thaibeachlovers Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 8 minutes ago, bristolboy said: I'm claiming that it's not a major sponsor if terrorism, as you claimed. I just about fell out of my chair in amazement at that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bristolboy Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 3 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said: I just about fell out of my chair in amazement at that. Given what you've demonstrated about your knowledge of such things, I'm not at all surprised. You might want to visit this page. As you can see, there are very few recent terrorist attackd attributed to Iran. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_and_state-sponsored_terrorism Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billd766 Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said: Perhaps because Iran was playing the west for patsies and had no intention of honouring the agreement. Oil prices up- the greenies will be lovin' that. If your oil prices have gone up, blame the government. I bet a lot of the price is tax. Well the EU, UK, IAEA don't seem to agree with you and they have guys on site 24/7. The price of oil has gone up because the USA has blacklisted any country that imports Iranian oil. Iran is getting antsy because Trump, Bolton and Pompeo are pushing for a war somewhere and Iran is a handy nation to blame. All 3 of them think that it will be a short, sharp effective war and the US troops will all be home for Christmas with on very minimal US casualties and little or no collateral damage to civilians in Iraq. How wrong they will be especially if the US puts boots on the ground in Iran. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simple1 Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said: Perhaps because Iran was playing the west for patsies and had no intention of honouring the agreement.<SNIP> It was repeatedly confirmed Iran was in full compliance with the agreement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayned Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 Trump started this whole mess to fulfill a 2016 campaign promise, pull out of the Iran deal, without any-understanding of what the consequences might be. Once he was elected, it was just a move to check the box for his campaign for reelection. He doesn't care about anything other than what he thinks makes him look good at that moment, a true psychopath! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spidermike007 Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 3 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said: No comparison with any of those. Vietnam was to save the world from communism in a very different world, Iraq was not necessary and caused by Bush the younger who should be in jail for it, Afghanistan was initially justified ( but they stayed too long ), Egypt??????????????, Libya down to Obama and Clinton, big disaster, Algeria??????????????????? Iran is a major sponsor of world terrorism, and a nuclear power in the making ruled by mullahs that hate the west, and want to destroy us, IMO. The sooner they are taken down, the safer I will feel. I doubt it will come to it anyway, as even the mullahs know they can't win. What has democracy got to do with it? Has any war ever been fought for democracy? And the Saudis are not a major sponsor of terror? They fund most of the world's Madrasas. Schools that teach hatred, intolerance, and terror 101. Why not them? In reality, they are enemy number one, of the Western world, with their extreme brand of Wahhabism, and their medieval ways. If it was not for their oil, nobody would pay them any heed, on any level. Save the world from communism? Really? After all these decades you are still buying into that one? How well did that work out? I agree about Iraq. The Taliban now control 76% of Afghanistan. And that is after 2,300 soldiers have given their lives, and 20,000 have given their limbs. How many of those kinds of sacrifices has Trump or Bolton made lately? Egypt, Libya and Algeria were all about democracy building. Afghanistan is someplace we should have left more than 10 years ago. Will lessons ever be learned? Not when you have guys like Blindfold Bolton advising world leaders. Alexander the Great fought a counter-insurgency in Afghanistan that lasted almost three years. And by the end of those years, he was drinking heavily and completely paranoid. One night, he got into a row with a guy named Cleitus the Black, a loyal friend. Cleitus accused him of certain things and Alexander threw a spear into his heart. As he watched his friend die, he lost his mind. Five years later, Alexander was dead. As the Afghans say: you might have the clocks, but we've got the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJRS1301 Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 59 minutes ago, simple1 said: It was repeatedly confirmed Iran was in full compliance with the agreement. Did that make any difference to USA about weapons of mass destruction? The world is still paying for that, cause another vacuum to be filled with groups such as ISIS, good one Trump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJRS1301 Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 Egypt, Libya and Algeria were all about democracy building. Afghanistan is someplace we should have left more than 10 years ago. Will lessons ever be learned? Not when you have guys like Blindfold Bolton advising world leaders. No, they were all about using arms to prop up that industry, killing for democracy, is like r>>ting for virginity Afghanistan should never have occurred. USA needs to look at its own ethics, and improve those before becoming the moral arbiters in other countries. More people that ever homeless, worst drug problems and other social inequities in USA, and benefits about to be cut USA makes great plans for war, but seems incapable of planning for peace since 1945 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morch Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 4 hours ago, spidermike007 said: Go ahead. Continue to make light of the inherent dangers. Most did that prior to the invasion of Iraq. Most said 6 months at the most. What lives? Hardly any civilians will be harmed, and few Americans. 4,000 plus American lives, and 600,000 lives in Iraq later. 