4 years. Superlatives about Portugal are numerous, but there are negatives. The biggest difference I've found between Portugal and Thailand is that the Portuguese wake up wondering how they can say NO to anything asked of them. They're actually more negative and pessimistic than the Dutch, if you can imagine that, and I say that having lived in Holland for 7 years before moving to Lagos. I also speak Dutch and Portuguese, so it wasn't language causing issues. The Thais, on the other hand, can't wait to say yes, or whatever else they think you want to hear, all the while beaming those incredible, sincere smiles. ???? The other big difference is that in Portugal there is actually a rule of law and a credible judicial system (wish I could say the same about Thailand), even though their governmental bureaucracy isn't much better than Thailand's. I've been waiting 4 years for my Portuguese driver's license which is automatically issued when you turn in a valid US driver's license. Here in Thailand, it took me about an hour, and that was because I had to take the driving test and there were people in front of me in line.

 

My reasons for moving to Thailand had nothing to do with either country's system, rather, I was living in Lagos, basically a young, fun, touristy place, where every Portuguese and half of Europe wants to vacation, with good reason, but it offers zero socially for a single male in his 60s, with rare exceptions (BIG SIGH). I was literally dying of loneliness in the winter when there was zero tourism and therefore zero chance of just meeting and interacting with people. Thailand is the polar opposite in that regard, no matter where you are. I have no regrets about moving to Thailand, despite the obvious nonsense here, as my quality of life is now exponentially better, the loneliness issue no longer being a factor, not the least of reasons. I also feel as though Thailand is less expensive than Lagos and I live in Koh Samui, the Lagos of Thailand, which I am going to visit for 2 weeks in September.

[snowballthecat]

21 hours ago, seasia said:

Hi guzzi

 

Thank You.

 

Some personal background. Although a British born national/passport holder, Dad was English, Mum was Italian.

They somehow managed to stay married together for 45 years.

Dad passed away aged 81 yrs. old, decent innings. About a year after that Mum decided to "emigrate " back to Italy, understandable.

Bought a new build house in the north but had little time there.

Big C diagnosis after just 4 months, Stage 4, died 3 months later.

Brother and myself decided not sell the house.

This about eleven years ago.

So no rent.

 

I still own a property in the UK, modest place, been let out for about 10 years, the time I have stayed in Thailand.

 

When I get settled back in the Italian house I will try to post about costs, rentals, purchases, everyday items etc.

 

I have been to Rome a few times, do not much like it myself.

 

Cheers

 

 

 

 

Hi Seasia!

I wish you a good return to Italy, wherever you are heading in the north. 

I am also half Italian, from Piemonte, have lived 8 years plus in Rome and own land in Sardegna.  Please travel extensively before committing yourself to any region. Italy varies a lot from place to place, in weather, pricing, regulations, etc. 

As an starting point go to Numbeo and compare cost of living, crime index, quality of air in different cities. 

After all, you may rent your house and decide to settle somewhere else.

First thing to do is to talk to a Commercialista about your tax, in case you want to settle. 

If you need help with the language/burocracy, just PM me, will try to help you.

And good choice to go back to il Bel Paese!

Cheers!

 

[Mavideol]

On 6/9/2019 at 9:46 PM, 7by7 said:

Why would they go out of their way to make it easy for British pensioners post Brexit over other non EU nationalities?

why?? simple answer, contrary to Thailand the majority of countries in Europe welcome retirees

[Mavideol]

On 6/10/2019 at 1:43 AM, Destiny1990 said:

Many Europeans retirees relocate to Spain for the climate.

What financial benefits would they get from Spain? I can’t think of even one.

These retirees get money pension from their home country.

They don’t take out from Spain only they put money in just like farang retirees do here.

 

but contrary to here, Spain welcomes them and don't give them hard time or ask for 800k deposit

[guzzi850m2]

2 hours ago, GalaxyMan said:

Funny, I moved to Thailand as my 'permanent' residence from Lagos, Portugal, after living there for 4 years. Superlatives about Portugal are numerous, but there are negatives. The biggest difference I've found between Portugal and Thailand is that the Portuguese wake up wondering how they can say NO to anything asked of them. They're actually more negative and pessimistic than the Dutch, if you can imagine that, and I say that having lived in Holland for 7 years before moving to Lagos. I also speak Dutch and Portuguese, so it wasn't language causing issues. The Thais, on the other hand, can't wait to say yes, or whatever else they think you want to hear, all the while beaming those incredible, sincere smiles. ???? The other big difference is that in Portugal there is actually a rule of law and a credible judicial system (wish I could say the same about Thailand), even though their governmental bureaucracy isn't much better than Thailand's. I've been waiting 4 years for my Portuguese driver's license which is automatically issued when you turn in a valid US driver's license. Here in Thailand, it took me about an hour, and that was because I had to take the driving test and there were people in front of me in line.

