Taking aim at Johnson, British PM hopefuls make Brexit case

[Chomper Higgot]

13 minutes ago, vogie said:

But the Brexit Party are beating the Tories in every poll, so the point may not be that valid.

 

 

I’ve always argued that Brexit was a fight for the survival of the Tory party, a small group of rabid Anti-EU zealots ripping the party apart.

 

Tory infighting infecting the nation.

 

[Chomper Higgot]

17 minutes ago, malagateddy said:

 

 

Good..decent..etc..lets face facts here..the vast majority of politicians from lowly town councillors to the top of the tree in the UK are not exactly " angels ".
Professional liars most of them imo..including scottish ones!!

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So who are you going to represent you?

 

 

[vogie]

2 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I’ve always argued that Brexit was a fight for the survival of the Tory party, a small group of rabid Anti-EU zealots ripping the party apart.

 

Tory infighting infecting the nation.

 

The Tories and the Labour Parties Manifesto were based on delivering Brexit, this is what the voters voted for, so the only zealots are the pro EU MPs that have ripped the party apart.

[Chomper Higgot]

55 minutes ago, vogie said:

And in the same breath, probably the qualities you are seeking in a politician may not apply to any of them. 

IMO you are just finding fault with the man because he is the biggest threat a remainer could wish for.

Once again, it is difficult to argue what a habitual liar like Johnson stands for, other that is than what ever is best for Johnson.

 

I regard him the single most likely candidate to do a complete about face on whatever Brexit position he claims to have taken.

[malagateddy]

So who are you going to represent you?
 
 

Read your question please

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[sawadee1947]

2 hours ago, vogie said:

You may be correct about the Tories being toast, just proves my point though about how good the remainers are good at predictions, or is it wishfull thinking.

Brexit is not going to go away just because you want it to. If the Tories get weaker, the Brexit party will get stronger

Sorry, but this is BS. It's not about to get weaker or stronger but to solve the BREXIT problem. The Tories might present a PM, who is not backed by the people, but this is not any kind of solution. 

The duty of a good leader is to be ready for compromises and not just following his ego trip. 

[vogie]

2 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Once again, it is difficult to argue what a habitual liar like Johnson stands for, other that is than what ever is best for Johnson.

 

I regard him the single most likely candidate to do a complete about face on whatever Brexit position he claims to have taken.

You are looking at candidates from a remainer perspective. The survival of the Tory Party are on Boris shoulders, my personally choice would have been Dom Raab, he comes across as caring, principled and honest (if there is such a thing as an honest politician) but lacks the personality and charisma of jaunty Boris, give him a chance, I'm sure you'll get to like him, you all will.

[Chomper Higgot]

8 minutes ago, malagateddy said:

Read your question please

Sent from my SM-G7102 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

So who are you going to get to represent you?

 

 

[Chomper Higgot]

3 minutes ago, vogie said:

You are looking at candidates from a remainer perspective. The survival of the Tory Party are on Boris shoulders, my personally choice would have been Dom Raab, he comes across as caring, principled and honest (if there is such a thing as an honest politician) but lacks the personality and charisma of jaunty Boris, give him a chance, I'm sure you'll get to like him, you all will.

You assume delivering Brexit will save the Tory party.

 

There is zero evidence to support that it will.

[Baerboxer]

4 hours ago, jesimps said:

I think the only thing you'll hear from Brexiteers on here is the desire for parliament to do the democratic thing and carry out the wishes of the people ie the ones who won the referendum. You see, that's why democracy was installed in most countries in the world in the first place. You'll never get all the people to agree all the time, therefore a system called democracy was instituted, where everyone had a vote and whoever got the most votes was the winner. Of course, for this system to work, the losers must accept that they lost, which has been the case until recent times. Now, here and in the US, the remainers and the left no longer seem to want to accept this. This is a very dangerous situation because democracy only works providing the losing sides are willing to concede defeat. When they don't, like at present, it could lead to a complete breakdown of democracy. One thing I think is certain, if Brexit doesn't happen, I for one and I'm sure many others will lose complete faith in the British system of voting. A system, which until recently, has been a template for the rest of the world.

 

Do you understand the difference between a representative democracy, which is what Britain has, and a complete democracy, which Switzerland uses? 

 

Do you understand why Britain has a representative democracy, why parliament is sovereign not the people; why referendums can only be advisory with no legal consequence; and why parliament is supposed to consider the views of all in making decisions that are best for everyone?

 

From your post it seems not. PS - I wouldn't use Boris, Farage, May, or any of her past and present cabinet as references!

