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Thai road carnage: deaths top 7,000 this year

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35 minutes ago, MartinL said:

Let's pick that to pieces, shall we?

 

First, both UK and Russia are in Europe so you've included their 29,044 road deaths twice in the European figure. So Europe's deaths are really 55,545 which reduces total deaths for the 'farang' countries you identify to 128,310.

 

Looks VERY bad against Thailand's 22,000 doesn't it?

 

How about including population in there and calculate deaths per 100,000 population - an accepted way of quoting these stats. This is what we get:-

 

 

 

Pop'n.

Road

Deaths/

 

millions

Deaths

100,000

Australia

24

1,351

5.63

Canada

37

2,118

5.72

New Zealand

5

364

7.28

Russia

144

27,025

18.77

UK

66

2,019

3.06

USA

325

39,888

12.27

Europe

534

55,545

10.40

TOTAL

1,135

128,310

11.30

       
       

Thailand

69

22,000

31.88

 

Note that Europe's population excludes UK and Russia. 

 

Thailand has a 'deaths/100,000' figure that is 70% more than the worst of those, Russia, and nearly 10.5 times the best of them, UK.

 

But I get the impression you're averse to using the 'deaths/100,000' parameter because it doesn't suit your agenda.

 

Before you go on about the difference being due to motorcycles, let me tell you that in 1950, UK had a population of about 48 million and road deaths of 5012 (less than Thailand's casualties in the first half of 2019) = 10.4/100,000. Still only 33% of Thailand's figures today yet there was a far higher proportion of motorcycles on the roads in UK than today.

 

As it happens, I agree with you that motorcycles are the prime cause of Thailand's high road deaths. Whether it 60%, 80% I don't know but I've often seen 80% quoted. Having been a biker in UK for 38 years, including as an advanced riding trainer, and in Thailand for 10, I can honestly say that I've never seen so many absolutely stupid antics performed so frequently by so many motorcyclists as I've seen in Thailand and continue to see every time I go out on the roads. If motorcyclists didn't act so stupidly - and notice I'm saying it's MOTORCYCLISTS that are stupid, not Thais in general - then they wouldn't lose their lives in such staggering numbers.

 

Refs.:-

Road deaths; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-related_death_rate

 

Population; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_population_(United_Nations)

 

Historical UK road deaths; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reported_Road_Casualties_Great_Britain

 

Historical UK population; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demography_of_the_United_Kingdom

Everyone say here thai people die because ALL thai are stupid, no spacial, the school is bad, no IQ, no common sense. Like that.

Ok. 

 

So why all the very clever farang with the good school and spacial die? Still a lot. Still a “staggering number” right? What reason for that? Different reason? Do you know? How that happen?

 

UK is very small island. People stay home, don’t go out much, empty sois.

My friend told me. Because very cold there.

I don’t like death per 100,000 like you say. 

 

I think better to use death per kilometer. But I think that “doesn’t suit your agenda.”

 

Thankyou everyone care so much about us. But more than 100,000 you guys dead! Only 22,000 thai. Maybe worry about you first.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Yinn said:

So why all the very clever farang with the good school and spacial die? Still a lot. Still a “staggering number” right? What reason for that? Different reason? Do you know? How that happen?

 

UK is very small island. People stay home, don’t go out much, empty sois.

My friend told me. Because very cold there.

I don’t like death per 100,000 like you say. 

 

I think better to use death per kilometer. But I think that “doesn’t suit your agenda.”

 

Thankyou everyone care so much about us. But more than 100,000 you guys dead! Only 22,000 thai. Maybe worry about you first.

You've never been to UK so I'll forgive your ignorance on the matter of Britons going out. From my experience as part of a Thai family for 10 years, my impression is that Britons go for evenings out far more than Thais. Despite a night out being much more expensive, there are far more places to go, far more variety of places to go. Lousy weather and cold doesn't come into the equation much. But that's not really relevant to this discussion.

 

"Deaths/km". What's that? Deaths per vehicle km? Deaths per km. of roadway? What? Anyway, not easy figures to obtain - perhaps that's why you prefer that format since it can't reinforce the impression of 'deadly Thai roads'. 

 

How about this:-

Deaths/100,000 vehicles - UK 5.7, Thailand 295.8.

Deaths/1 billion vehicle.km - UK 3.4, Thailand no stats. but bound to be horrendous.

 

By almost any road safety metric, thailand comes out badly.

 

Since you compare Thai deaths to 'farang' deaths, I'll add yet more to it and compare Asians to 'farangs'. Let''s look at 6 Asian countries (as you've done for 'Farang' countries) and see how many road deaths occur there:-

 

 

Pop'n.

