Ozman52 Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 8 minutes ago, simple1 said: OK. Though it is good news, the announcement of aid by the US is a complete U Turn by trump on fairly recent decisions to terminate or drastically reduce aid to the source countries. The US / Mexico agreement for returning asylum seekers to Mexico until their status has been finalised is in breach of international laws. My take is US will fully fund the Mexican costs for the asylum seekers being supported by Mexico, plus costs for deploying 6,000 security personnel to Mexico's southern border. What is further good news is the tariff now not being implemented as it would have hurt both US and Mexico. Is trump finally gaining a bit of common sense? Maybe we need to take a good, hard, long look at some international laws. Thousands of N.Africans are heading for Europe, thousands of Central Americans are heading for the USA, and latest west Africans shipping themselves to Brazil and central america and heading for the US border, all hoping to circumvent immigration laws with a sob story. The impetus driving them is that others have succeeded, as soon as the gate is shut in their face the flow will stop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozman52 Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 1 hour ago, Dumbastheycome said: Conditionally. In an ironic twist it would appear that the US will pay, not Mexico. No pay, no play. Ok? lol Would you like to compare prices of Mexican troops relative to US Border guards plus a multi-billion dollar wall? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billd766 Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 10 hours ago, Tug said: Some how I’m not surprised guess he realized the gop weren’t going to let him get away with it Please be fair to him. He made the decision a few days ago and perhaps as an aged person his attention span is shorter than it was. At 75 I know mine is shorter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dumbastheycome Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 15 minutes ago, Ozman52 said: Would you like to compare prices of Mexican troops relative to US Border guards plus a multi-billion dollar wall? That needs some explanation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billd766 Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 3 hours ago, Sealbash said: Mexico has more border? Please clarify Sent from my iPad using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app Think about it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borders_of_Mexico 1 To the north, the United States–Mexico border, which extends for a length of 3,141 kilometres (1,952 mi)[1] through the states of Baja California, Sonora, Chihuahua, Coahuila, Nuevo León and Tamaulipas. 2 To the southeast, the Belize–Mexico border, 251 kilometres (156 mi) long,[2] limiting the states of Quintana Roo and Campeche and almost exclusively following the course of the Río Hondo. 3 Also to the southeast, the Guatemala–Mexico border, which measures 871 kilometres (541 mi)[3] and touches the states of Quintana Roo, Campeche, Tabasco and Chiapas, and includes stretches of the Río Usumacinta, Río Salinas and Río Suchiate. 3 hours ago, Sealbash said: Okay, so we will choose to ignore the fact that USA actually does have more border than Mexico Sent from my iPad using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app But the thread is all about the USA/Mexico border. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dumbastheycome Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 23 minutes ago, Ozman52 said: Maybe we need to take a good, hard, long look at some international laws. Thousands of N.Africans are heading for Europe, thousands of Central Americans are heading for the USA, and latest west Africans shipping themselves to Brazil and central america and heading for the US border, all hoping to circumvent immigration laws with a sob story. The impetus driving them is that others have succeeded, as soon as the gate is shut in their face the flow will stop. The impetus that is driving them is that others have succeeded in escaping inhumanitarian conditions brought about by? Trust me, research in real terms may have an effect in a more educated answer ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dumbastheycome Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 21 minutes ago, billd766 said: Please be fair to him. He made the decision a few days ago and perhaps as an aged person his attention span is shorter than it was. At 75 I know mine is shorter. I somehow doubt that. Your attention span shows evidence of comprehension. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billd766 Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 37 minutes ago, Dumbastheycome said: I somehow doubt that. Your attention span shows evidence of comprehension. Well thankee young master. ???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozman52 Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 34 minutes ago, Dumbastheycome said: The impetus that is driving them is that others have succeeded in escaping inhumanitarian conditions brought about by? Trust me, research in real terms may have an effect in a more educated answer ! Neither I or my country, or for that matter any other developed country, have the responsibility of accepting every person who considers they would be better off living in our country rather than theirs. Certainly it is the right thing to do to offer less developed countries assistance, but that does not extend to giving their citizens free entry and residence. To put in simpler terms for you, if you knock on my front door you may be offered help. If you want to sneak in the back door, or kick it in, don't expect such a civilised response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dumbastheycome Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 Just now, Ozman52 said: Neither I or my country, or for that matter any other developed country, have the responsibility of accepting every person who considers they would be better off living in our country rather than theirs. Certainly it is the right thing to do to offer less developed countries assistance, but that does not extend to giving their citizens free entry and residence. To put in simpler terms for you, if you knock on my front door you may be offered help. If you want to sneak in the back door, or kick it in, don't expect such a civilised response. You ignore the reason to knock on the door even it be the almighty inflictor of the need? Or is that a factor summarily dismissed in the interest of maintaining the pseudo right of the infliction?????