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BANGKOK 19 July 2019 02:29
Sunderland

TM30: Thai immigration act - section 77

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Right, the possessor is to be seen as the one that has the name on the contract. For us that is usually our own name, or a Thai wife or girlfriends name.

That gives you the simple choice of paying the fine yourself, or transfer the fine to your wife or girlfriend. (The second will probably be the same as paying yourself.)

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2 minutes ago, Matzzon said:

Right, the possessor is to be seen as the one that has the name on the contract. For us that is usually our own name, or a Thai wife or girlfriends name.

That gives you the simple choice of paying the fine yourself, or transfer the fine to your wife or girlfriend. (The second will probably be the same as paying yourself.)

That is fine and understood.

Following on from that, what is a foreigner supposed to do when the owner refuses to provide the documentation that immigration requires? Should the possessor (person leasing a property) then report the owner to the police if the immigration officials insist on having the required documentation such as I.D. card, papers showing ownership of the property, etc.? 

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2 minutes ago, Sunderland said:

That is fine and understood.

Following on from that, what is a foreigner supposed to do when the owner refuses to provide the documentation that immigration requires? Should the possessor (person leasing a property) then report the owner to the police if the immigration officials insist on having the required documentation such as I.D. card, papers showing ownership of the property, etc.? 

Personally I would do it myself by mail as possessor. You have a lease? 

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14 minutes ago, Sunderland said:

That is fine and understood.

Following on from that, what is a foreigner supposed to do when the owner refuses to provide the documentation that immigration requires? Should the possessor (person leasing a property) then report the owner to the police if the immigration officials insist on having the required documentation such as I.D. card, papers showing ownership of the property, etc.? 

Don't know if it's acceptable in all Immigration Offices but, as I understand it, the possessor (person leasing a property) can just supply a copy of the rental agreement if the owner is either unable or refuses to supply his/her documents then file the TM30 as the possessor themselves.

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Posted (edited)
35 minutes ago, Sunderland said:

That is fine and understood.

Following on from that, what is a foreigner supposed to do when the owner refuses to provide the documentation that immigration requires? Should the possessor (person leasing a property) then report the owner to the police if the immigration officials insist on having the required documentation such as I.D. card, papers showing ownership of the property, etc.? 

If you have a contract, there is no need for more than your passport and rental agreement. Here you are just making it more complicated than it really is.

If you provide rental agreement and your passport as well as explain why it is like it is. 99% of all Immigration Offices will accept your registration of address.

Edited by Matzzon
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1 hour ago, Sunderland said:

Following on from that, what is a foreigner supposed to do when the owner refuses to provide the documentation that immigration requires? Should the possessor (person leasing a property) then report the owner to the police if the immigration officials insist on having the required documentation such as I.D. card, papers showing ownership of the property, etc.? 

When signing the lease you should insist on getting signed copies of these documents, also for your own safety. Then you can take a copy of them when doing the TM30 (at least a copy of the signed copy was ok for them in Chiang Mai).

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From the opening post of this topic:

Quote

I see nothing in [sections 38 and 77] that states that foreigners must a fine at immigration. It definitely refers to the house-master, owner or the possessor of the residence, or the hotel manager.

 Neither do I see any mention of a foreigner having to be fined, but who is the house-master? See the definition in section 4 of the English translation of the Immigration Act used by the Immigration Bureau:

 

Quote

“ House Master ” means any persons who is the chief possessor of a house , whether in the capacity of
owner , tenant , or in any other capacity whatsoever , in accordance with the law on people act.

 

For a rented residence, this means:

House Master = tenant

Chief possessor = tenant

Owner = owner

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From the opening post of this topic:

Quote

Section 77: Whoever fails to comply with the provision of Section 38, shall be punished with a fine not exceeding 2,000 Baht. If said person is a hotel manager, he shall be punished with a fine from 2,000 Baht to 10,000 Baht.

 

Section 77 is for the guidance of the judge when a case goes to court.

 

The summary fines, as I call them for short, which immigration officials are allowed to issue are covered by section 84 of the English translation of the Immigration Act used by the Immigration Bureau:

 

Quote

Section 84 : In all offences under this Act, except the provisions of Section 62 Para.1 Section 63 , 64, 71
and 82 Para.2. The settlement Commission, consisting of the Police Department’s Director General or
Representative, the Public Prosecution Department’s Director General or Representative, and the
Immigration Division’s Commander or Representative, as the, members shall have the authority to assign
duty of settlement to the Inquiry Official or the competent official by fixing a settlement rule or any
conditions as the Settlement Commission my deem proper.
When the offender has paid the fine as stipulate, the case shall be deemed settled under the
Criminal Procedure Code.