 

My reasons for moving to Thailand had nothing to do with either country's system, rather, I was living in Lagos, basically a young, fun, touristy place, where every Portuguese and half of Europe wants to vacation, with good reason, but it offers zero socially for a single male in his 60s, with rare exceptions (BIG SIGH). I was literally dying of loneliness in the winter when there was zero tourism and therefore zero chance of just meeting and interacting with people. Thailand is the polar opposite in that regard, no matter where you are. I have no regrets about moving to Thailand, despite the obvious nonsense here, as my quality of life is now exponentially better, the loneliness issue no longer being a factor, not the least of reasons. I also feel as though Thailand is less expensive than Lagos and I live in Koh Samui, the Lagos of Thailand, which I am going to visit for 2 weeks in September.

What a nice cool post giving some counterbalance.

 

Yes I heard those tourist places in south Portugal are pretty empty in the winters.

 

I think no mater what, I keep "my head quarters" here in Thailand and travel around in EU during the summers when retiring.

[Mavideol]

On 6/10/2019 at 7:06 AM, KittenKong said:

The pensions (state or otherwise) come from Britain and are spent in the host country. This is the very best sort of money any country can get: money coming from outside its borders that is being spent directly into the local economy. And I wont even start to talk about the billions spent by British expats on property.

unfortunately Thailand doesn't see it like that 555

[connda]

On 6/7/2019 at 6:20 PM, simon43 said:

Mike, happy to contribute to this thread.  I recently considered moving to Laos or Cambodia, but finally decided that if I have to make a move (which I do!), then it will be back to Europe.  I'm planning to relocate back to the tiny country of Andorra, between France and Spain, where I briefly lived in the 1990's.

 

As mentioned in my thread running in the Pub sub-forum, Andorra is not just for the 'rich'.  It welcomes those with a modest income/savings as well.  I've done a spreadsheet of my monthly costs to rent an apartment, pay utility bills, eat food, pay for private health care etc and the total is only about $1,000 USD per month!

Interesting.  Can you post the spreadsheet?  It would be interesting to see the breakdown. ????

[Nowisee]

On 6/10/2019 at 2:07 AM, wisperone said:

I am heading to Italy in September to check it out...haven't been there in over 20 years.

Not looking for full time at this point, depending on the pros and cons, could be in the future.  As of now, I would never cut complete ties with the US, and don't think I ever would. Costs may be a issue, but food, healthcare, people, culture, architecture, history, natural beauty, activities, safety, are all pluses for me. May cost more, but you get what you pay for.

 

 

I agree.  

Thailand is increasing costs, just because they feel like they can, but you definitely don't get the same value.  

I've been on the fence for a couple of years, but the burning season, latest rounds of immigration changes along with my last trip back (with the girlie friend) have enlighten me... and her.  

 

Summers in the north, including Canada, winters in the south, including parts of Mexico and CA.  

 

Easy enough to fly to Europe to explore part time life there.  
  

 

   

[wisperone]

On 6/9/2019 at 11:54 PM, seasia said:

Hi

 

I am off to there this Sunday, 4 month stay ( had originally planed 5.)

Similar to yourself, not looking for full time

I was last there about 18 months ago and prior to that had a visit every  year for about 5 years in a row.

Yes , agree 100 % on the plus points. 

oh...great for you...enjoy! Hope it works out for you.

[Aforek]

On 6/10/2019 at 12:31 AM, madmen said:

Most of the East European countries are cheaper than Thailand with beautiful country sides and amazing architecture and the stunners are cheaper to rent  . Im Serbian so eventually will spend summers there and winters here. Cant comment on their retirement visas etc but wouldn't be hard to find out

Don't know at all East Europe ( I am French ), but I have heard that these countries are very cold in winter; climate in important for me, and I like Thailand for the sun and heat

 I confess I have not think of Andorre, I am surprised that it's so cheap, for a country near France and Spain