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dumbastheycome Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 9 minutes ago, billd766 said: Well thankee young master. ???? lol. I am not far behind you. I remain master of only my thoughts whilst my body taunts me with reminders of how I came to now ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neeray Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 8 hours ago, mtls2005 said: OK, I'm confused. Barely 10 days ago trump said tariffs on Mexico would make us rich, bring back jobs and stop drugs. And then he folds like a cheap lawn chair in the fall; leaving us with no money, no jobs and plenty of drugs? Amazing.........isn't a word I'd use to describe trump. One assumes he slept through Econ101 at Fordham? Trump Says Companies Will Move From Mexico If He Imposes Tariffs President Donald Trump said that if he imposes tariffs on Mexico, companies will leave that country to avoid paying them and relocate to the U.S. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-05-31/trump-says-companies-will-move-from-mexico-if-he-imposes-tariffs Don't try too hard to figure Trump out. It may be detrimental to your overall health. He himself is still trying to figure out which end is up. His minions and followers are too but for now they are like the rats following the orders of the Pied Piper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neeray Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 8 hours ago, Boon Mee said: He called off the tariffs because Mexico capitulated Geeze... As at least one other poster has pointed out, Mexico "played" Trump on this one. Played him like a flute. This was all just a bluff, as easy to see through as a clean glazing. Mexico was the winner on this one. They appeased the great bluffer and let him think he won something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simple1 Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 9 hours ago, Ozman52 said: Neither I or my country, or for that matter any other developed country, have the responsibility of accepting every person who considers they would be better off living in our country rather than theirs. Certainly it is the right thing to do to offer less developed countries assistance, but that does not extend to giving their citizens free entry and residence. To put in simpler terms for you, if you knock on my front door you may be offered help. If you want to sneak in the back door, or kick it in, don't expect such a civilised response. All countries who have signed and ratified the UN Convention for Refugees are required to access the claim of refugee status, as does Australia. The difference for Australia is that contrary to the UN Convention they were diverted to the third party country detention camps. The cost to the Australian taxpayer has been and is enormous; approx AUD400k p.a. per detainee. Most of the detainees have been positively assessed as genuine refugees, but it has been an extremely slow exercise to find third party countries to resettle them. Those whose claims were rejected have either returned to their home countries, or still in indefinite detention with excruciating slow resettlement process, some so far six years at AUD400k p.a. each. The US has struct an agreement with Mexico, but at this stage we do not know the costs involved for holding thousands of asylum seeking and 6,000 Mexican national guards, plus god only knows the cost of secret agreements which often occur out of the public eye. The US has severely cut back it's asylum seeker quota (currently 30k p.a.), one assumes the same applies to Humanitarian Visas for those not suffering political oppression, but from the various forms of violence which are epidemic in Central America. Overall it is clear that US policies are contributing to asylum seekers suffering worldwide. How a nation as wealthy and powerful as the US can sit back and be purely self centred (MAGA) and the author of the policies a pathological liar can be adored by a large minority is to me baffling. In the positive one hopes the trump U Turn is an indicator of more changes to come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Credo Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 What a canard. Mexico has been building up it's troops on the Southern border for some time. It has increased repatriations from some where in the low thousands (I think around 8,000) to 23,000 more recently. Mexico had agreed to allow migrants to stay in Mexico and get work permits, this was done many months ago. It also agreed to allow some to remain in Mexico while their asylum claim is heard. This however, is legally questionable under US law. The administration never gave numbers. "Substantial" isn't a number. Mexico will continue to do what it has been doing with some expansion. The Mexican gov't also requested that the US reinstate aid taken away from the countries of origin and give humanitarian assistance to stop the outflow. I don't know if that has been agreed to, although I don't know how effective an agreement on foreign aid for a third country would work out. People are not pawns and tariffs are not related to this situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thakkar Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 12 hours ago, simple1 said: OK. Though it is good news, the announcement of aid by the US is a complete U Turn by trump on fairly recent decisions to terminate or drastically reduce aid to the source countries. The US / Mexico agreement for returning asylum seekers to Mexico until their status has been finalised is in breach of international laws. My take is US will fully fund the Mexican costs for the asylum seekers being supported by Mexico, plus costs for deploying 6,000 security personnel to Mexico's southern border. What is further good news is the tariff now not being implemented as it would have hurt both US and Mexico. Is trump finally gaining a bit of common sense? It is good news, but was agreed months ago. Simply announcing that agreement wouldn’t have made his base orgasm. There needed to be some cursory foreplay, and the reality show performer did the clown show for his minions and they bought it. The New York Times (@nytimes) 6/9/19, 3:19 AM Breaking News: President Trump hailed his new deal with Mexico to avoid tariffs. But the terms were actually agreed on months ago, officials in both nations said. nyti.ms/2R69oCB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tug Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 As credo stated looks like Mexico had agreed months ago to man up their southern border looks like this one was another lie distraction ploy by the very stable genius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berkshire Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 16 minutes ago, Thakkar said: It is good news, but was agreed months ago. Simply announcing that agreement wouldn’t have made his base orgasm. There needed to be some cursory foreplay, and the reality show performer did the clown show for his minions and they bought it. The New York Times (@nytimes) 6/9/19, 3:19 AM Breaking News: President Trump hailed his new deal with Mexico to avoid tariffs. But the terms were actually agreed on months ago, officials in both nations said. nyti.ms/2R69oCB Classic. Trump threatens tariffs to show he's playing hardball, appeasing his base but freaking out everyone else. But the agreements had already been made with Mexico months ago, so there was never going to be tariffs. And magically, Trump announces a new agreement and says Mexico succumbed to his tactics. Only the dumbest of the dumb will fall for this. Any Trump supporters in the room? