Nearly sent back at airport - IO says after this 60 day stay I can't come back for 6 months

[Caldera]

12 hours ago, elviajero said:

My point is that they are hardly going to accept a form from a smart arse visitor if they are not prepared to issue one.

 

What is the “victim” going to do if they simply won’t take an appeal? Best to also have an appeal against them not allowing an appeal form filled out!

Entirely predictable answer. You would probably still defend the criminal elements in immigration if they started hanging people from the airport ceiling, also without due process.

[elviajero]

5 hours ago, Thaidream said:

There is plenty you can do-

 

-Have a blank form in your possession and pull it out once they refuse to give you the form and request appeal.

 

-Have in your possession a print out of the law in Thai and refer the Officer to it.

 

-Request permission for a phone call to either the Immigration Hot line or a lawyer

 

-Have in your possession the phone number of a respected Thai person who may be able to assist you- such as a Phuyai Bahn or Obator

 

Remain calm. Do not raise your voice and smile while you negotiate the steps.  It is not against the law to request an appeal.

Okay, good luck with that!

[jacko45k]

9 hours ago, elviajero said:

Nothing much you can do.

Produce a blank one from your bag as UJ says above?

[BritTim]

18 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

Produce a blank one from your bag as UJ says above?

I would try this. However, I would not be shocked if they simply tore it up in front of you. Once officials start ignoring the law, they will not be happy when you push back against their actions.

[elviajero]

1 hour ago, jacko45k said:

Produce a blank one from your bag as UJ says above?

Same question to you. If they are refusing to supply an appeal form why do you think they are going to accept one you produce from your bag? And why do you think pissing them off is going to help your cause? 

 

IMO asking to appeal might get the IO to back down. If they accept an appeal, the supervisor, might back down. If they accept an appeal and pass it up the line it means you’ve next to no hope of having the appeal upheld, and potentially spend days in custody. 

[elviajero]

4 hours ago, Caldera said:

Entirely predictable answer. You would probably still defend the criminal elements in immigration if they started hanging people from the airport ceiling, also without due process.

I am defending the “victim”, not immigration!!! Your personal bias on the subject seems to hinder your comprehension.

[Thaidream]

1 hour ago, BritTim said:

would try this. However, I would not be shocked if they simply tore it up in front of you. Once officials start ignoring the law, they will not be happy when you push back against their actions.

I agree completely- even court action is not a sure bet- it can and has been ignored.

[Thaidream]

8 minutes ago, elviajero said:

Same question to you. If they are refusing to supply an appeal form why do you think they are going to accept one you produce from your bag? And why do you think pissing them off is going to help your cause? 

 

IMO asking to appeal might get the IO to back down. If they accept an appeal, the supervisor, might back down. If they accept an appeal and pass it up the line it means you’ve next to no hope of having the appeal upheld, and potentially spend days in custody. 

I think you have a point and it is a gamble to push the issue but IMO it depends how you approach it and if the Officer is either fluent in English or your Thai language skills are adequate.

 

I wouldn't immediately pull out the form- I would start by asking for their help and explain the situation.  If there was no chance of them listening- at this point I would pull out the form and ask politely for an appeal.  i would also ask for their names and rank- and write them down. I would also ask for the senior officer and go from there.  I would also be aware- that Thai officials do not like having their authority questioned so be prepared for a negative reaction .

 

  The orders to tighten the entry process must have come from a high level- probably at the Cabinet level and then filter down to the Immigration Head and those who man the entry points.

[ubonjoe]

8 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

The orders to tighten the entry process must have come from a high level- probably at the Cabinet level and then filter down to the Immigration Head and those who man the entry points.

If that was true there would be an official order for it that would be posted in the royal gazette.

Also if true it would be happening at all entry points not just the few that have been reported as doing it.

[Briggsy]

8 hours ago, Thaidream said:

-Request permission for a phone call to either the Immigration Hot line or a lawyer

Having been denied entry myself at Suwannaphum, I can tell you that you can phone whoever you like and access the internet if you have a Thai sim. You are detained, not in prison. There is a difference. You can livestream the whole process if you have sufficient battery and data on your own phone.

 

The Africans are all there shouting into their phones trying to rustle up the money to buy a ticket. The liaison guy who works with immigration and the airlines is shouting at you to pay for a ticket/ticket change now.

 

So no need to request permission to phone anybody.

[Nanglon]

9 minutes ago, Briggsy said:

Having been denied entry myself at Suwannaphum, I can tell you that you can phone whoever you like and access the internet if you have a Thai sim. You are detained, not in prison. There is a difference. You can livestream the whole process if you have sufficient battery and data on your own phone.

