Tm 30

[AAArdvark]

5 hours ago, elviajero said:

What if the foreigner is the owner?

 

Some offices consider a foreign tenant to be the “possessor” of the property, therefore, equally responsible with the owner to ensure a report is made!

In the latest online TM-30 registration form they ask if you are Thai or a foreigner and later they ask if you are the owner or the house-master.

[Toany]

2 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

And I said you only need file a tm30 prior to dealing with imm. eg doing an extension or report or needing a certificate of residence etc.

I specifically excluded people having extensions based on marriage as imm tend to play funny buggers with those folk. So I stick with my comment. The chance of the boogy man doing a random visit to your condo to check on tm30 is Buckley's to none.

Urbano Absolute and The River condos have been visited by Immigration.  At the River, they stopped foreigners as they entered and inquired about their status

[ThomasThBKK]

The web page to which you linked got a couple of things wrong.

And that is?

It's a lawyers newsletter and just the translation of what CW said with some comments.

If you thing the part about responsibility is wrong then no, many lawyers and also the TAT and Thai Elite where i enquired interpreted it the same way.

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[BertM]

Just spoke to my Visa agency attorney in BK since I moved to a new unit in the same building this month. He told me to ask the Leasing office if they filed the TM30 for my new unit or if they were going to. If not, he would take care of it. I am not going to file it myself (my choice). I also asked him about reporting when returning from out-of-country trips or in-country trips and he said I did not have to report to anyone upon my return since my permanent address did not change. I was hoping he would say that. I cannot imagine having to report to my Leasing office or to Immigration like some convict having to report to their probation officer every time I traveled. We already report every 90 days either by doing a 90-day report or with the TM6 when returning from overseas. I will see how things go this year since the new regulations went into effect in March. Good luck to all.

[ThomasThBKK]

Just spoke to my Visa agency attorney in BK since I moved to a new unit in the same building this month. He told me to ask the Leasing office if they filed the TM30 for my new unit or if they were going to. If not, he would take care of it. I am not going to file it myself (my choice). I also asked him about reporting when returning from out-of-country trips or in-country trips and he said I did not have to report to anyone upon my return since my permanent address did not change. I was hoping he would say that. I cannot imagine having to report to my Leasing office or to Immigration like some convict having to report to their probation officer every time I traveled. We already report every 90 days either by doing a 90-day report or with the TM6 when returning from overseas. I will see how things go this year since the new regulations went into effect in March. Good luck to all.

He's wrong.

Especially on the out of country trips.

Residency changes are unrelated to tm30 anyway, tm28 is for your residental address change.

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[BertM]

1 minute ago, ThomasThBKK said:

He's wrong.

Especially on the out of country trips.

Residency changes are unrelated to tm30 anyway, tm28 is for your residental address change.

Sent from my LYA-L29 using Tapatalk
 

We will see... His agency is one of the largest in Bangkok, so I trust him more than some stranger on the internet... Back to enjoying my retirement... logging off..

Edited June 17, 2019 by BertM

[ThomasThBKK]

Instead of trusting anyone you should just call CW and ask them yourself.

 

 

Good luck on your journey. Hope your trust in random Visa agents doesn't bring you into too much trouble.

[BertM]

9 minutes ago, ThomasThBKK said:

Instead of trusting anyone you should just call CW and ask them yourself.

Good luck on your journey. Hope your trust in random Visa agents doesn't bring you into too much trouble.

He will take care of the TM28 when he does my 90-day reporting next week. And, he's not random. I used him last year. He was only trying to make sure they did the TM30, if not he would take care of. And, I do trust him that I don't have to report to anyone every time I spend a night away from my residence. Like I said, we will see what happens this year. Anyway, it would be cheaper to pay the 800b than make 6 trips to CW to report in or pay agency to do, or fight with the Leasing company to do and make sure they did. Good luck to you too.