[vogie]

1 minute ago, Chomper Higgot said:

You assume delivering Brexit will save the Tory party.

 

There is zero evidence to support that it will.

I am not saying that, I am saying it is the only chance the Tories have, I think if they fail to deliver Brexit they may never see the light of day again.

[evadgib]

38 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

Cowards always have excuses...

A flag of convenience that frankly isn't working...

[Baerboxer]

6 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

You assume delivering Brexit will save the Tory party.

 

There is zero evidence to support that it will.

 

Regardless of what happens with Brexit, and all the evidence suggests whoever the next PM is, it will still be a complete mess, the Tory goose is well and truly cooked.

 

People aren't gonna forget their abysmal handling of the referendum and it's result. They created their own problem and can't get out of it. Only way is down - probably down the plughole!

 

[tebee]

12 minutes ago, vogie said:

You are looking at candidates from a remainer perspective. The survival of the Tory Party are on Boris shoulders, my personally choice would have been Dom Raab, he comes across as caring, principled and honest (if there is such a thing as an honest politician) but lacks the personality and charisma of jaunty Boris, give him a chance, I'm sure you'll get to like him, you all will.

This is what boris's former employer thinks of him

 

[Baerboxer]

28 minutes ago, vogie said:

The Tories and the Labour Parties Manifesto were based on delivering Brexit, this is what the voters voted for, so the only zealots are the pro EU MPs that have ripped the party apart.

 

That was because the snap election called by the idiot May was close to the referendum result. The Tories dare not do anything other than say they would deliver Brexit whilst Labor under anti EU and UK commie Corbyn tried to gloss over the deep divides withing their party and keep their Nothern Brexiteer voter base happy. 

 

Sadly just another example of political parties saying anything in their manifestos to gain votes.

 

 

[sotsira]

1 hour ago, evadgib said:

Whether you like him or not he has the ability to make audiences laugh & burst into rapturous applause in the most unlikely of circumstances even when he is being serious; It's called eccentricity and is wonderfully BRITISH...

The only other people with this unique gift are/were the likes of Tommy Cooper, The Big Yin & Prince Harry.

I like Boris, he certainly makes me laugh, unfortunately that is not

my interpretation of what qualifies to become the PM.

 

Especially when the country needs a serious negotiator to step

up and deliver, he doesn't have the qualities.

 

He also has been very duplicitous over Brexit to say whether

he can be trusted to his word. When he was London Mayor 

he was pro European then he decided to go up against Cameron 

and became a Brexitier.

I can see him failing miserably just as he did as Foreign sec. 

[Baerboxer]

9 minutes ago, tebee said:

This is what boris's former employer thinks of him

 

 

Max Hastings - highly respected and believable.

 

Boris Johnson - proven habitual liar; person of low morals; clever but lacks the ability to focus and noted as being lazy. But from a very wealthy family who made sure he went through Eton and Oxford. 

 

And the Brexiters and Tories want to elect Boris PM!

[vogie]

1 minute ago, Baerboxer said:

 

That was because the snap election called by the idiot May was close to the referendum result. The Tories dare not do anything other than say they would deliver Brexit whilst Labor under anti EU and UK commie Corbyn tried to gloss over the deep divides withing their party and keep their Nothern Brexiteer voter base happy. 

 

Sadly just another example of political parties saying anything in their manifestos to gain votes.

 

 

But remainers keep complaining that the Brexit Party have nothing in their manifesto, seems to me whether you have or havn't, they are a worthless piece of paper.

[Chomper Higgot]

10 minutes ago, vogie said:

I am not saying that, I am saying it is the only chance the Tories have, I think if they fail to deliver Brexit they may never see the light of day again.

If they deliver Brexit they might very well suffer the same fate.

 

The central message of Tory Party politics has for decades been ‘strong on the economy’.

Brexit is without question a serious threat to the health of the economy, no deal Brexit an utter disaster.

 

Doing what is best for the economy regardless of the consequences is what wins seats in Parliament for the Tory Party.

[Baerboxer]

6 minutes ago, sotsira said:

I like Boris, he certainly makes me laugh, unfortunately that is not

my interpretation of what qualifies to become the PM.

 

Especially when the country needs a serious negotiator to step

up and deliver, he doesn't have the qualities.

 

He also has been very duplicitous over Brexit to say whether

he can be trusted to his word. When he was London Mayor 

he was pro European then he decided to go up against Cameron 

and became a Brexitier.

I can see him failing miserably just as he did as Foreign sec. 

 

As the "harmless village eccentric fool" he's mildly amusing and likable.