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thakkar Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 12 hours ago, billd766 said: Please be fair to him. He made the decision a few days ago and perhaps as an aged person his attention span is shorter than it was. At 75 I know mine is shorter. Well, yeah, I er, um...wait, what were we talking about? ???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thakkar Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 21 minutes ago, Berkshire said: Classic. Trump threatens tariffs to show he's playing hardball, appeasing his base but freaking out everyone else. But the agreements had already been made with Mexico months ago, so there was never going to be tariffs. And magically, Trump announces a new agreement and says Mexico succumbed to his tactics. Only the dumbest of the dumb will fall for this. Any Trump supporters in the room? He has done this so often, causing markets to see-saw that one has to wonder if there were people who knew in advance the exact timing of him announcing one thing, and then the other, and whether they profited from that knowledge? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayned Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 He created the problem, he solved the problem so it's time for him to pat himself on the back. He really doesn't care what happens to those already in Mexico or those that are still trying to cross the Southern border. If the Mexican President authorized the use of lethal force he could care less. The US doesn't have the infrastructure to take in the immigrants what makes him think that a poorer country like Mexico does/ It's just another one of his BS actions! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Longcut Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 On 6/8/2019 at 8:31 AM, mtls2005 said: Ah yes, no doubt a "win". But it is good to see that everyone (economists, WH, family, staff, republicans, outside "friends") close to trump was able to get through to him on the folly of this endeavor. Imagine Stephen Miller is self-medicating though. A Hell of a lot more than Congress has done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mavideol Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 oh yeah, another BS win and a punch of crap.... the talks and agreements about Mexico stepping up border controls at Guatemala border, adding more troops and so forth were concluded/agreed a couple months ago, nothing new, he just played it as he always does, getting credit for something he didn't do, that Nielsen lady, from homeland security made the deal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayned Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 1 hour ago, Longcut said: A Hell of a lot more than Congress has done. Really, the house has passed over 235 bills since the first of the year but the Senate has only passed 17 of them and guess who controls the Senate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sujo Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 I get it. Trump promised to stop the flow. But during his term the flow increased to record numbers so he called an emergency. So all Trump has done is to try and lessen the record number of asylum seekers that he himself caused. Facts are facts. The influx of asylum seekers and illegals has increased to record numbers under his watch. So much winning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mavideol Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 4 minutes ago, Sujo said: I get it. Trump promised to stop the flow. But during his term the flow increased to record numbers so he called an emergency. So all Trump has done is to try and lessen the record number of asylum seekers that he himself caused. Facts are facts. The influx of asylum seekers and illegals has increased to record numbers under his watch. So much winning. did you ever consider that maybe and yes maybe Trump is behind the increased number of asylum seekers/illegals/whatever they want to call it, maybe he did it to justify his demand for wall funding and negotiate immigration laws with Dems.... whit this guy anything and everything is possible, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sujo Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 1 hour ago, Mavideol said: did you ever consider that maybe and yes maybe Trump is behind the increased number of asylum seekers/illegals/whatever they want to call it, maybe he did it to justify his demand for wall funding and negotiate immigration laws with Dems.... whit this guy anything and everything is possible, Possible. Tho i dont think Trump has the intelligence to think. Maybe Miller suggested it. but I take your point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Longcut Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 1 hour ago, wayned said: Really, the house has passed over 235 bills since the first of the year but the Senate has only passed 17 of them and guess who controls the Senate? They have done zero, when it comes to immigration on the southern border except get in the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayned Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 6 minutes ago, Longcut said: They have done zero, when it comes to immigration" In February there was a bipartisan spending bill which passed both the House and Senate and was signed by POTUS which included funding for significant border resources. "There is money there for increased judges to adjudicate the cases more quickly; there is funding there for humanitarian assistance for the people coming in; there is money for repairs and for physical necessities that may be there; and there is funding to send to countries of the Northern Triangle [Guatemala, Honduras, and El Salvador] to try to alleviate the problem before it reaches our shores," Pelosi told reporters. " What has Trump done with the money? Nothing, but ask for more! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OtinPattaya Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 I always love watching Brits, Europeans, and Scandinavians comment on Donald Trump. Especially where entirely domestic American matters are concerned. Because everyone of you non-Americans are magically an expert because you watch the BBC and subscribe to a few Facebook channels. I'd love to see what your own leaders are doing other than capitulating to the very rosy sensation of political good sensation. You don't like Trump's tariffs on China? Great! Why don't the rest of you Brit, Euro, and Scandinavians do something different? Make some news yourselves. You don't like America's policies, why not have some policies of your own, rather than remaining perpetually non-committal? Forget about Mexico. When is the UK, Germany, France, Sweden, going to stand up to China. NEVER! That's when. Unfortunately that leaves America. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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