Trump leaves China tariff deadline open, calls relationship 'testy'

[joecoolfrog]

On 6/13/2019 at 7:01 AM, tlandtday said:

Nothing is done overnight.  Relax the Trump Derangement Syndrome and it's clear to see China is feeling the heat and rightly so.  Keep turning up the pressure....

Fake news or Trump hater , standard and pathetic response from those who have no rebuttal.

Trade wars hurt everybody , Trump was told this by his own advisors , but appeasing his base is his only concern and they are so deluded they will lap up any nonsense they are told.

[tlandtday]

On 6/14/2019 at 3:08 PM, spidermike007 said:

China possesses countless cards.

1. They have cut their total worldwide exports to the US from over 50% 15 years ago, to less than 21% total. They are far less dependent on the US, than the US is dependent on them. 

2. Xi has over 70 IQ points over Trump. Easily. Trump cannot negotiate his way out of a paper bag. A horrible negotiator and deal maker.

3. China is far more visionary than the US. US foreign policy extends about 6 months into the future. China? 50 years.

4. China growth in 2018 was 6.5%. US growth was barely 3%. Experts predict the Chinese economy will eclipse the US economy in a matter of years, and by 2030, will surpass that of the US. It is also possible India will surpass the US five years after that. The US is in decline. It is just a matter of time. I say this as an American, with some objectivity. Some less conservative economists project the size of China's economy to be double that of the US, by 2040. Not that far away. US influence is in decline, and Trump has precipitated that decline dramatically. 

 

China is on course to be the world’s biggest economy by 2030, according to analysis that challenges Donald Trump’s claim that the U.S. is not about to be overtaken.

The forecast was made by economists at HSBC Holdings Plc in a new study of 75 nations published on Tuesday. It also saw the Chinese as remaining the single biggest contributor to global growth over the next decade. The projections suggest China’s gross domestic product will stand at $26 trillion in 2030, up from $14.1 trillion today. The U.S. meanwhile will see its GDP rise more slowly to $25.2 trillion from $20.4 trillion.

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-09-25/hsbc-sees-china-economy-set-to-pass-u-s-as-number-one-by-2030

 

5. The US holds $22 trillion in acknowledged long term debt. Since Cheney passed that heinous resolution that allowed the US to conduct both the Iraq and Afghanistan campaign entirely off the books, the real debt is probably somewhere between $27 trillion and $32 trillion. China? Private debt is high, largely due to speculation in real estate. But, federal debt is relatively low, and China is sitting on over $3 trillion in cash, while the US has perhaps under a billion in actual cash. It continues borrowing from one program, to pay for another. Not a sustainable M.O.

 

By mid-2017, the total amount of official debt owed by the federal, state and local governments was more than $19.4 trillion. That figure was $22 trillion, as of Feb. 17, 2019. Some experts add more than $120 trillion in unfunded future liabilities on the federal government balance sheet.

 

Of the $22 trillion in government debts, more than $5 trillion (a little less than one-third) is actually owned by the federal government in trust funds. These are accounts dedicated to Social Security, Medicare and other entitlements. In other words, the government wrote itself a really big IOU and bankrupted one account to finance another activity. IOUs are formed and financed through joint efforts of the U.S. Department of the Treasury and the Federal Reserve.

 

Much of the rest of the debt is owned by individual investors, corporations and other public entities. This includes everyone from retirees who purchase individual U.S. Treasurys to the Chinese government.

 

China took the top spot among foreign creditors at $1.123 trillion, followed by Japan, at $1.042 trillion, as of December 2018. 

 

https://www.investopedia.com/articles/investing/080615/china-owns-us-debt-how-much.asp

The US is only dependent on China because they have allowed a dependency to be created through unfair practices and exiting of manufacturing.  Put the tariffs in place and all this goes back to the USA.  

[spidermike007]

13 hours ago, tlandtday said:

The US is only dependent on China because they have allowed a dependency to be created through unfair practices and exiting of manufacturing.  Put the tariffs in place and all this goes back to the USA.  

It would take 15 years for the US to transfer manufacturing back to the US. Trump is long forgotten by then, and so is the war on globalization, which is as natural as water flowing off a mountain, after a storm. The relics will resist change with every molecule of their being. Will it make any difference? 

 

All the tariffs accomplish is to create a massive tax hike, for the American people, slow down the economy, and demonstrate what a terrible negotiator Trump really is.