 

As the PM of a country in crisis, facing it's biggest issues since WW11, it's a disaster in the making.

[billd766]

4 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Max Hastings - highly respected and believable.

 

Boris Johnson - proven habitual liar; person of low morals; clever but lacks the ability to focus and noted as being lazy. But from a very wealthy family who made sure he went through Eton and Oxford. 

 

And the Brexiters and Tories want to elect Boris PM!

Who says that the Brexiteers want Boris to be elected? The only people who want that are the Tory party themselves. Brexiteers and/or the general public will have NO say in who gets elected.

[Baerboxer]

3 minutes ago, vogie said:

But remainers keep complaining that the Brexit Party have nothing in their manifesto, seems to me whether you have or havn't, they are a worthless piece of paper.

 

They should mostly be judged as 'advertising material". Although a serious misrepresentation should be against the law.

 

They are 'wish lists" but do contain ideas and views that particular party has and will try and work to. 

 

The Brexit Party don't have a manifesto because the lazy boozing MD of that limited company hasn't got around to writing it! His vision is myopic and narrow at best so don't expect much of one!

[Baerboxer]

1 minute ago, billd766 said:

Who says that the Brexiteers want Boris to be elected? The only people who want that are the Tory party themselves. Brexiteers and/or the general public will have NO say in who gets elected.

 

In the context of choosing a new PM, the only people to get a choice are the Tory MP's and then when down to 2 candidates the Tory party membership - seen this quoted as 124k and 160k members.

 

It seems to be the Brexiter element in this small group of people who are keen on Boris. Says a lot about their judgment!

 

 

[blazes]

53 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I’ve always argued that Brexit was a fight for the survival of the Tory party, a small group of rabid Anti-EU zealots ripping the party apart.

 

Tory infighting infecting the nation.

 

 

17 million is a "small group"????????

 

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[freedomnow]

Looked so absurd with that empty space for Boris Churchill in the debate last night.

 

Does not communicate strength, like he was hiding from putting his foot in it...he will probably get in regardless as he is Teflon Man for whatever things he messes up on (hardly any focus on him about drug use vs Gove for the same substance I think)...oh dear.

 

Whole things has descended into 'The Theatre of the Absurd' since 2016.

[Chomper Higgot]

2 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

In the context of choosing a new PM, the only people to get a choice are the Tory MP's and then when down to 2 candidates the Tory party membership - seen this quoted as 124k and 160k members.

 

It seems to be the Brexiter element in this small group of people who are keen on Boris. Says a lot about their judgment!

 

 

Something Alexander Boris (man of the people) de Pfefl Johnson has previously expressed an opinion on:

 

https://metro.co.uk/2019/06/13/boris-johnson-blasted-leaders-becoming-pm-without-election-old-column-9945489/

[Chomper Higgot]

3 minutes ago, blazes said:

 

17 million is a "small group"????????

 

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Are these 17 million of yours members of the Tory party? 

 

 

[tebee]

3 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

In the context of choosing a new PM, the only people to get a choice are the Tory MP's and then when down to 2 candidates the Tory party membership - seen this quoted as 124k and 160k members.

 

It seems to be the Brexiter element in this small group of people who are keen on Boris. Says a lot about their judgment!

 

 

It seems to me that Boris is trying to use the same sort of "constructive ambiguity" that worked so well for Corbyn  - saying as little as possible, but leaving things open to interpretation by the listener.

 

It could very well work for him, the brexiters in the Tory party are stupid enough to think he will deliver their cherished no deal. My thought is he'll flip back to being a remainer if he gets power.

 

The problem is the tory membership mostly want no deal, but no deal will wreck the economy and destroy the tories reputation for being the party of business. This matters because most of the Tory sponsorship is from business.  

 

So the Tories are between a rock and a hard place, they either alienate the party membership or the people who provide their funding.

 

 

[bomber]

5 hours ago, sotsira said:

If Boris becomes PM I think he will end up becoming the shortest

reigning PM in history with the way he conducts himself, it's just

a matter of time. 

not a certainty he will even get the job,100000+ tory voters who decide not the MPs,makes little difference as he will be turkied before xmas

[bomber]

5 hours ago, vogie said:

I can understand remainers not liking Boris, afteral he is one of the PM contenders most likely to honour the democratic referendum and get us out of the EU. The entire Tory party is reliant on Boris to save them from extinction, maybe he is the only one to do it, who knows.

Putting another remainer in charge, like Hunt or Stewart will surely finish the Tories off completely.

or the next leader could revoke A50 and bag 16 million plus voters for the next GE