Bluespunk Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 15 minutes ago, Loiner said: Dates please. Read The Linked Articles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loiner Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 Read The Linked ArticlesTellUsWhenTheyWerePublished Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CG1 Blue Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 2 hours ago, tebee said: They will make the choice for a hard border, firstly because it would be illegal under WTO rules not to have one, but more importantly because of these pesky things called consequences. Let me give you a couple of exaggerated examples to illustrate those consequences Firstly, imagine the country with the border was thailand not the UK. All the electrical equipment made and sold in Thailand could be shipped across the border to Eire and from there to any other EU country. This would quickly erode confidence in any electrical equipment sold in any country in the single market and no other country would accept exports from there without checking it out first. Secondly Imagine Eire decided to drop the excise duty on Irish whiskey to 50p a bottle . NI would be flooded with cheap Whiskey that had crossed the border and then so would the rest of the UK. Scotch Whisky sales would plummet. So neither side can tolerate an open border when there is no agreement to common tariffs and standards and some supranational body to enforce there rules. Checks can be made at UK ports, and again at Europe mainland ports. These things along with technological developments would greatly limit the kind of (highly unlikely) activity you describe. Yes, some such activity might slip through the net as it does now. But when you weigh up those risks versus a hard border / return of the troubles, it's a no brainer that the EU/RoI will not put up a hard border. As for WTO rules, as long as both sides are taking reasonable steps to preserve the customs arrangements (as I have described), then the WTO folks would be satisfied. With some effort, some imagination and some cash, the EU / RoI will find a way to avoid putting in a hard border. But they're not going to admit this while it's a great bargaining chip in Brexit negotiations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluespunk Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 8 minutes ago, Loiner said: Tell Us When They Were Published Ah, you know they will prove you wrong and are scared to face the truth. https://www.rte.ie/amp/972531/ https://amp.ft.com/content/73ac4a5c-d83f-11e8-a854-33d6f82e62f8 https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/apr/18/how-the-irish-backstop-emerged-as-mays-brexit-nemesis https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/world/2019/2/18/18204269/brexit-irish-border-backstop-explained Heres a snippet just for you ”At 6.25am on 24 June, 2016, an hour after it was clear that Britain had voted to leave the EU, a terse statement was circulated among press officers before being released to the outside world. The Irish Government, said the statement, "notes the outcome of the UK EU referendum this morning. The result clearly has very significant implications for Ireland…" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chomper Higgot Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 6 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said: Checks can be made at UK ports, and again at Europe mainland ports. These things along with technological developments would greatly limit the kind of (highly unlikely) activity you describe. Yes, some such activity might slip through the net as it does now. But when you weigh up those risks versus a hard border / return of the troubles, it's a no brainer that the EU/RoI will not put up a hard border. As for WTO rules, as long as both sides are taking reasonable steps to preserve the customs arrangements (as I have described), then the WTO folks would be satisfied. With some effort, some imagination and some cash, the EU / RoI will find a way to avoid putting in a hard border. But they're not going to admit this while it's a great bargaining chip in Brexit negotiations. Making checks at UK ports (for goods transported between Northern Ireland and the UK Mainland) would be effectively placing a customer border between the UK and Northern Ireland. This exact suggestion of 'checks at UK ports' has been rejected by Unionists - Its a no go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CG1 Blue Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 1 hour ago, Joinaman said: Why Please explain why this would happen ? How would this effect the lives of the majority of the Irish, both North and South ? or are you talking about the paramilitaries who would use any excuse to revert back to bombings and murders ? Yes, the extreme Republicans who object to NI being part of the UK would use a hard border as an excuse to start trouble again. But I am arguing that nobody is going to install a hard border - so this will not be an issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chomper Higgot Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 8 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said: Yes, the extreme Republicans who object to NI being part of the UK would use a hard border as an excuse to start trouble again. But I am arguing that nobody is going to install a hard border - so this will not be an issue. Nobody has come up with a workable solution to the border, so I'm not sure on what basis you can exclude a hard border. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tebee Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 11 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said: Checks can be made at UK ports, and again at Europe mainland ports. These things along with technological developments would greatly limit the kind of (highly unlikely) activity you describe. Yes, some such activity might slip through the net as it does now. But when you weigh up those risks versus a hard border / return of the troubles, it's a no brainer that the EU/RoI will not put up a hard border. As for WTO rules, as long as both sides are taking reasonable steps to preserve the customs arrangements (as I have described), then the WTO folks would be satisfied. With some effort, some imagination and some cash, the EU / RoI will find a way to avoid putting in a hard border. But they're not going to admit this while it's a great bargaining chip in Brexit negotiations. You can't check at either of those for political reasons - it's against single market rules to do so in the EU and the DUP would not allow it to happen between UK/NI Now it doesn't matter what crosses the border as the same rules apply both sides - that is not the case post hard brexit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CG1 Blue Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 7 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said: Nobody has come up with a workable solution to the border, so I'm not sure on what basis you can exclude a hard border. That's because there has not been the political motivation to come up with a solution - not publicly anyway. I have no doubt Varadkar and his EU chums have a plan to avoid a hard border in a no deal scenario. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CG1 Blue Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 10 minutes ago, tebee said: You can't check at either of those for political reasons - it's against single market rules to do so in the EU and the DUP would not allow it to happen between UK/NI Now it doesn't matter what crosses the border as the same rules apply both sides - that is not the case post hard brexit. Rules can be amended if the need is great enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tebee Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 1 minute ago, CG1 Blue said: That's because there has not been the political motivation to come up with a solution - not publicly anyway. I have no doubt Varadkar and his EU chums have a plan to avoid a hard border in a no deal scenario. Is it not equally possible that it's because there is no solution that is compatible with a hard Brexit ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joinaman Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 1 hour ago, tebee said: NO counties in the world have only electronic customs. Do you not remember what the border posts were like before the GFA? Mini-forts that still got blown up regularly. The IRA would see any attempt to re-impose them and re-partition Ireland as an affront Not only will putting them back break the GFA it will cost a fortune so it would be an affront ? Why ? how would this effect the IRA and others ? Are you saying the paramilitaries don't want to obeys laws unless its by the use of force ? Where does it state in the agreement about what type of borders ? Both the North and South have "Free" movement through the border, they just have to be checked as per most countries borders. with most of it done by electronic, with occasional stop and check , as per most countries Why should that be a problem ? Does it stop the drug smuggling, gun running ? no, they use the old routes across the farms for that, so why else should it start another round of murders Its a border, so if they obey the EU rules, as well as the UKs, why would anyone need mini forts Why would it cost a fortune, the EU would be the ones to impose either electronic or hard border, not the U Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joinaman Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 1 hour ago, petemoss said: We were told that leaving would be easy and that we would get an agreement with the EU that would be beneficial to the UK in every way. Does this sound much like the deal that May negotiated? Does this sound anything like a no deal Brexit? no but if the remainers stopped telling lies and blocking every move, we would have been out by now wouldn't we ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joinaman Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 1 hour ago, tebee said: physical infrastructure https://goo.gl/maps/s7GXZHitf5YawzLP7 yup, with a mix of physical and electronic so what would be the problem with that ? it works everywhere else, so why should Ireland be exempt ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petemoss Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 8 minutes ago, Joinaman said: yup, with a mix of physical and electronic so what would be the problem with that ? it works everywhere else, so why should Ireland be exempt ? What electronic? Do you mean the electronic that's going to take at least 5 years to develop and then probably won't work? Where else does it work? please tell us. Ireland should be exempt because it invalidates the GFA. Do try to keep up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vogie Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 6 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said: Putting aside your multiple unfounded assertions in one short sentence. It's always somebody else's fault. Another hackneyed expression used as a get out of jail free card, probably used 50/100 times but complains when somebody uses a meme a couple of times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joinaman Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 2 minutes ago, petemoss said: What electronic? Do you mewan the electronic that's going to take at least 5 years to develop and then probably won't work? Where else does it work? please tell us. Ireland should be exempt because it invalidates the GFA. Do try to keep up. how much goods comes through Dover , with customs clearance done online electronically, with most trucks a showing the correct papers then continuing ? If it works there, why would it take years in Ireland, or is it too difficult for Irish people to understand ? Can you show me where it invalidates the GFA ? there will still be free crossing of any border for Both Irish people so why should it effect them so much Sorry, but i do find it hard to keep up with the minds of the Irish , must be all those potatoes they eat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petemoss Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 1 minute ago, Joinaman said: how much goods comes through Dover , with customs clearance done online electronically, with most trucks a showing the correct papers then continuing ? If it works there, why would it take years in Ireland, or is it too difficult for Irish