UK PM candidate Raab says suspending parliament remains a Brexit option

[Nigel Garvie]

On 6/12/2019 at 9:41 AM, Chomper Higgot said:

snip

 

On a more serious point, what you are observing is the fracture in British society caused by the growing wealth gap. The very few haves and the very many have nots.

Whatever saying you use...........Turkeys voting for Xmas, trees voting for lumberjacks, etc etc, it has always remained a remarkable fact that a large proportion of the British working class (Over 50% in the case of England apparently) vote for Tory Toffs who are going to shaft them without mercy. The "All the news we can twist"  Redtops may have had a major effect here ever since Rupe the antichrist bought the Sun, (in the 60s I think).  

 

Like another country some here know well, the leaders are only interested in lining their own pockets. The Tory leadership contest illustrates this vividly. It is not a case of are they corrupt, but a question of to what level of venality they have actually sunk. 

 

A couple of red buses illustrate my point.

 

 

[beautifulthailand99]

On 6/12/2019 at 3:53 PM, Nigel Garvie said:

Whatever saying you use...........Turkeys voting for Xmas, trees voting for lumberjacks, etc etc, it has always remained a remarkable fact that a large proportion of the British working class (Over 50% in the case of England apparently) vote for Tory Toffs who are going to shaft them without mercy. The "All the news we can twist"  Redtops may have had a major effect here ever since Rupe the antichrist bought the Sun, (in the 60s I think).  

 

Like another country some here know well, the leaders are only interested in lining their own pockets. The Tory leadership contest illustrates this vividly. It is not a case of are they corrupt, but a question of to what level of venality they have actually sunk. 

 

A couple of red buses illustrate my point.

 

Tragically what Brexit (and Trump) in the Us has highlighted is how easy large portions of the working class can be manipulated by simplistic tropes and sloganeerings all wrapped up in the flag to advance the interests of the ruling class. But it was ever thus - a hundred years ago they would be marching proudly to their slaughter to the killing fields of the Somme fighting a pointless war against their working-class German comrades when they should have united and turned their guns on the warring related European Royal families. As Oscar Wilde said patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel....

[Laughing Gravy]

1 hour ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

Tragically what Brexit (and Trump) in the Us has highlighted is how easy large portions of the working class can be manipulated by simplistic tropes and sloganeerings all wrapped up in the flag to advance the interests of the ruling class. But it was ever thus - a hundred years ago they would be marching proudly to their slaughter to the killing fields of the Somme fighting a pointless war against their working-class German comrades when they should have united and turned their guns on the warring related European Royal families. As Oscar Wilde said patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel....

Sadly another remainer who is still going on about a red bus that most Brexiteers that I know thought it laughable. Please show me where the evidence this red bus made people vote for Brexit. I would suggest that it is nonsense and just an excuse by remainers to feel justified that 'we are all wrong'.

 

Linking the world war and leaving the EU is quite pathetic and disrespectful to all those who served in the war and 1 million soldiers (could be more) that died at the Somme.

[sandyf]

10 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Please show me where the evidence this red bus made people vote for Brexit. I would suggest that it is nonsense and just an excuse by remainers to feel justified that 'we are all wrong'.

When people voted to leave did they give any thought to the Belfast agreement or the peoples of Gibraltar and Scotland, of course not, and with 85% of the electorate in England, whatever England wanted  the UK would get.

More importantly when people voted to leave did they give any thought to where the money was going to come from, of course not, the state will provide.

The country was already in the grips of austerity and the vote to leave opened up a bottomless pit that money has just been thrown into. TM kicked it off with a extremely expensive and unnecessary court case, but she couldn't pay for the elderly, passed that over to local councils.

Do you really think it is "right" that money is thrown at brexit from all directions while virtually every essential service in the country is at crisis point?

[nontabury]

5 hours ago, sandyf said:

When people voted to leave did they give any thought to the Belfast agreement or the peoples of Gibraltar and Scotland, of course not, and with 85% of the electorate in England, whatever England wanted  the UK would get.

More importantly when people voted to leave did they give any thought to where the money was going to come from, of course not, the state will provide.