Edited June 17, 2019 by BertM

[ThomasThBKK]

https://www.mazars.co.th/Home/Doing-Business-in-Thailand/Legal/Notification-of-Place-of-Residence-Form-TM30

 

Mazars is one of the big accounting groups and tax auditors worldwide: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mazars

 

Quote

Please note that if foreigners staying in Thailand need to contact the immigration office in regard to giving 90 days’ notice or extend their visa, the immigration authorities must have received notification of their residence through Form TM30. If foreigners change their address, leave Thailand and then re-enter, it is necessary for the immigration authorities to have received updated information through Form TM30. Therefore, foreigners should check if their landlord filed Form TM30 before contacting the immigration office.

 

There's no cost associated with you doing this all by yourself, so i don't get why you would pay an agent. The only cost you have is 20 BAHT stamps for the postal service.

Just send your rental contract copy, tm6, passport page, visa stamp and fill out the tm30 form. include a return envelope and it's done. 

 

CW explicitly said they accept the rental contracts and that no housebook and id of owner is needed and have a large printout about that in their office.

 

Edited June 17, 2019 by ThomasThBKK

[55Jay]

11 minutes ago, BertM said:

He will take care of the TM28 when he does my 90-day reporting next week. And, he's not random. I used him last year. He was only trying to make sure they did the TM30, if not he would take care of. And, I do trust him that I don't have to report to anyone every time I spend a night away from residence. Like I said, we will see what happens next year. Anyway, it would be cheaper to pay the 800b than make a 6 trips to CW to report in or pay agency to do, or fight with the Leasing company to do and follow up to make sure they did it. Good luck to you too.

FWIW, when I filed my extension (retirement) this year, March 2019, I got pulled up for not having reported my return from a trip abroad the year before - February 2018.  Also had the wife complete a TM30 to report she had a foreigner (me) staying at her house.

Edited June 17, 2019 by 55Jay
spelling error

[khunPer]

On 6/16/2019 at 6:59 AM, ubonjoe said:

The 24 hours is to do the report after a person arrives at the residence not the length of stay.

If using a hotel doing the report as a example just checking in requires the report so I would say the intent to stay overnight would require the report to be done.

Of course if staying at a private residence immigration would not know about it or possibley even be able to prove it.

Didn't we not so long ago see a high ranking official state in the news, that if a foreigner had already reported a permanent address in Thailand, i.e. the TM30, temporary shorter private visits in another location, for example family visit, the foreigner did not need to be reported...????

[Tuvoc]

I thought I read somewhere that the TM-30 could be done at a police station instead of the immigration office ? Or is that the 90-day report.

[Toany]

I thought I read somewhere that the TM-30 could be done at a police station instead of the immigration office ? Or is that the 90-day report.

You can only report at the police station if there is not an immigration office in the Province, I believe.

In Thailand goal posts have wheels

[Tuvoc]

Ah yes:

 

" If there is no immigration office in the province or locality of the respective house or hotel, the notification is made to the local police station. In Bangkok the notification is made to the Immigration Bureau"

 

That isn't totally clear however. For example there are at least two immigration offices in Chiang Rai province. But if they are a very long distance from where you are staying and there is a Police Station close by, then I assume the Police Station is OK as there is no immigration office in your "locality"

Edited June 17, 2019 by Tuvoc

[natway09]

"Curtain Hotels"    2 hours more than enough 555

[Maestro]

2 hours ago, AAArdvark said:

In the latest online TM-30 registration form they ask if you are Thai or a foreigner and later they ask if you are the owner or the house-master.

Interesting. Could you post a copy of the new TM.30 form that asks if you are Thai or a foreigner, or post a link to it? This would be very useful for people who need to make the TM.30 notification.

[ubonjoe]

5 minutes ago, Maestro said:

Interesting. Could you post a copy of the new TM.30 form that asks if you are Thai or a foreigner, or post a link to it? This would be very useful for people who need to make the TM.30 notification.