Road

Deaths/

 
 

millions

Deaths

100,000

 

China

1,434

261,367

18.2

 

Japan

127

5,224

4.1

All in Top 5 for global school rankings

Singapore

6

197

3.3

S. Korea

51

4,990

9.8

Taiwan

24

2,920

12.2

Thailand

69

22,491

32.6

 

TOTAL

1,711

297,189

17.4

 

 

297,189 Asians v. 128,310 'farangs'.

 

I'll throw your question back at you. Despite having some of the best educational achievements in the world, why do nearly 300,000 of 'you guys' (Asians) die on the roads each year?

 

References as previously.

 

 

 

Edited by MartinL
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5 hours ago, Yinn said:

If they take it off I think they angry about it right? I just want to help, not make them angry.

 

157,000 dead. I think you are correct joecoolfrog.

 

 


Canada                    2118
New Zealand            364
USA                         39888
UK                              2019
Australia.                   1,351
Europe.                     84,589
Russia                        27,025
                       Total.   157,354

Thailand 22,000

You are either extremely dense or being deliberately obtuse. Death figures are completely meaningless unless presented as a per capita percentage ( per 100,000 people ).

In addition Thailand , unlike the other countries you mention, only include those who die at the scene of the accident.

The many thousands ( Thai estimate ) who die on the way to and in hospital are ignored. This is simply a way to make the figures look better , the usual story , deny or ignore rather than address the problem.

Finally thank you for the juvenile notion of evading the facts by responding with ' but but Farang ' , it simply highlights your lack of a reasoned response.

At the end of the day its Thai people who are being slaughtered on a daily basis , your denial simply adds to the problem , you must be very proud !

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1 hour ago, joecoolfrog said:

 

At the end of the day its Thai people who are being slaughtered on a daily basis !

Thai, but more farang. Right or wrong?

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, MartinL said:

You've never been to UK so I'll forgive your ignorance on the matter of Britons going out. From my experience as part of a Thai family for 10 years, my impression is that Britons go for evenings out far more than Thais. Despite a night out being much more expensive, there are far more places to go, far more variety of places to go. Lousy weather and cold doesn't come into the equation much. But that's not really relevant to this discussion.

 

"Deaths/km". What's that? Deaths per vehicle km? Deaths per km. of roadway? What? Anyway, not easy figures to obtain - perhaps that's why you prefer that format since it can't reinforce the impression of 'deadly Thai roads'. 

 

How about this:-

Deaths/100,000 vehicles - UK 5.7, Thailand 295.8.

Deaths/1 billion vehicle.km - UK 3.4, Thailand no stats. but bound to be horrendous.

 

By almost any road safety metric, thailand comes out badly.

 

Since you compare Thai deaths to 'farang' deaths, I'll add yet more to it and compare Asians to 'farangs'. Let''s look at 6 Asian countries (as you've done for 'Farang' countries) and see how many road deaths occur there:-

 

 

Pop'n.

Road

Deaths/

 
 

millions

Deaths

100,000

 

China

1,434

261,367

18.2

 

Japan

127

5,224

4.1

All in Top 5 for global school rankings

Singapore

6

197

3.3

S. Korea

51

4,990

9.8

Taiwan

24

2,920

12.2

Thailand

69

22,491

32.6

 

TOTAL

1,711

297,189

17.4

 

 

297,189 Asians v. 128,310 'farangs'.

 

I'll throw your question back at you. Despite having some of the best educational achievements in the world, why do nearly 300,000 of 'you guys' (Asians) die on the roads each year?

 

References as previously.

 

 

 

We already agree Thai die because stupid, no spacial, low education.

 

But why so many farang?

 

Edited by Yinn

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32 minutes ago, Yinn said:

We already agree Thai die because stupid, no spacial, low education.

 

But why so many farang?

Genuine accidents can happen anywhere at any time. Every country has a proportion of drivers who don't care about laws, other people, themselves or 'common' courtesy. Unfortunately, my experience of driving in Thailand tells me that it seems to have a far higher proportion of those types than UK - the only 'farang' country I'm qualified to talk about - hence the higher death rate. No amount of awareness can absolutely eliminate accidents but lack of awareness can literally be a killer.

 

You might also like to consider that many 'farang' countries have weather conditions that Thais cannot imagine driving in. 

 

Now, can you answer my question? Why do so many more Asians - with  their excellent education systems in many cases - than 'farangs' die on the roads?

 

You're starting to sound like a broken record and nobody wants to listen to one of those.