15 years and counting, and how much spent? How many trillions? There is a huge gap between scaremongering, and reality, I am afraid. I'm making light of your hyped scaremongering, not of the price tags and consequences that come with war. The "end of "This end of America as we know it"? Get a grip. Sounds like that funny Iraqi spokesperson (or minister?). Yes, there is a huge gap between scaremongering and reality. Going on about the "end of America as we know it", before a single shot was fired, and disregarding the rather obvious power balance is the former. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morch Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 4 hours ago, wayned said: It's just waiting for another incident like the Gulf of Tonkin which led us into the war with Vietnam. I'm just waiting for yet another poster to toss in Tonkin, WMD, or whatnot - as if it answers anything and everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer90210 Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 What is the daily operating cost of the latest US war games ? Could the money not be used to increase the military veterans pensions, salaries of all the current government or law enforcement personnal or even improve the service at US Consulates aborad ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morch Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 8 minutes ago, observer90210 said: What is the daily operating cost of the latest US war games ? Could the money not be used to increase the military veterans pensions, salaries of all the current government or law enforcement personnal or even improve the service at US Consulates aborad ? Similar notions were raised by some of the Iranian protestors in recent outbreaks of public disorder - how government spending on military intervention abroad, or butting heads with the USA doesn't really do much for the ordinary people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayned Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 12 hours ago, Morch said: I'm just waiting for yet another poster to toss in Tonkin, WMD, or whatnot - as if it answers anything and everything. It answers absolutely nothing only that a small incident with Iran like the gulf of Tonkin can draw the US into another war like Vietnam and cost many lives and as Trump would say, "on both sides". The outcome was the passage by Congress of the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution,. The resolution served as Johnson's legal justification for deploying U.S. conventional forces and the commencement of open warfare against North Vietnam. It cost me 23 months of my life and the loss of many friends. Bolton is just itching for a reason to have a military conflict with Iran and I think that Pompeo supports him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morch Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 5 hours ago, wayned said: It answers absolutely nothing only that a small incident with Iran like the gulf of Tonkin can draw the US into another war like Vietnam and cost many lives and as Trump would say, "on both sides". The outcome was the passage by Congress of the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution,. The resolution served as Johnson's legal justification for deploying U.S. conventional forces and the commencement of open warfare against North Vietnam. It cost me 23 months of my life and the loss of many friends. Bolton is just itching for a reason to have a military conflict with Iran and I think that Pompeo supports him. Except Iran is no innocent bystander, and ruling out involvement in attacks solely based on USA historical anecdotes doesn't cut it. Posters seem willing enough to reference a whole lot of stuff regarding the USA - while either uninformed or ignoring such references with regard to Iran. I agree that Bolton is very much into a war. Pompeo? More of a politician, so if a "win" could be achieved otherwise, guess he'll take that. The key here is Trump - which I guess is less informed of consequences or relevant details than a President ought to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rimmer Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 An off topic troll post removed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spidermike007 Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 19 hours ago, observer90210 said: What is the daily operating cost of the latest US war games ? Could the money not be used to increase the military veterans pensions, salaries of all the current government or law enforcement personnal or even improve the service at US Consulates aborad ? Right now, the care given to veterans is atrocious. The wait times for certain kinds of treatment, is an abomination. Jon Stewart recently spoke out about this at a congressional hearing. Most of the congressmen did not even show enough respect to show up for the meeting, that is how indifferent they are. They talk a big game of patriotism, they talk about how important the fighting men and women are, and how they will be looked after. Once they return, all is forgotten. If you are not prepared to take care of your own, when they return from harms way, do not get involved in wars that you cannot afford. I say lock up every single congressman and woman. Same goes for the senate. They are all dishonest crooks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
watcharacters Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 21 hours ago, wayned said: Trump started this whole mess to fulfill a 2016 campaign promise, pull out of the Iran deal, without any-understanding of what the consequences might be. Once he was elected, it was just a move to check the box for his campaign for reelection. He doesn't care about anything other than what he thinks makes him look good at that moment, a true psychopath! He sure does keep people off balance what with his changing his mind at a moment's notice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayned Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 29 minutes ago, Morch said: That's little to do with my post, but guess you'll just go on and on about specifics on the Tonkin thing regardless. And you'll just go on and on telling me that You disagree with me . So let;s cut the BS right now and get on with our lives! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morch Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 3 hours ago, wayned said: And you'll just go on and on telling me that You disagree with me . So let;s cut the BS right now and get on with our lives! Alright, but I still like your posts on the cooking topic. And the dog avatar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayned Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 9 hours ago, Morch said: Alright, but I still like your posts on the cooking topic. And the dog avatar. My Avatar died 6 years ago. His sister is wallpaper on my desktop and hie father is wallpaper on my laptop, all gone. I now jsut have 7 Thai mutts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJRS1301 Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 I may be really dense, but I recall that Trump in one of his many rambling election promises, was to remove troops from the middle east? How does he keep that promise when he is committing more and has permanent bases in several Middle East countries? Was he unaware of the bases at the time of this "promise" or just another bit of posturing without research or knowledge? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metisdead Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 Off topic posts and replies about North Vietnam, Gulf of Tonkin have been removed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaibeachlovers Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 On 6/19/2019 at 7:31 PM, spidermike007 said: And the Saudis are not a major sponsor of terror? They fund most of the world's Madrasas. Schools that teach hatred, intolerance, and terror 101. Why not them? In reality, they are enemy number one, of the Western world, with their extreme brand of Wahhabism, and their medieval ways. If it was not for their oil, nobody would pay them any heed, on any level. Agreed, but they are not the subject of the thread. On 6/19/2019 at 7:31 PM, spidermike007 said: Save the world from communism? Really? After all these decades you are still buying into that one? How well did that work out? I agree about Iraq. The Taliban now control 76% of Afghanistan. And that is after 2,300 soldiers have given their lives, and 20,000 have given their limbs. How many of those kinds of sacrifices has Trump or Bolton made lately? That was the reason for the war, regardless of what you think decades later. No oil in Vietnam. Since when did politicians sacrifice in wars? If politicians had to lead the ground troops into action, how many wars would there be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simple1 Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said: That was the reason for the war, regardless of what you think decades later. No oil in Vietnam.<SNIP> http://oilgasvietnam.com/post/97/Industry-Facts.html BTW why did you post a sneering emotive against my comment Iran was in compliance with the nuclear agreement prior to trump's unilateral pull out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaibeachlovers Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 1 hour ago, simple1 said: http://oilgasvietnam.com/post/97/Industry-Facts.html BTW why did you post a sneering emotive against my comment Iran was in compliance with the nuclear agreement prior to trump's unilateral pull out? Not sneering, just boggled that anyone would believe that the mullahs aren't cheating in secret. There wasn't a better emoji, and it takes way too long to go to the emoji link for a more suitable one. Those mullahs, IMO, are not to be trusted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simple1 Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said: Not sneering, just boggled that anyone would believe that the mullahs aren't cheating in secret. There wasn't a better emoji, and it takes way too long to go to the emoji link for a more suitable one. Those mullahs, IMO, are not to be trusted. trump provided no proof prior to his unilateral pull out. US destructive behaviour with international agreements is more likely than not to lead to increased geopolitical tensions and the risk of armed conflict. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaibeachlovers Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 5 minutes ago, simple1 said: trump provided no proof prior to his unilateral pull out. US destructive behaviour with international agreements is more likely than not to lead to increased geopolitical tensions and the risk of armed conflict. IMO war with Iran is inevitable, whether now or years later. I'd rather now before they have nuclear weapons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
candide Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 9 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said: IMO war with Iran is inevitable, whether now or years later. I'd rather now before they have nuclear weapons. Why inevitable? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meand Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 American tax dollars hard at work: destabilize the countries you enter, cause more pain and suffering to the people of the country, enrage people so as to create more of a terrorism threat toward yourselves. And then when someone brings up universal healthcare, they ask "where will the money come from"? Hmmm, I wonder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meand Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 On 6/20/2019 at 10:58 AM, spidermike007 said: Right now, the care given to veterans is atrocious. The wait times for certain kinds of treatment, is an abomination. Jon Stewart recently spoke out about this at a congressional hearing. Most of the congressmen did not even show enough respect to show up for the meeting, that is how indifferent they are. They talk a big game of patriotism, they talk about how important the fighting men and women are, and how they will be looked after. Once they return, all is forgotten. If you are not prepared to take care of your own, when they return from harms way, do not get involved in wars that you cannot afford. I say lock up every single congressman and woman. Same goes for the senate. They are all dishonest crooks. Taking care of veterans is not profitable. Forcing regime change so corporations can exploit a country's oil reserves is profitable. That is capitalism. That is why I say capitalism only really works if the people have a head on their collective shoulders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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