 

The Africans are all there shouting into their phones trying to rustle up the money to buy a ticket. The liaison guy who works with immigration and the airlines is shouting at you to pay for a ticket/ticket change now.

 

So no need to request permission to phone anybody.

Might we learn why you were detained and how that then progressed?

[Briggsy]

2 minutes ago, Nanglon said:

Might we learn why you were detained and how that then progressed?

Same as everybody else - over 6 months in one year in Thailand on tourist visas. I have detailed my story many times on here. Have a search through my postings.

[Nanglon]

3 minutes ago, Briggsy said:

Same as everybody else - over 6 months in one year in Thailand on tourist visas. I have detailed my story many times on here. Have a search through my postings.

OK, thanks

[elviajero]

11 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

If that was true there would be an official order for it that would be posted in the royal gazette.

Also if true it would be happening at all entry points not just the few that have been reported as doing it.

No it wouldn’t. Only formal regulation would need to be posted in the gazette.

 

The authorities have clearly ordered IO’s to  clamp down on people using TR’s to live in the country in the same way they did with VE. When they announced a clampdown on ‘visa runners’ no regulation or change in the law was passed. They simply told IO’s to use their discretion; which is what has been happening with TR holders at many checkpoints.

[Briggsy]

1 minute ago, elviajero said:

The authorities have clearly ordered IO’s to  clamp down on people using TR’s to live in the country

You always skirt around the fact it is specific to certain points of entry (Bangkok airports, Phuket and Krabi airports) and the other points of entry have not heard of these orders.

 

Why have Nong Khai, Mukdahan, Chiang Mai, Chantaburi, Trat, etc Immigration not received these same orders?

 

Is it related to the division of revenue from Thai Elite?

[elviajero]

1 minute ago, Briggsy said:

You always skirt around the fact it is specific to certain points of entry (Bangkok airports, Phuket and Krabi airports) and the other points of entry have not heard of these orders.

IMO they’ve targeted the airports because long term tourists, on the advice of people on forums like this, started using airports to avoid increasing scrutiny at the land borders, and because they now have to trawl SEA to beat the limit on visas at places like Vientiane.

 

As the long term tourist MO changes again, and people go back to using land borders, which is already happening, you will see reports of increased scrutiny and denials at land borders too.

 

1 minute ago, Briggsy said:

Why have Nong Khai, Mukdahan, Chiang Mai, Chantaburi, Trat, etc Immigration not received these same orders?

Checkpoints have always had different orders at any given time to deal with the  unique situations at each check point. Aranya’ being an example wanting to stop visa runners at a busy border.

 

1 minute ago, Briggsy said:

Is it related to the division of revenue from Thai Elite?

I don’t see how. 

[dcnx]

Fly into Chiang Mai. They don’t worry about trivial nonsense there. It’s straight forward. 

 

I’ve no idea why so many attempt to enter via Bangkok these days. Take a different route and you won’t have to worry about it.

[bbi1]

On 6/26/2019 at 8:52 PM, ubonjoe said:

It wouldn't hurt to have at least have a blank one. Immigration has refused to provide the form when asked for one.

Anyone here have multiple citizenships therefore multiple passports? Might be a good idea to alternate using each one for a METV. For example:

 

1st time - Use your home country's passport, go to the Thai embassy in your local city and get the METV visa in that passport. After 9 months go back to your home country.

 

2nd time - Now you're in your home country you use your 2nd passport from a 2nd citizenship/2nd country but go to the same Thai embassy in your local city and get a METV visa in the 2nd country's passport. Enter Thailand on that passport. After 9 months go back to your home country.

 

Then do that loop swapping between passports/visas continuously.

 

I just wonder, would immigration at the airport be able to put together that it's the same person entering on a different country's passport? Surely with the full name being the same in their system and on both passports it's highly likely their system will match it. If not by the name & birth dates then by the photos in their system. Or if their fingerprint scanners get up and running then by the fingerprints. What do you all think?

[elviajero]

1 hour ago, bbi1 said:

I just wonder, would immigration at the airport be able to put together that it's the same person entering on a different country's passport?

Yes, however it's a manual process. When you present your passport a search is made against your name and date of birth. It’s then up to the IO to link any passports used by the same person regardless of nationality.

[1RDN]

On 6/25/2019 at 6:38 AM, ubonjoe said:

Yes there is a appeal allowed. You complete a TM11 form, pay the 1900 baht fee and they have to respond to it within 7 days.