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Posted (edited)

How many miles do UK citizens drive on average?

Per the UK Government’s Road Use Statistics 2016, the British drove an average of 6,488 miles in what appears to be 2013. This translates to an average of just under 18 miles a day, or about 49% of the average US daily mileage.

 

 

Per Transport Analysis, Swedes drove an average of 12,216 km in 2015, or 7,591 miles per year. This translates to an average of just under 21 miles a day, or about 57% of the average US daily mileage .

 

The fact is that we could immediately chop off 43-51% of our annual US road death toll simply by committing to drive at roughly half our current rates. This applies at the national, state, local, and personal level. The majority of the difference in death tolls cannot be explained primarily by driving rates, but driving rates remain one of the largest factors in affecting that difference.

 

We would have to know how many miles the average Thai drives, (not how much your aunt Lek drives but real statistics).  I looked but could not find it.  

 

https://www.thecarcrashdetective.com/americans-drive-more-dying/

 

Seems to me instead of driver education/personality change, the best and fastest approach to reducing driving deaths would be to provide more and safer mass transit.  

Edited by marcusarelus
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Posted (edited)
16 hours ago, MartinL said:

 

 

Now, can you answer my question? Why do so many more Asians - with  their excellent education systems in many cases - than 'farangs' die on the roads?

 

 

Ok.

i think many reasons for that.

some are

1 There are a lot more Chinese 1 billion plus than farang 750,000,000

2) And more Asians than that

3) European cars are safer, have more airbags and safety than Asian cars. Even the cars we make in Thailand like the Ford Ranger, have more safety for the export

4) the Hospital’s in some poor Asian countries don’t have the good equipment, ambulance, to safe the live

 

i think you have tarred with the same brush.

 

 

 

Edited by Yinn

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Yinn said:

Ok.

i think many reasons for that.

some are

1 There are a lot more Chinese 1 billion plus than farang 750,000,000

2) And more Asians than that

3) European cars are safer, have more airbags and safety than Asian cars. Even the cars we make in Thailand like the Ford Ranger, have more safety for the export

4) the Hospital’s in some poor Asian countries don’t have the good equipment, ambulance, to safe the live

 

i think you have tarred with the same brush.

 

 

 

Thank you. Now we're getting somewhere 🙂 !

 

1) There are a lot more Chinese 1 billion plus than farang 750,000,000

2) And more Asians than that

 

You're using the same argument to exonerate Asians as you used to bash 'farangs'. Saying there are more Chinese (and Asians in general) than 'farangs' so there are bound to be more Asian deaths on the roads is exactly the same as saying there are more 'farangs' than Thais so there are bound to be more 'farang' deaths on the roads.

 

Yet you've been pushing the question of "... but why so many 'farang' (die)?" for quite a while now in a Thai v. 'farang' urinating contest. You've just answered your own question - there are MANY, MANY more 'farangs' than Thais!!! Why couldn't you have realised that earlier and saved all these recent argumentative posts?

 

However, from my earlier post, for every 3 Britons that die on the roads, 32 Thais die yet the populations of the two countries are almost identical.

 

3) European cars are safer, have more airbags and safety than Asian cars. Even the cars we make in Thailand like the Ford Ranger, have more safety for the export.

 

If the Thai-made Ford Ranger (as your example) has better safety standards for export, that's purely a Thai government problem. They should be saying "If Country X wants this high safety standard, Thailand should have it too". But they don't say that, do they? Or if regulations are in place, they're not enforced by the crap police - crash helmets, driving licences, seat belts, speeding, idiotic antics when passing another vehicle, driving against traffic flow, number of people on a motorcycle and many, many more. Blame the "we don't care enough to enforce laws" Thai government for all that.

 

If Thailand is striving to join the ranks of 'developed' countries, including in terms of road safety, it can't do that with a government that doesn't give a toss.

 

I'll accept that European cars vehicles are safer, as you suggest, but that's not only new vehicles - there's also the matter of maintenance of older vehicles, or almost total lack of it in Thailand. There's a stringent and very comprehensive annual annual inspection for all cars and motorcycles over 3 years of age in UK (more frequent for some types of vehicle) - fail and your vehicle IS off the road until it's brought up to standard. Compare that to the Thai inspection for vehicles - cursory at best, a pass can be bought, a defective vehicle just drives out of the inspection shop. How many of the beat-up old wrecks that are seen every day on Thai roads aren't fit for use and should be on the scrap heap? How many times do we hear of "brake failure" following a truck crash? Brake failure isn't something that 'just happens' - it's the result of lack of care by the vehicle's owner or lack of skill by the driver, both of which can be improved by the enforcement of laws and regulations with HARSH penalties for wrongdoers.