people to understand ? Can you show me where it invalidates the GFA ? there will still be free crossing of any border for Both Irish people so why should it effect them so much Sorry, but i do find it hard to keep up with the minds of the Irish , must be all those potatoes they eat All your questions have already been answered. No wonder you find it hard to keep up with the minds of the Irish, you seem to find it impossible to keep up with this topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metisdead Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 Some troll posts and the trolling replies have been removed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tebee Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 1 hour ago, Joinaman said: so it would be an affront ? Why ? how would this effect the IRA and others ? Are you saying the paramilitaries don't want to obeys laws unless its by the use of force ? I can't believe you are honestly asking me that .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tebee Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 1 hour ago, Joinaman said: Both the North and South have "Free" movement through the border, they just have to be checked as per most countries borders. with most of it done by electronic, with occasional stop and check , as per most countries Why should that be a problem ? Does it stop the drug smuggling, gun running ? no, they use the old routes across the farms for that, so why else should it start another round of murders Its a border, so if they obey the EU rules, as well as the UKs, why would anyone need mini forts Why would it cost a fortune, the EU would be the ones to impose either electronic or hard border, not the U What about EU citizens or illegal immigrants? They will have no rights to cross the border, but unless you check who is crossing how will you stop them from entering NI and then the UK? But it's goods that is the main problem If you don't physically check them how do you know what is crossing the border? I could declare I was exporting a lorry load of expensive aircraft components to Eire and claim back the vat on them, but infact take over sa load of scrap steel. Without check the opportunities for fraud are endless. Read the comments on this for what a return to the border will mean for the folk there https://www.quora.com/What-benefit-of-our-EU-membership-will-you-regret-losing-the-most-if-Brexit-actually-happens/answer/Rachel-Anderson-166 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loiner Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 8 hours ago, tebee said: What about EU citizens or illegal immigrants? They will have no rights to cross the border, but unless you check who is crossing how will you stop them from entering NI and then the UK? EU citizens would have no problem anyway. They will be roaming around on holiday in RVs as usual. The others will be caught at the benefits offices, as they try to claim as usual. How many illegal immigrants are there in non-schengen Ireland anyway? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chomper Higgot Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 1 hour ago, Loiner said: EU citizens would have no problem anyway. They will be roaming around on holiday in RVs as usual. The others will be caught at the benefits offices, as they try to claim as usual. How many illegal immigrants are there in non-schengen Ireland anyway? How do illegal immigrants claim benefits? They'd have to be registered as entitled to claim benefits first. Can you provide a believable explanation of how this happens or are you making stuff up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transam Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 7 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said: How do illegal immigrants claim benefits? They'd have to be registered as entitled to claim benefits first. Can you provide a believable explanation of how this happens or are you making stuff up? Illegal immigrants are let loose on the streets and are given cash until their stuff is sorted.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieH Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 16 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said: How do illegal immigrants claim benefits? They'd have to be registered as entitled to claim benefits first. Can you provide a believable explanation of how this happens or are you making stuff up? Hardship payment Emergency payment Crisis loan To name but a few, all available via benefits ! https://www.benefitsguide.co.uk/emergency-assistance/ Also local council discretionary assistance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chomper Higgot Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 9 minutes ago, transam said: Illegal immigrants are let loose on the streets and are given cash until their stuff is sorted.. More unsubstantiated claims. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chomper Higgot Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 4 minutes ago, CharlieH said: Hardship payment Emergency payment Crisis loan To name but a few, all available via benefits ! https://www.benefitsguide.co.uk/emergency-assistance/ Non of which is payable to illegal immigrants. So once again, more unsubstantiated claims. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transam Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 Just now, Chomper Higgot said: More unsubstantiated claims. Go on youtube, UK border force, sift through the program episodes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieH Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 4 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said: Non of which is payable to illegal immigrants. So once again, more unsubstantiated claims It payable to anyone they deem qualifies based on their individual circumstances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chomper Higgot Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 20 minutes ago, CharlieH said: It payable to anyone they deem qualifies based on their individual circumstances. And to qualify they need to explain their circumstances. At which point they must produce a few bits of missing information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.