 

Download: TM11 appeal form.pdf135.52 kB · 39 downloads

This option was never offered when I was in the situation. I asked, ignored. 

Where would you present the appeal and where would you wait the 7 days? 

Maybe download the form, print, file in the suitcase with a good pen? 

[1RDN]

On 6/27/2019 at 4:08 PM, bbi1 said:

Anyone here have multiple citizenships therefore multiple passports? Might be a good idea to alternate using each one for a METV. For example:

 

1st time - Use your home country's passport, go to the Thai embassy in your local city and get the METV visa in that passport. After 9 months go back to your home country.

 

2nd time - Now you're in your home country you use your 2nd passport from a 2nd citizenship/2nd country but go to the same Thai embassy in your local city and get a METV visa in the 2nd country's passport. Enter Thailand on that passport. After 9 months go back to your home country.

 

Then do that loop swapping between passports/visas continuously.

 

I just wonder, would immigration at the airport be able to put together that it's the same person entering on a different country's passport? Surely with the full name being the same in their system and on both passports it's highly likely their system will match it. If not by the name & birth dates then by the photos in their system. Or if their fingerprint scanners get up and running then by the fingerprints. What do you all think?

I don't have multiple citizenships, but I doubt different countries are linked for names and birthdays.

I know that the US can't keep it straight with the same name, and nothing else matches. (that story is in the thread somewhere). 

Here is what I think, that is way too much hassle to come into Thailand. There must be a good reason to come if you have to put in that much effort. 

It's probably easier to just get the proper visa from the primary country. Prepare for the worst.

Fingerprint scanners will change everything. What I worry about, what if there are any problems, how do you deal with this issue? No technology is perfect. 

[ubonjoe]

20 minutes ago, 1RDN said:

This option was never offered when I was in the situation. I asked, ignored. 

Where would you present the appeal and where would you wait the 7 days? 

Maybe download the form, print, file in the suitcase with a good pen? 

They will not offer it ever as far as I know. People that new about it asked for the appeal form but they would not give one to them.

As soon as they try to have you sign the denial form hand them them the completed TM11 form.

Having your own form would be wise. Perhaps complete the basic info on it that does change so you have less to complete.

[JimmyTheMook]

8 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

They will not offer it ever as far as I know. People that new about it asked for the appeal form but they would not give one to them.

As soon as they try to have you sign the denial form hand them them the completed TM11 form.

Having your own form would be wise. Perhaps complete the basic info on it that does change so you have less to complete.

 

Link that again here please?

 

[ubonjoe]

12 minutes ago, JimmyTheMook said:

 

Link that again here please?

 

Download: TM11 appeal form.pdf135.52 kB · 39 downloads

[Rastaputin]

On page 2 of this form there needs to be an address entered. Your intended place of stay in Thailand (Pre-booked Hotel or condo?) Or foreign home-address?

 

[ubonjoe]

6 minutes ago, Rastaputin said:

On page 2 of this form there needs to be an address entered. Your intended place of stay in Thailand (Pre-booked Hotel or condo?) Or foreign home-address?

 

Your intended address here. It should be the same one you put on the TM6 arrival card.

[ThomasThBKK]

8 minutes ago, Rastaputin said:

On page 2 of this form there needs to be an address entered. Your intended place of stay in Thailand (Pre-booked Hotel or condo?) Or foreign home-address?

 

Thai address, it's thai address format and doesn't have a field for country. So must be Thai address.

[Caldera]

38 minutes ago, FredGallaher said:

I think that those being denied are leaving out important information that available to IO (in some cases). This is especially true when the person has been in Thailand before. 

What kind of information, specifically, are they leaving out in your opinion? I have no idea what you mean.

[kmw]

I had a similar situation a few weeks back, previous I was on back to back metv for the last few years, most recent entry was on business visa, spent 30 minutes with the IO and her supervisor being grilled about my back to back metv, got through in the end, was not a pleasant experience

Edited July 7, 2019 by kmw

[BritTim]

1 hour ago, FredGallaher said:

Well, number of previous stays length of time in Thailand, previous history of visa runs, problems with police, etc. Basically anything that might show up on the immigration computer. They also evaluate the applicant for acting evasive or uneasy. Anything that points that they are no a true tourist as they claim.

I would point out that Thai Immigration does not officially have the power to deny entry for any of the reasons you cite except problems with police if those involved prosecution for serious crimes. Of course, that does not prevent officials from doing what they like if their immediate superiors allow or encourage it.