He is writing about registering for online TM30 reporting.

https://extranet.immigration.go.th/fn24online/FilterNoLogonServlet?nodeId=24&programId=FNHOTELREG

[AlbionBob]

Despite all the threads on TM30 recently, I am still slightly confused as to the requirements.  My circumstances are:

 

Married to Thai lady, jointly own condo in Pattaya.  Come to Thailand twice a year.  Firstly for four months during England's winter, then for four weeks during the summer to see that condo OK and for wife to see family.   For the four month trip, I apply for a Non-O single visa for three months, then we take a trip out of Thailand for a few days, returning for upto four weeks prior to returning to UK in the spring.

 

OK, I know I have to submit TM30 on arrival for the four month trip, but after going out of country and returning to get a Visa Exempt, do I have to submit a TM30 again for the visa exempt period ?   Again, when I come back for the visa exempt in the summer, do I have to do one then as well, if returning to my own condo ?

 

Thank you for your response, Ubonjoe (if you're still on here ) !

[ubonjoe]

10 minutes ago, AlbionBob said:

OK, I know I have to submit TM30 on arrival for the four month trip, but after going out of country and returning to get a Visa Exempt, do I have to submit a TM30 again for the visa exempt period ?   Again, when I come back for the visa exempt in the summer, do I have to do one then as well, if returning to my own condo ?

According to most report for Jomtien immigration you would need to do a report but unless needed to do something at immigration you could skip doing the report.

Instead of going out for the visa exempt entry you could a apply for a 60 day extension to visit your wife. Your wife would have to be with you when your apply. Copies of your marriage certificate, wife's house book registry and ID card would be needed. 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

12 hours ago, BertM said:

Yes. I read the rules and they state it is the owner/leasor's sole responsibility to file the TM30 and not the foreigner.

 

No... the actual language doesn't say "not the foreigner". It uses several different terms of those who have to comply, including owner, housemaster, possessor....  And apparently, if the owner/landlord doesn't make the filing, tenants are roped in under the categories of housemaster or possessor.

 

You're heading toward an Immigration hassle and a probable fine if you think you can just lay the TM30 compliance off on your landlord, and expect that as a tenant you're not going to be held responsible.

 

Edited June 17, 2019 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Maestro]

5 hours ago, ThomasThBKK said:

 

 

 

2 hours ago, ThomasThBKK said:

And that is?

It's a lawyers newsletter and just the translation of what CW said with some comments...

 

Precisely. It is a lawyer's translation of what an immigration official allegedly (no link to source given) said with the addition of the lawyer's comment, but this is what the lawyer actually wrote in his newsletter:  

 

Quote

The Immigration Bureau at Chaengwattana announced new regulations regarding the Notification of Residence of Foreigners (TM30) that went into immediate effect on March 28, 2019.

 

It is quite common for posters on ThaiVisa to get the terminology mixed up sometimes and generally readers are able to figure out what a member means and reply accordingly, but in my book it is unacceptable for a lawyer to use the wrong terminology. So far, I have seen no new regulations issued under the authority of Section 38 of the Immigration Act that went into effect on March 28, 2019 and I am confident that my assumption that no such new regulations exist is correct. Whatever an immigration official may have said recently about an old regulation does not make this a new regulation.

 

 

 

 

Quote

 

 

 

2

Quote

If you thing the part about responsibility is wrong then no, many lawyers and also the TAT and Thai Elite where i enquired interpreted it the same way. 

 

This is the interpretation given by Dej-Udom & Associates in their newsletter:

 

Quote

For the Notification of Residence of Foreigners (TM30), the owner of the house, the lessor, or the owner of the hotel or residence is responsible for notifying the Immigration Office in the concerned area within 24 hours from the time of the foreigner’s arrival.

 

However, further down on that web page, the correct text from Section 38 of the English translation of the Immigration Act used by the Immigration Bureau is quoted:

 

Quote

The housemaster, the owner or the possessor of the residence, or the hotel manager where the alien, receiving permission to stay temporary in the Kingdom has stayed, must notify the competent official of the Immigration Office located in the same area...

