david555 Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 24 minutes ago, nauseus said: Transition period was 21 months so about 17 million. Maybe they charge for the extensions ...???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nauseus Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 Just now, david555 said: Maybe they charge for the extensions ...???? I'm sure they will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aright Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 1 hour ago, david555 said: never satisfied .... oh that's the problem ….o.K. never pay ….. bare the consequenses You mean like Germany not paying the agreed 2% of GDP to fund NATO? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david555 Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 1 hour ago, aright said: You mean like Germany not paying the agreed 2% of GDP to fund NATO? Nono , more funny things more directed to the defaulting country ….???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welovesundaysatspace Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 1 hour ago, aright said: You mean like Germany not paying the agreed 2% of GDP to fund NATO? That would be an issue the NATO would have to solve with Germany, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nauseus Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 deleted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aright Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 3 hours ago, welovesundaysatspace said: That would be an issue the NATO would have to solve with Germany, no? If NATO is to continue to exist It needs to be resolved with the USA, the major contributor, and those member states who are paying the agreed 2% of GDP and the possible future lives of their military personnel...……….Freeloaders should be ashamed. Since Donald Trump became President of the US, Washington has put increased pressure on NATO allies to up their military spending. Trump’s Vice President Mike Pence warned on a recent visit to Munich that “the promise to share the burden of our defence has gone unfulfilled for too many, for too long and it erodes the very foundation of our alliance." NATO members pledged in 2014 to spend 2 percent of the GDP on defence by the year 2024, but currently only five members of the 28-member alliance meet this target. https://www.thelocal.de/20170301/this-is-how-much-german-military-spending-has-grown-over-time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welovesundaysatspace Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 33 minutes ago, aright said: If NATO is to continue to exist It needs to be resolved with the USA, the major contributor, and those member states who are paying the agreed 2% of GDP and the possible future lives of their military personnel...……….Freeloaders should be ashamed. Since Donald Trump became President of the US, Washington has put increased pressure on NATO allies to up their military spending. Trump’s Vice President Mike Pence warned on a recent visit to Munich that “the promise to share the burden of our defence has gone unfulfilled for too many, for too long and it erodes the very foundation of our alliance." NATO members pledged in 2014 to spend 2 percent of the GDP on defence by the year 2024, but currently only five members of the 28-member alliance meet this target. https://www.thelocal.de/20170301/this-is-how-much-german-military-spending-has-grown-over-time Wrong thread? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aright Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 16 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said: Wrong thread? Possibly. It was just a parallel response to Brexit responsibility payments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welovesundaysatspace Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 2 minutes ago, aright said: Possibly. It was just a parallel response to Brexit responsibility payments. You mean like telling your gym you’re not going to pay your membership fee because you saw that your neighbor didn’t pay his phone bill? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aright Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 4 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said: You mean like telling your gym you’re not going to pay your membership fee because you saw that your neighbor didn’t pay his phone bill? No like saying don't be a hypocrite and complain about me not paying my bills when you haven't paid your own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thongkorn Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 1 hour ago, aright said: If NATO is to continue to exist It needs to be resolved with the USA, the major contributor, and those member states who are paying the agreed 2% of GDP and the possible future lives of their military personnel...……….Freeloaders should be ashamed. Since Donald Trump became President of the US, Washington has put increased pressure on NATO allies to up their military spending. Trump’s Vice President Mike Pence warned on a recent visit to Munich that “the promise to share the burden of our defence has gone unfulfilled for too many, for too long and it erodes the very foundation of our alliance." NATO members pledged in 2014 to spend 2 percent of the GDP on defence by the year 2024, but currently only five members of the 28-member alliance meet this target. https://www.thelocal.de/20170301/this-is-how-much-german-military-spending-has-grown-over-time Britain has been contributing to NATO since 1947, France early 70s Germany France Spain Italia, Holland Belgium, Very littel So Britain has been paying for Europe's protection along with America, And Britain is usual;y one of the first in, in any conflict costing billions. The RAF are now in The Crimea although Not included in EU Meetings. protecting Europe from a Russian invasion, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAG Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 22 minutes ago, Thongkorn said: Britain has been contributing to NATO since 1947, France early 70s Germany France Spain Italia, Holland Belgium, Very littel So Britain has been paying for Europe's protection along with America, And Britain is usual;y one of the first in, in any conflict costing billions. The RAF are now in The Crimea although Not included in EU Meetings. protecting Europe from a Russian invasion, To make sense of this argument you have to consider the military capability of the European components