The country was already in the grips of austerity and the vote to leave opened up a bottomless pit that money has just been thrown into. TM kicked it off with a extremely expensive and unnecessary court case, but she couldn't pay for the elderly, passed that over to local councils.

Do you really think it is "right" that money is thrown at brexit from all directions while virtually every essential service in the country is at crisis point?

 

 

Of course they did. As regards to the Belfast agreement and the border with the Irish republic. Please note, that NOW the Bureaucrats in Brussels are contemplating useing technology to facilitate the transport of goods from the Irish republic. Yet only a couple of months ago they were stating that no technology existed, when this was suggested by the Brexiteers.

 

 

 

[sandyf]

23 hours ago, nontabury said:

 

Of course they did. As regards to the Belfast agreement and the border with the Irish republic. Please note, that NOW the Bureaucrats in Brussels are contemplating useing technology to facilitate the transport of goods from the Irish republic. Yet only a couple of months ago they were stating that no technology existed, when this was suggested by the Brexiteers.

 

Brexit means a hard border in Ireland, fact of international law, it has always been a question of how to disguise it. Brexiteers have always claimed they wanted to close the borders to the UK.

Note that you failed to comment

"Do you really think it is "right" that money is thrown at brexit from all directions while virtually every essential service in the country is at crisis point?"

[nontabury]

1 hour ago, sandyf said:

Brexit means a hard border in Ireland, fact of international law, it has always been a question of how to disguise it. Brexiteers have always claimed they wanted to close the borders to the UK.

Note that you failed to comment

"Do you really think it is "right" that money is thrown at brexit from all directions while virtually every essential service in the country is at crisis point?"

 

 You are so wrong on many points. You state Briexit means a hard boarder, yet strangely after many months of denying it’s possibility, the Bureaucrats in Brussels are now admitting that the technology does in fact exist.

 And again Brexiteers have never championed the proposal to close the boarder,and neither did the government of the Irish republic, until they were lent on by The E.u. All you have to do,is look at the discussion in the Irish Parliament, regarding this point,it’s on YouTube 

And finally I do not agree that money should be thrown on trying to overturn the Democratic vote of the British people, in their decision to leave this so called u ion.

[Loiner]

2 hours ago, sandyf said:

Brexiteers have always claimed they wanted to close the borders to the UK.

Not true. The pre-referendum call was to "Take back control of our borders." not close them. 

[sandyf]

On 6/14/2019 at 4:36 PM, nontabury said:

 

 You are so wrong on many points. You state Briexit means a hard boarder, yet strangely after many months of denying it’s possibility, the Bureaucrats in Brussels are now admitting that the technology does in fact exist.

 And again Brexiteers have never championed the proposal to close the boarder,and neither did the government of the Irish republic, until they were lent on by The E.u. All you have to do,is look at the discussion in the Irish Parliament, regarding this point,it’s on YouTube 

And finally I do not agree that money should be thrown on trying to overturn the Democratic vote of the British people, in their decision to leave this so called u ion.

You can try and dress it up any way you want. When the Belfast agreement was signed both sides of the borders were citizens of the EU, post brexit those in the north with a UK passport will become foreign nationals as far as the south is concerned, hardly in the spirit of the Agreement. Of course to brexiteers, nothing more than an irritating technicality.

Little wonder there has been a surge in applications for Irish passports, resolution will come with the reunification.

Your response on the money highlights how little respect the brexiteers have for the essential services, brexit means brexit whatever the cost.

[sandyf]

23 hours ago, Loiner said:

Not true. The pre-referendum call was to "Take back control of our borders." not close them. 

Selective memory. The UK has always had control of the borders, nothing to take back.

The rhetoric was always aimed at closing the borders to all immigrants, both Non EU and EU and then trying to argue the toss over who should be allowed in.

Post brexit, those from the ROI would effectively become EU immigrants, all part and parcel of the rhetoric.

