britishjohn Posted June 13, 2019 Share Posted June 13, 2019 I know this has been discussed considerably, but here goes.... I am tenant in a Bangkok condo here on an OA visa, the owner is a foreigner and lives abroad. The management of the block are reminding people of the requirement for a TM30 although themselves don't want to get involved. I contacted the owner, he had never heard of it and I suspect reluctant to get dragged into yet more paperwork ! So now I'm in the position of pushing him to get it sorted as I assume it could have some effect on me, even though it hasn't so far. So my questions: Is this something he can do online ? Can he get an agent to do it for him ? What information will he require ? Am I required to inform the landlord every single time I return after a 24 hour stay away ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubonjoe Posted June 13, 2019 Share Posted June 13, 2019 You could do the report yourself. You would need a copy of your rental agreement. You would also need signed copies of his blue house book for the condo and a copy of his passport photo page. A copy of his Chanote may also be needed. He could possibley register to do online reporting. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lopburi3 Posted June 13, 2019 Share Posted June 13, 2019 41 minutes ago, britishjohn said: Is this something he can do online ? Can he get an agent to do it for him ? What information will he require ? Am I required to inform the landlord every single time I return after a 24 hour stay away ? Yes to all. He will require your information as listed on page 2 of TM30 form. And it is very important at this point that all addresses are exactly the same (kind of hard in Thailand where they spell differently on each form/map). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrJack54 Posted June 13, 2019 Share Posted June 13, 2019 Some people have reported success by doing it by post. You do this as "possessor". It would be helpful if someone could list what is required. My understanding is just the TM30 form filled out by you as possessor. Copy of lease. Passport identity page, tm6, last entry, visa page or extension reentry. Not much else? Any members done tm30 this way...advice appreciated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elviajero Posted June 13, 2019 Share Posted June 13, 2019 As you are the “possessor” (tenant) of the property you can probably report yourself on arrival to the property. However, if you apply for an extension of stay in the future they may insist on a report made by the owner before issuing an extension. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
britishjohn Posted June 14, 2019 Author Share Posted June 14, 2019 Sounds like the easiest way then is for him to attempt online registration otherwise get an agent to do it. Ideally I'd prefer not to get involved in something which is not strictly my responsibility. I bet he doesn't even know what a blue book is. What is it by the way ? So I assume the registration is a one off process ? And then every time I return to the property having spend a night away, he also goes online to report ? Is that how it works ? I tend to go away for a few days quite often, I can see how he could start to get pissed off after a while. How important is it to report every single trip no matter how short ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lopburi3 Posted June 14, 2019 Share Posted June 14, 2019 5 hours ago, britishjohn said: How important is it to report every single trip no matter how short ? It can be a 2,000 baht fine and immigration reports/requests may not be accepted if current report is other than what you write on form. It seems to be rather serious at the moment. Even reports of a night in hospital causing issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanoshi Posted June 14, 2019 Share Posted June 14, 2019 5 hours ago, britishjohn said: Sounds like the easiest way then is for him to attempt online registration otherwise get an agent to do it. Ideally I'd prefer not to get involved in something which is not strictly my responsibility. It is just as much your responsibility as the tenant as it is his as the landlord. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lopburi3 Posted June 14, 2019 Share Posted June 14, 2019 2 minutes ago, Tanoshi said: It is just as much your responsibility as the tenant as it is his as the landlord. They may be going there but that was and is not the intent by law. It is for the provider of accommodations to report foreign guests and until very recently was only applied to commercial lodging facilities (and even then many failed to do). As they have issues getting the persons intended to provide the reports they have shifted the onus to an easier target. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanoshi Posted June 14, 2019 Share Posted June 14, 2019 15 minutes ago, lopburi3 said: They may be going there but that was and is not the intent by law. It is for the provider of accommodations to report foreign guests and until very recently was only applied to commercial lodging facilities (and even then many failed to do). As they have issues getting the persons intended to provide the reports they have shifted the onus to an easier target. It's always been the responsibility of The house – master , the owner or the possessor of the residence, since 1979. The “House Master” is also defined as any persons who is the chief possessor of a house , whether in the capacity of owner, tenant, or in any other capacity whatsoever , in accordance with the law on people act. Foreigners can now register online without any use of Thai name or Thai ID. If it was purely the responsibility of the owner or landlord, then Immigration could not have posed fines on the expats for non compliance. The reason they have and within the law, is because the foreign is and always has been just as responsible for ensuring compliance. In know way am I suggesting the foreigner is solely responsible. Depending greatly on the situation and circumstances it should be established when taking up residence in a private accommodation who will undertake the responsibility. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasThBKK Posted June 14, 2019 Share Posted June 14, 2019 I hope you are aware op that you also have to pay Witholding Tax to the revenue department each month as your landlord is not a thai tax residence and the liability is shared between you and him. Quote The amount of withholding tax depends on whether the owner is a tax resident of Thailand and also whether the payer of the rental is a juristic person or an individual. If the owner is not a tax resident of Thailand the withholding tax rate is 15%. The legal status of the payer does not matter if the owner is not a tax resident of Thailand. If the owner is a tax resident of Thailand and the payer is a juristic person, the withholding tax rate is 5%. If the owner is a tax resident of Thailand and the payer is a natural person, there is no withholding tax applicable. https://www.duensingkippen.com/thailandpropertylawblog/?p=28 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ugots2Believe Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 Anyone have any clue or advice in the case that a condo unit owner (landlord) will not/does not comply with his TM 30 requirement to report to Immigration. He is also unwilling to assist in any way to allow me to report myself. He seems to feel that this entire procedure is without consequence to him or me in spite of several attempted explanations. What will suffice as evidence that I have notified him upon return from any other place that has reported my stay away from my principle residence ? (Example; Will a Line/whatsapp message be enough proof?) Thanks in advance for any help with this issue ~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rumak Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 On 6/13/2019 at 10:45 AM, ubonjoe said: You could do the report yourself. You would need a copy of your rental agreement. You would also need signed copies of his blue house book for the condo and a copy of his passport photo page. A copy of his Chanote may also be needed. He could possibley register to do online reporting. IF a thai owner than copy of blue book (signed) and copy of their thai ID.(signed) yes, here owner is farang so passport copy (signed). All the other maybe this and maybe that are why there are always 20 pages on every tm30 question. ALSO, most imm offices DO NOT require you to notify or "update" your tm30 unless you have left the country and are returning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rumak Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 (edited) 36 minutes ago, Ugots2Believe said: Anyone have any clue or advice in the case that a condo unit owner (landlord) will not/does not comply with his TM 30 requirement to report to Immigration. He is also unwilling to assist in any way to allow me to report myself. He seems to feel that this entire procedure is without consequence to him or me in spite of several attempted explanations. What will suffice as evidence that I have notified him upon return from any other place that has reported my stay away from my principle residence ? (Example; Will a Line/whatsapp message be enough proof?) Thanks in advance for any help with this issue ~ This has also been covered many times. THE TENANT can not force the owner to report. The immig. office will FINE you. As a landlord we insist the tenant come with us to do the first report. If i was going to be a renter I would do the same thing . If owner is not present (agent handles the lease) then I would not sign unless the agent gave me the signed copies of owners blue book and ID. and written explanation for the immigration office. STILL....always possible that they (IO) would insist on a power of attorney (POA) If you are already renting and owner will not help, you can pay fines or leave. As far as returning from "some other place"....usually in country no need to report. In CM many many tenants just go to immig to update when returning from overseas. 5 Minute process and out you go. No need for owner present or any forms/ids NOTE: this is regards to returning to the same address as the current tm30 Edited June 19, 2019 by rumak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rumak Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 On 6/14/2019 at 2:19 PM, Tanoshi said: n know way am I suggesting the foreigner is solely responsible. Depending greatly on the situation and circumstances it should be established when taking up residence in a private accommodation who will undertake the responsibility. your post is ok but makes it all sound complicated. If one wants to be SURE then go to the immig with owner the day you are going to move in. Meet him/her there , do the tm30, hand over money. If they say they can do it online then watch them do it and take photo of receipt. Otherwise....TRUST THEM and take your chances Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ugots2Believe Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 regrettably, I failed to say that the landlord is unwilling to provide any assistance to allow self reporting (owners blue book or other docs) Further, I know of cases where the farang tenant has indeed been fined although he only stayed at a hotel within country which was apparently reported to Immigration ( this is in regards to Bangkok Immigration if that matters ) But thank you nevertheless for your input and help Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rumak Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 49 minutes ago, Ugots2Believe said: Anyone have any clue or advice in the case that a condo unit owner (landlord) will not/does not comply with his TM 30 requirement to report to Immigration. He is also unwilling to assist in any way to allow me to report myself. He seems to feel that this entire procedure is without consequence to him or me in spite of several attempted explanations. What will suffice as evidence that I have notified him upon return from any other place that has reported my stay away from my principle residence ? (Example; Will a Line/whatsapp message be enough proof?) Thanks in advance for any help with this issue ~ Do you have a TM 30 receipt already for where you are staying ? if yes, probably no need to report short times away within country. If out of country and returning then you can go update yourself. IF NO ORIGINAL TM30 FOR ADDRESS YOU ARE fined WHEN CAUGHT OUT ( visa extensions or whatever) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanoshi Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 3 minutes ago, rumak said: If one wants to be SURE then go to the immig with owner the day you are going to move in. Meet him/her there , do the tm30, hand over money. Not always possible for owners who live in far of Provinces or live abroad! Some landlords won't even supply signed copies of their TB and ID card. The foreigner should ensure receipt of signed copies of the owners/landlords documentation before signing any lease, as you correctly suggested. He then has the required documents to submit a TM30 as the tenant/possessor, without the owner/landlords presence. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rumak Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 1 minute ago, Ugots2Believe said: regrettably, I failed to say that the landlord is unwilling to provide any assistance to allow self reporting (owners blue book or other docs) Further, I know of cases where the farang tenant has indeed been fined although he only stayed at a hotel within country which was apparently reported to Immigration ( this is in regards to Bangkok Immigration if that matters ) But thank you nevertheless for your input and help any immig that wants new report for every side trip is really being a pain in.................. Just want the money ! Unfortunately, some farangs get so irate and abusive that those in power just do not care what farangs think. that is the advantage of POWER Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rumak Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 1 minute ago, Tanoshi said: Not always possible for owners who live in far of Provinces or live abroad! Some landlords won't even supply signed copies of their TB and ID card. The foreigner should ensure receipt of signed copies of the owners/landlords documentation before signing any lease, as you correctly suggested. He then has the required documents to submit a TM30 as the tenant/possessor, without the owner/landlords presence. If no one would rent from the landlords that don't provide the copies.....I am pretty sure the owners would change their ways ???? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ugots2Believe Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 agree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanoshi Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Ugots2Believe said: regrettably, I failed to say that the landlord is unwilling to provide any assistance to allow self reporting (owners blue book or other docs) Further, I know of cases where the farang tenant has indeed been fined although he only stayed at a hotel within country which was apparently reported to Immigration ( this is in regards to Bangkok Immigration if that matters ) But thank you nevertheless for your input and help Then you have a bad landlord. My advice go to Immigration and advise them of the situation. After Immigration have spoken to him, I'm sure you'll find him more compliant. Edited June 19, 2019 by Tanoshi 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ugots2Believe Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 1 minute ago, Tanoshi said: Then you have a bad landlord. My advise go to Immigration and advise them of the situation. After Immigration have spoken to him, I'm sure you'll find him more compliant. Yes, seems the only option, unfortunately Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanoshi Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 1 minute ago, Ugots2Believe said: Yes, seems the only option, unfortunately Do you have a lease with the landlords details. Immigration may accept that as proof of address. Don't wait until you need to report or obtain an extension, go to Immigration with your problem now. I've witnessed first hand what Immigration can do in these situations. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ugots2Believe Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 (edited) 'Thanks for that advice. To further complicate my issue ( bearing in mind that when I signed my lease, the TM30 was not being generally enforced ) I do have the lease, but the only 'details of the owner that I have is his telephone number Line ID and bank account to which I send my rent payments. Again, the landlord is disinclined to provide any other 'details' or documentation and I hate to create problems by having to 'blow the whistle' on him (even thought he seems to be forcing me into it) Again, I have tried to explain and furnish all relevant info and websites in Thai language. I also worry about requesting 'details' from condo management and possible repercussions. Re: 26 minutes ago, Tanoshi said: Do you have a lease with the landlords details. Immigration may accept that as proof of address. Don't wait until you need to report or obtain an extension, go to Immigration with your problem now. I've witnessed first hand what Immigration can do in these situations. Edited June 19, 2019 by Ugots2Believe correct spelling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanoshi Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 9 minutes ago, Ugots2Believe said: Thanks for that advice. To further complicate my issue ( bearing in mind that when I signed my lease, the TM30 was not being generally enforced ) I do have the lease, but the only 'details of the owner that I have is his telephone number Line ID and bank account to witch I send my rent payments. Again, the landlord is disinclined to provide any other 'details' or documentation and I hate to create problems by having to 'blow the whistle' on him (even thought he seems to be forcing me into it) Again, I have tried to explain and furnish all relevant info and websites in Thai language. I also worry about requesting 'details' from condo management and possible repercussions. Re: You have no options left. Now CW enforce TM30 filing at some point your going to be refused a service for non compliance and probably fined. You have the landlords name and contact number. It is essentially his responsibility and he should be grateful that you will take the responsibility provided he supplies the required documents. Bite the bullet and report your problem and issue now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ugots2Believe Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 Thank you again 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mercman24 Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 all this about going to immi with owner, many owners dont even live in Thailand, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mercman24 Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 i imagined my landlord filled in some type of form two and half years ago as i waited in a cafe while he went there, now i am off to HUA HIN for 3 days, so i suppose i will just do the TM 30, by myself (think he is back in the UK (what a bloody joke all this is) who are they trying to catch ?? as i have said before anyone up to no good would not be staying in a hotel now would they, it would be a safe house Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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