of NATO, and indeed of any putative EU army. Only the UK and The French Republic have any significant independent capability. The Dutch and the Danes are experienced (Afghanistan) but are simply too small to operate on their own. There they paired with the British (doctrine, training and language) and were well regarded. The German Army is in the throes of constant re-organisation, and crippled by a reluctance on the part of it's government to deploy it. The rest of them are not really effective - for many years it was considered within NATO that the difference between the Belgian Army and a slice of toast was that it was possible to make soldiers out of a slice of toast! Unkind, but there you are. As far as NATO is concerned, well the only real players are the British and the French. The rest are token forces. If we think any future EU army, it will have to be built upon and run by the French. Good luck to them! Incidentally, I hope that the RAF are not in the Crimea! I know that Crab Air's map reading is a bit iffy sometimes but it wouldn't half cause a fuss! Luckily I am too old to be recalled to the colours, otherwise I would be waiting for a train to Catterick clutching a kit bag and my tin hat! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welovesundaysatspace Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 29 minutes ago, aright said: No like saying don't be a hypocrite and complain about me not paying my bills when you haven't paid your own. Like telling your gym you won’t pay your membership fee because you heard another gym member didn’t pay his phone bill, you mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aright Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 6 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said: Like telling your gym you won’t pay your membership fee because you heard another gym member didn’t pay his phone bill, you mean. I will have one more, last attempt at making it simpler for you No where have I said we shouldn't pay however I do sympathise with the don't pay argument. Like saying don't be a hypocrite to member states who complain about the possibility the UK won't pay severance when 22 of them don't pay and haven't paid for donkeys years the agreed 2% GDP dues for NATO. It seems member states are happy not to pay there dues but would expect the USA, UK and France to do the right thing and protect them if nudged or shoved. Comparing the 2 situations, goose and gander come to mind. I see no attempt on your part to criticise members for not paying their NATO dues so assume you are as au fait with that situation as much as I am understanding of no payment views. Hope this helps....off for a pint of Grimbergen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welovesundaysatspace Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 3 minutes ago, aright said: I will have one more, last attempt at making it simpler for you No where have I said we shouldn't pay however I do sympathise with the don't pay argument. Like saying don't be a hypocrite to member states who complain about the possibility the UK won't pay severance when 22 of them don't pay and haven't paid for donkeys years the agreed 2% GDP dues for NATO. It seems member states are happy not to pay there dues but would expect the USA, UK and France to do the right thing and protect them if nudged or shoved. Comparing the 2 situations, goose and gander come to mind. I see no attempt on your part to criticise members for not paying their NATO dues so assume you are as au fait with that situation as much as I am understanding of no payment views. Hope this helps....off for a pint of Grimbergen. Why would I criticize anyone for not paying their bills? When two parties A and B have a bill to settle then that’s their business alone. I just find it very creative to believe that the fact that parties C and D also might have a bill to settle would make any difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david555 Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 ( Now Bojo can hide himself after the E.U. future decision ...and blame them ,and wash his hands in innocence... as Pontius Pilatus …) Your almost out guy's , up to the cliff edge don't forget the jumpsuit(s) https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jun/20/eu-wont-negotiate-on-boris-johnson-brexit-plan-says-dutch-pm-mark-rutte UK heading for no-deal Brexit on 31 October, EU leaders conclude Irish PM says there is ‘enormous hostility’ to further extension among member states Britain will crash out of the EU on 31 October unless Theresa May’s Brexit deal is ratified or a new prime minister calls a second referendum or general election this summer, the bloc’s leaders have concluded. The Irish prime minister, Leo Varadkar, speaking at a summit in Brussels, said that there was now “enormous hostility” among the EU27’s heads of state and government to any further delay to Brexit. He said that while Ireland had “endless patience” it had become the firm position of a number of EU governments that the indecision in London needed to come to an end. An extension of the UK’s membership requires the unanimous support of the 27 member states. The European council president, Donald Tusk, had warned the UK not to waste the nine-month extension granted in April. “There’s very much a strong view across the EU that there shouldn’t be any more extensions,” Varadkar said on Thursday. “While I have endless patience, some of my colleagues have lost patience, quite frankly, with the UK and there’s enormous hostility to any further extension. Rutte, who described himself as a “certified Anglophile”, said: “If nothing is happening? If it would mean after 31 October again going through the rounds and these traditional talks – ‘Can we make changes?’ ‘No we can’t, because you have to change your red lines,’ – [then] there is no point in having an extension. “When a new prime minister comes in and asks for an extension we have to learn what his plan will be in terms of new elections, new referendum, making changes to the red lines the UK is currently holding … If there is no change on all those positions I cannot see why it makes any sense to negotiate longer.” more... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david555 Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 No deal crashing out means also ....no transition period ...and ... no implementation period if the wit drawl agreement is not signed ... So if I understand this correct , a clean cut on 31 October midnight ,U.K. becoming a third country with no trade deals or no other agreements …? So what is still agreed...? As it seems all is so to become blowing up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aright Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 3 hours ago, welovesundaysatspace said: Why would I criticize anyone for not paying their bills? When two parties A and B have a bill to settle then that’s their business alone. I just find it very creative to believe that the fact that parties C and D also might have a bill to settle would make any difference. It's even more creative to accuse the UK of not paying their bills when nothing has been finalised yet (saying you won't do something puts a quid pro quo card up your sleeve) nor will it until a new PM is in post. Saying you won't pay your bills is a negotiating position not a finality. You have obviously done very little negotiating. As always the EU's interests are much more important to you than the UK's and you tend to hang your hat on anything which might show the UK in a bad light albeit speculation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welovesundaysatspace Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 12 hours ago, aright said: It's even more creative to accuse the UK of not paying their bills when nothing has been finalised yet (saying you won't do something puts a quid pro quo card up your sleeve) nor will it until a new PM is in post. Saying you won't pay your bills is a negotiating position not a finality. You have obviously done very little negotiating. If I’m not mistaken, no one accused the UK of not paying their bills; it is Brexiteers threatening to do so. If not paying your bills is a “negotiating position” for you then go ahead with it. I believe it wouldn’t be the first time that Brexiteers heavily overestimated their negotiation power and shot themselves in the foot. Quote As always the EU's interests are much more important to you than the UK's and you tend to hang your hat on anything which might show the UK in a bad light albeit speculation. When Brexiteers threaten to refuse honoring financial obligations, then they are the ones showing themselves in bad light. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transam Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 4 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said: If I’m not mistaken, no one accused the UK of not paying their bills; it is Brexiteers threatening to do so. If not paying your bills is a “negotiating position” for you then go ahead with it. I believe it wouldn’t be the first time that Brexiteers heavily overestimated their negotiation power and shot themselves in the foot. When Brexiteers threaten to refuse honoring financial obligations, then they are the ones showing themselves in bad light. What obligations...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welovesundaysatspace Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 2 minutes ago, transam said: What obligations...? Financial obligations from the EU membership, such as EU budget contributions, projects, pension payments etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vogie Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 5 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said: Financial obligations from the EU membership, such as EU budget contributions, projects, pension payments etc. The divorce settled does not count as we will have walked away from the EU, technically we have become estranged, and to make matters worse we have been seeing the US behind your backs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welovesundaysatspace Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 2 minutes ago, vogie said: The divorce settled does not count as we will have walked away from the EU, technically we have become estranged, and to make matters worse Another genius move from the Brexiteer playbook. That surely will work out. ???? 2 minutes ago, vogie said: we have been seeing the US behind your backs. Brexiteers and Donald Dumb certainly would make a dream team! ???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vogie Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 1 minute ago, welovesundaysatspace said: Another genius move from the Brexiteer playbook. That surely will work out. ???? Brexiteers and Donald Dumb certainly would make a dream team! ???? Jean Claude Juncker, Donald Trump, go compare, go compare Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loiner Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 26 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said: Financial obligations from the EU membership, such as EU budget contributions, projects, pension payments etc. There are no 'obligations' from a club we are leaving. Your 39Bn or more is the equivalent of the Italian tourist spot ice cream scams. Total rip off at an inflated price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welovesundaysatspace Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 5 minutes ago, Loiner said: There are no 'obligations' from a club we are leaving. Your 39Bn or more is the equivalent of the Italian tourist spot ice cream scams. Total rip off at an inflated price. I’m afraid the EU doesn’t agree, so unless you wanna hide on your island behind all your stockpiled food and the lorries waiting at Dover, your threat will not work ???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transam Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 Just now, welovesundaysatspace said: I’m afraid the EU doesn’t agree, so unless you wanna hide on your island behind all your stockpiled food and the lorries waiting at Dover, your threat will not work ???? You're over reacting again aren't you....Now take a deep breath.......???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welovesundaysatspace Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 1 minute ago, transam said: You're over reacting again aren't you....Now take a deep breath.......???? Come one, let me enjoy the shytshow and stupidity of the Brexiteers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transam Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 1 minute ago, welovesundaysatspace said: Come one, let me enjoy the shytshow and stupidity of the Brexiteers. You seem to be doing what you accuse brexiteers of, mon ami.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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