[nontabury]

1 hour ago, sandyf said:

You can try and dress it up any way you want. When the Belfast agreement was signed both sides of the borders were citizens of the EU, post brexit those in the north with a UK passport will become foreign nationals as far as the south is concerned, hardly in the spirit of the Agreement. Of course to brexiteers, nothing more than an irritating technicality.

Little wonder there has been a surge in applications for Irish passports, resolution will come with the reunification.

Your response on the money highlights how little respect the brexiteers have for the essential services, brexit means brexit whatever the cost.

 

  You will find that the vast majority of those in the north, who support the U.K remaining in the E.u. are already in possession of a Irish Passport. As they would prefer to be Irish citizens rather than British. So no change there.

[nontabury]

1 hour ago, sandyf said:

Selective memory. The UK has always had control of the borders, nothing to take back.

The rhetoric was always aimed at closing the borders to all immigrants, both Non EU and EU and then trying to argue the toss over who should be allowed in.

Post brexit, those from the ROI would effectively become EU immigrants, all part and parcel of the rhetoric.

Rightly or wrongly, citizens of the Irish Republic have always received a traditional preference,regarding moving to live and work in the U.K. 

After Brexit is achieved, the British government has already stated that nothing will change.

[bomber]

On 6/12/2019 at 8:56 PM, beautifulthailand99 said:

Tragically what Brexit (and Trump) in the Us has highlighted is how easy large portions of the working class can be manipulated by simplistic tropes and sloganeerings all wrapped up in the flag to advance the interests of the ruling class. But it was ever thus - a hundred years ago they would be marching proudly to their slaughter to the killing fields of the Somme fighting a pointless war against their working-class German comrades when they should have united and turned their guns on the warring related European Royal families. As Oscar Wilde said patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel....

it seems britain is still at war,i cannot recall the name of the brexiteer on here a while back but he was stating the EU migrants were to blame for all the stabbings in his beloved london,what a liar,anyway another 2 within 15 minutes of each other to add to the list today.

Two London teens killed within 15 minutes of each other - BBC News.html

[bomber]

On 6/14/2019 at 11:38 AM, Loiner said:

Not true. The pre-referendum call was to "Take back control of our borders." not close them. 

YIPPEEE lets keep those alcoholic jockoneese male skirt wearing riff raff with red noses out,hard border for me,hadrian's wall though not a trashy Trump thing.

[bomber]

10 hours ago, nontabury said:

Rightly or wrongly, citizens of the Irish Republic have always received a traditional preference,regarding moving to live and work in the U.K. 

After Brexit is achieved, the British government has already stated that nothing will change.

EU wouldnt allow it,the british govt tell porkies if you hadnt noticed,the biggest porky teller is soon to be leader,probably only fair tbh

[Scott]

Off-topic, inflammatory posts and replies removed.

 

[sandyf]

On 6/15/2019 at 6:14 PM, nontabury said:

 

  You will find that the vast majority of those in the north, who support the U.K remaining in the E.u. are already in possession of a Irish Passport. As they would prefer to be Irish citizens rather than British. So no change there.

Brexit blindness, if you cannot see the problem it isn't there.

[sandyf]

On 6/15/2019 at 6:22 PM, nontabury said:

Rightly or wrongly, citizens of the Irish Republic have always received a traditional preference,regarding moving to live and work in the U.K. 

After Brexit is achieved, the British government has already stated that nothing will change.

So some EU citizens will be more equal than others.

[dick dasterdly]

On 6/15/2019 at 6:22 PM, nontabury said:

Rightly or wrongly, citizens of the Irish Republic have always received a traditional preference,regarding moving to live and work in the U.K. 

After Brexit is achieved, the British government has already stated that nothing will change.

 

3 hours ago, sandyf said:

So some EU citizens will be more equal than others.

Yes, and when it comes to immigration - surely this makes sense?

[nontabury]

10 hours ago, sandyf said:

So some EU citizens will be more equal than others.

 

It has always been the case, that citizens of the Irish Republic have never had to abide by U.K immigration laws,as other countries have.

[SheungWan]

Exactly. Berco is a disgrace, he's not even bothering to pretend he's impartial any more. He needs removing. 

Not by Parliamentary means presumably.