 

Do you see that bike in my avatar? At the time that picture was taken, the bike was 43 years old and in regular use but was maintained in tip-top condition by yours truly. Only 250cc but I did week-long trips averaging more than 450 km a day on it with no problems whatsoever. I've seen motorcycles in Thailand that were in far worse condition than that bike when they were only 2 or 3 years old. My wife's 10 year-old bike is in better condition than her brother's 4 year old bike because I maintain it for her - I'd hate for her to be injured or worse when riding that bike, just for the sake of  bit of maintenance. Light bulb failed? Never mind, don't needs lights? My headlight doesn't work but I can see that car in front when it's dark - never mind that he can't see me. Brake doesn't work? Who needs brakes? 

 

People in UK (and other 'farang' countries) frequently have some pride in their vehicle and their driving skills such that they try to improve their level of driving over the years. It's called 'learning by experience'. I passed advanced motorcycling tests, and then trained others to pass those same tests, not because I had to but because I wanted to - good driving is something to be proud of. Here in Thailand, it generally seems to be a case of 'OK, I've passed the (so-called) driving test, I know it all now'. and driving doesn't get better over the years. 

 

 

 

Edited by MartinL
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On 6/19/2019 at 2:37 PM, Creasy said:

In 2018 Australia the death count was 1143 for the year.

 

My God. Thailand has 7000 in 6 months .

 

Equates approx. to 1 death in 20,000 in Oz or 1 in 5,000 in Thai (considering population)

Goals for 2019:
1. never get on a motorbike

2. research list of current "safest" cars

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6 hours ago, MartinL said:

Thank you. Now we're getting somewhere 🙂 !

I am am studying English. I am not good at it yet. I can’t understand a lot of what you are saying. 

But I will try.

 

 

6 hours ago, MartinL said:

 

1) There are a lot more Chinese 1 billion plus than farang 750,000,000

2) And more Asians than that

 

You're using the same argument to exonerate Asians as you used to bash 'farangs'. Saying there are more Chinese (and Asians in general) than 'farangs' so there are bound to be more Asian deaths on the roads is exactly the same as saying there are more 'farangs' than Thais so there are bound to be more 'farang' deaths on the roads.

 

Yet you've been pushing the question of "... but why so many 'farang' (die)?" for quite a while now in a Thai v. 'farang' urinating contest.

You've just answered your own question - there are MANY, MANY more 'farangs' than Thais!!! Why couldn't you have realised that earlier and saved all these recent argumentative posts?

I not not want to argue. Read my first post. It was safety tips for everyone.

 

 

6 hours ago, MartinL said:

 

However, from my earlier post, for every 3 Britons that die on the roads, 32 Thais die yet the populations of the two countries are almost identical.

 

3) European cars are safer, have more airbags and safety than Asian cars. Even the cars we make in Thailand like the Ford Ranger, have more safety for the export.

 

If the Thai-made Ford Ranger (as your example) has better safety standards for export, that's purely a Thai government problem. They should be saying "If Country X wants this high safety standard, Thailand should have it too". But they don't say that, do they? Or if regulations are in place, they're not enforced by the crap police - crash helmets, driving licences, seat belts, speeding, idiotic antics when passing another vehicle, driving against traffic flow, number of people on a motorcycle and many, many more. Blame the "we don't care enough to enforce laws" Thai government for all that.

 

Hard for change government in Thailand 

 

6 hours ago, MartinL said:

 

If Thailand is striving to join the ranks of 'developed' countries, including in terms of road safety, it can't do that with a government that doesn't give a toss.

 

I'll accept that European cars vehicles are safer, as you suggest, but that's not only new vehicles - there's also the matter of maintenance of older vehicles, or almost total lack of it in Thailand. There's a stringent and very comprehensive annual annual inspection for all cars and motorcycles over 3 years of age in UK (more frequent for some types of vehicle) - fail and your vehicle IS off the road until it's brought up to standard. Compare that to the Thai inspection for vehicles - cursory at best, a pass can be bought, a defective vehicle just drives out of the inspection shop. How many of the beat-up old wrecks that are seen every day on Thai roads aren't fit for use and should be on the scrap heap?

 

A lot but a lot are just for the farm. Eg, we have the old pickup for the palm tree. Palm oil price is low now. We are not going to waste money buying a new pick up just for that. Spend 700,000 to make 500,000. No

Also how the poor people can go to work, school like that.