 

The English term "house – master" used in section 38 is defined in section 4 of the Immigration Act. These are the only two sections in the Act where this term is used. 
 

 

 

 

Quote

 

 

 

 

 

 

5

Quote

 

Section 4

...“ House Master ” means any persons who is the chief possessor of a house , whether in the capacity of
owner, tenant or in any other capacity whatsoever , in accordance with the law on people act.

 

 

Therefore, for a rented residence the terms used in Section 38 mean the following:

House Master = tenant

Possessor= tenant

Owner = owner

 

Regarding the interpretations you received from "many lawyers and also the TAT and Thai Elite" where you enquired, I doubt very much that immigration takes these into consideration. The fact is that a number of ThaiVisa members have reported that immigration fined them in their capacity of tenant for the failure to submit the TM.30 notification or for submitting it later than within the legally prescribed limit and I have no reason to doubt the veracity of these reports.

[Maestro]

2 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

He is writing about registering for online TM30 reporting.

https://extranet.immigration.go.th/fn24online/FilterNoLogonServlet?nodeId=24&programId=FNHOTELREG

Thank you. (I have to stop speed-reading, it seems)

[AlbionBob]

1 hour ago, ubonjoe said:

According to most report for Jomtien immigration you would need to do a report but unless needed to do something at immigration you could skip doing the report.

Instead of going out for the visa exempt entry you could a apply for a 60 day extension to visit your wife. Your wife would have to be with you when your apply. Copies of your marriage certificate, wife's house book registry and ID card would be needed. 

Umm, that's a thought - will give that a go next year !  Thanks !

[phka]

On 6/16/2019 at 2:10 PM, elviajero said:

Anywhere you stay overnight someone is responsible to report that stay within 24 hours of your arrival.

 

If the forigner arrives at midnight and stays for 4 hours

Is that considered overnight

Or 3 hours or 5 or 6 hours

How about if the forigner stays for 3 hours goes out for an hour  and returns for another 3 hours 

[Almer]

Good day!!  I am fast becoming a senile old fool so help is needed please.

1.  Are we saying that every time i sleep away from my registered abode i have to re- report the normal living address whether international travel or just a jolly down south for a few days?

2. I am on my third Retirement Visa and the anniversary is the 28th December 800k route, what requirements can i expect this December being the new rules didn't take effect until mid jan this year.

As i say getting old in the teeth (false) to understand sometimes

Ubonjoe can you help

please you always give good advice not like some on here who seem to have "A" levels in sarcasm 

 

thanks in anticipation

[ubonjoe]

5 minutes ago, Almer said:

1.  Are we saying that every time i sleep away from my registered abode i have to re- report the normal living address whether international travel or just a jolly down south for a few days?

2. I am on my third Retirement Visa and the anniversary is the 28th December 800k route, what requirements can i expect this December being the new rules didn't take effect until mid jan this year.

1. That depends upon what you local immigration offices. Many offices only want a TM30 report if you move to another residence.

2. That depends upon which financial proof you use to apply for the extension.

If using the 65k baht income option there would be no change if you can still get proof of income from your embassy. If not you have to show transfers of 65k baht going into a Thai bank every month (new requirements effective in December).

The new rules for the 800k baht in the bank option went into effect on March 1st. You have to keep 800k baht in the bank for 3 months after your apply for your extension and then after those 3 months 400k baht until you top up your account to 800k baht for the next application.

 

[khunPer]

3 hours ago, AlbionBob said:

...going out of country and returning to get a Visa Exempt, do I have to submit a TM30 again for the visa exempt period ?

To my knowledge, in general you need to register, or re-register, if you have been travelling abroad.

 

Best is to ask your local immigration office, as the individual offices might have slightly different rules.

[phka]

18 hours ago, khunPer said:

To my knowledge, in general you need to register, or re-register, if you have been travelling abroad.

 

Best is to ask your local immigration office, as the individual offices might have slightly different rules.

That you can guarantee