Sent from my SM-N935F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[evadgib]

4 hours ago, SheungWan said:

Not by Parliamentary means presumably.

He is aware that bullying allegations against him haven't gone away...

[sandyf]

14 hours ago, nontabury said:

 

It has always been the case, that citizens of the Irish Republic have never had to abide by U.K immigration laws,as other countries have.

You can believe what you want, the truth will be revealed when the EU ESTA comes into effect. Take it you also believe that NI UK passports will not be subject to the same restrictions entering the EU as English, Welsh or Scottish UK passports.

[sandyf]

21 hours ago, dick dasterdly said:

 

Yes, and when it comes to immigration - surely this makes sense?

Maintaining context you are of the opinion that Irish criminals are more acceptable than say Romanian criminals.

I suspect however that you have deliberately tried to change the context.

[dick dasterdly]

17 minutes ago, sandyf said:

Maintaining context you are of the opinion that Irish criminals are more acceptable than say Romanian criminals.

I suspect however that you have deliberately tried to change the context.

You are one of the few remain posters I take seriously and worthy of respect.

 

The post above is beneath you.

 

Edit - Yes, I belatedly realised the funny juxtaposition in the second para. ????

[sandyf]

On 6/14/2019 at 4:36 PM, nontabury said:

And finally I do not agree that money should be thrown on trying to overturn the Democratic vote of the British people, in their decision to leave this so called u ion.

Simple question, How many doctors,nurses and police would this have paid for?

 

The government has stood down an army of 6,000 civil servants who had been preparing for a no-deal Brexit, at an estimated cost of £1.5bn.

The civil servants who had been seconded from elsewhere will now return to their normal duties, but there is no clear role for an estimated 4,500 new recruits after article 50 was extended until Halloween.

More than 16,000 civil servants in total have been working on Brexit.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/apr/11/uk-stands-down-6000-no-deal-brexit-staff-after-spending-15bn

 

Really is time the brexiteers faced up to the fact that the cost is crippling the country. If the Tories had announced all these recent additional spending initiatives 4 years ago, we wouldn't be in this mess. Money has always been available, just not for domestic problems, until crisis point.

[sandyf]

9 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

You are one of the few remain posters I take seriously and worthy of respect.

 

The post above is beneath you.

Try reading it again.

 

PS Post opened before your edit.

[dick dasterdly]

11 minutes ago, sandyf said:

Simple question, How many doctors,nurses and police would this have paid for?

 

The government has stood down an army of 6,000 civil servants who had been preparing for a no-deal Brexit, at an estimated cost of £1.5bn.

The civil servants who had been seconded from elsewhere will now return to their normal duties, but there is no clear role for an estimated 4,500 new recruits after article 50 was extended until Halloween.

More than 16,000 civil servants in total have been working on Brexit.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/apr/11/uk-stands-down-6000-no-deal-brexit-staff-after-spending-15bn

 

Really is time the brexiteers faced up to the fact that the cost is crippling the country. If the Tories had announced all these recent additional spending initiatives 4 years ago, we wouldn't be in this mess. Money has always been available, just not for domestic problems, until crisis point.

I'm obviously missing something here.  Why would the govt. get rid of civil servants planning for the possibility of no deal?

 

They have plans to ensure this will never happen?

 

Mind you, the article is "more than 2 months old" and in The Guardian - but it would be interesting to know whether the govt. genuinely got rid of the civil servants formed to prepare in case of 'no deal'!

[simple1]

1 hour ago, dick dasterdly said:

I'm obviously missing something here.  Why would the govt. get rid of civil servants planning for the possibility of no deal?

 

They have plans to ensure this will never happen?

 

Mind you, the article is "more than 2 months old" and in The Guardian - but it would be interesting to know whether the govt. genuinely got rid of the civil servants formed to prepare in case of 'no deal'!

They were 'stood down' i.e. gone back to their usual work / reallocated.

[nontabury]

3 hours ago, simple1 said:

They were 'stood down' i.e. gone back to their usual work / reallocated.

 

Apart from the Guardian,what other proof that this has actually occurred.