6 hours ago, MartinL said:

 

 

How many times do we hear of "brake failure" following a truck crash? Brake failure isn't something that 'just happens' - it's the result of lack of care by the vehicle's owner or lack of skill by the driver, both of which can be improved by the enforcement of laws and regulations with HARSH penalties for wrongdoers.

 

Do you see that bike in my avatar? At the time that picture was taken, the bike was 43 years old and in regular use but was maintained in tip-top condition by yours truly. Only 250cc but I did week-long trips averaging more than 450 km a day on it with no problems whatsoever. I've seen motorcycles in Thailand that were in far worse condition than that bike when they were only 2 or 3 years old. My wife's 10 year-old bike is in

 

 If you read my safety tips in the first post I say don’t recommend ride the motorbike. If you want your wife be safe, buy her the car if you have enough money.

My father doesn’t allow me on a motorbike. To dangerous. But some people have no money for the car, so use the motorbike for life.

6 hours ago, MartinL said:

 

 

better condition than her brother's 4 year old bike because I maintain it for her - I'd hate for her to be injured or worse when riding that bike, just for the sake of  bit of maintenance. Light bulb failed? Never mind, don't needs lights? My headlight doesn't work but I can see that car in front when it's dark - never mind that he can't see me. Brake doesn't work? Who needs brakes? 

You should fix your brakes and lights.

 

6 hours ago, MartinL said:

 

People in UK (and other 'farang' countries) frequently have some pride in their vehicle and their driving skills such that they try to improve their level of driving over the years. It's called 'learning by experience'. I passed advanced motorcycling tests, and then trained others to pass those same tests, not because I had to but because I wanted to - good driving is something to be proud of. 

 

I really disagree with you about the motorbike. Up to you, but I think it to dangerous.

 

Take care.

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18 minutes ago, Yinn said:

I am am studying English. I am not good at it yet. I can’t understand a lot of what you are saying. 

But I will try.

 

 

I not not want to argue. Read my first post. It was safety tips for everyone.

 

 

 

Hard for change government in Thailand 

 

A lot but a lot are just for the farm. Eg, we have the old pickup for the palm tree. Palm oil price is low now. We are not going to waste money buying a new pick up just for that. Spend 700,000 to make 500,000. No

Also how the poor people can go to work, school like that.

 If you read my safety tips in the first post I say don’t recommend ride the motorbike. If you want your wife be safe, buy her the car if you have enough money.

My father doesn’t allow me on a motorbike. To dangerous. But some people have no money for the car, so use the motorbike for life.

You should fix your brakes and lights.

 

I really disagree with you about the motorbike. Up to you, but I think it to dangerous.

 

Take care.

 

Enjoyed reading this post, Yinn. Nice, sensible answers instead of "farang do this, farang don't do that". It's nice. You do seem to understand much of the language I use but I must tell you that some of it was a test and more difficult than it should be - because of some of the very good English you wrote earlier, I was sure you were a foreigner who pretends to be Thai. Now I know I was wrong. I apologise but you should be proud that you've responded well in this thread.

 

Of course I understand why poor folks must continue to use old vehicles but does that give them the right to risk other people's lives when they drive on the roads if for example, the brakes are no good or if the exhaust smoke is black and harmful to other people's health? I don't think so. You must have followed the news about PM2.5 pollution - much of it comes from dirty black smoke from vehicles that are not looked after properly. But even things like buses are badly maintained - the excuse of being poor shouldn't apply to vehicles that carry lots of people who pay good money to be taken somewhere. The bus companies should use their income to keep the buses in good condition.

 

If you'll forgive me, with respect I'll ignore your advice to stop riding my motorcycles. I enjoy it too much 🙂 🙂 .

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On 6/21/2019 at 6:27 PM, MartinL said:

Genuine accidents can happen anywhere at any time. Every country has a proportion of drivers who don't care about laws, other people, themselves or 'common' courtesy. 

 I agree with that. 

If you read what I say I said “wear the seat belt, not fast, not drunk, not motorbike, drive four second behind front car, if hav rain turn on the lights and more slow” like that. That is what I say. Try to help.

 

So am I this type you think that? Idiot driver.

 

Thaivisa people say EVERY thai not have “common sence” EVERY Thai stupid, not have spacial. Say that good Thai die because then can not “breed” more idiots. 

They say that about ME.

ALL my family and good friend don’t drive wrong way. None of us die. We see bad driver and don’t like that also. We have the brain.

 

so they wrong. 

 

Many farang on thaivisa have issan bar wife. They talk about that. And they can not speak thai. All there information come from bargirl and the family of the bargirl. So think that all thai is like that. Loso people. 

 

Tarred with the same brush.

 

 

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