 

The above translation may be a bit difficult to digest. I find this other translation I have on file easier to read:

 

Quote

 

Section 84. For all offences under this Act, except for offences under
Sections 62 paragraph one, 63, 64, 71, and 82 paragraph two, there shall be established a
Settlement Committee comprising of the Police Director-General or representative, the
Public Prosecutor Director-General or representative, the Commander of the Immigration
Division or representative, as members. The Settlement Committee shall have power to
compound the matters and to authorize the inquiry official or the competent official to
carry out settlement on its behalf. The Settlement Committee may prescribe criteria for
settlement or any conditions as deemed fit.

Upon payment of fine as compounded for settlement, it shall be deemed

that the case has been settled in accordance with the Criminal Procedure Code.

 

 

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6 hours ago, Sunderland said:

I see nothing in those 2 sections that states that foreigners must a fine at immigration. It definitely refers to the house-master, owner or the possessor of the residence, or the hotel manager.

The law, written 40 years ago, was clearly written so that a third party report the stay of a foreigner. But these days the foreigner is often the “owner” or “possessor” (tenant) of the property they stay at. And as such immigration sometimes accept the foreigner self reporting and fine them, as owner or possessor, if they don’t.

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17 hours ago, Sunderland said:

Following on from that, what is a foreigner supposed to do when the owner refuses to provide the documentation that immigration requires? Should the possessor (person leasing a property) then report the owner to the police if the immigration officials insist on having the required documentation such as I.D. card, papers showing ownership of the property, etc.?

I was told to move house.

 

17 hours ago, Matzzon said:

If you provide rental agreement and your passport as well as explain why it is like it is. 99% of all Immigration Offices will accept your registration of address.

I tried, but they wanted the owner to come to immigration in person.

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Posted (edited)
18 hours ago, Sunderland said:

That is fine and understood.

Following on from that, what is a foreigner supposed to do when the owner refuses to provide the documentation that immigration requires? Should the possessor (person leasing a property) then report the owner to the police if the immigration officials insist on having the required documentation such as I.D. card, papers showing ownership of the property, etc.? 

As the possessor, you can fill out and file the form yourself.  Easy. 

 

Who Needs to Be Registered?

 

Note, however, if you are on a long-stay visa and plan on extending (a retirement extension, for example), immigration require you to have submitted a TM30 within 24 hours, whether on your behalf by a landlord or yourself as a property owner. So do make sure it is done.

The TM30 is divided into two separate forms, and the second form allows the landlord to register multiple people. So if you are staying in a group at non-licensed accommodation, your landlord can report you all on the same form.

Some of you might wonder, should I still report myself if I have a yellow house book (tabien baan) or co-own the property I’ll be staying in?

The answer is yes.

Even if you own or co-own the house, you must complete the form within 24 hours of arriving at the property – be it online or at immigration.

If you are staying in a friend’s house, your friend still needs to submit the TM30 form. The same applies to any foreigner who is married to a Thai and carries a Thai visa.

In recent times, expatriates who have been living in Thailand for many years fallen foul of a fine for failing to re-register their home addresses when leaving and returning to their residence.

For instance, an expat who lives permanently in Thailand and travels to other places within the country needs to re-register once returning from travelling.

Your latest place of residence must be reported and logged in the immigration database, in accordance with Section 37 (2) of the Thailand Immigration Act of 1979.

Edited by habanero

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Posted (edited)
19 hours ago, Sunderland said:

I see nothing in those 2 sections that states that foreigners must a fine at immigration. It definitely refers to the house-master, owner or the possessor of the residence, or the hotel manager.

OR the ""POSSESSOR"" of the residence.  If you:

1) have a lease or rental agreement, or,

2) pay utility bills / paid a utility deposit at the residence - electric, water, cable TV, internet service, or,

3) receive mail or package deliveries, or,

4) have keys to locks, or,

5) have personal property there, or,

6) legally reside ( TM-47 and other TM's ) on the property / in the residence.

 

[   Section 38 : The house–master, the owner or the ... possessor... of the residence, ........etc....... ]

 

Are you not in "POSSESSION" of the property, therefore the "POSSESSOR" of the property.

 

I agree that the 'landlord' is responsible for a TM-30, BUT, YOU are responsible to make sure ALL YOUR paperwork is in order per the regulations.

Edited by edwardflory
information

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