The week that was in Thailand news: Cheating - endemic yes, but not a Thai way of life.

[phantomfiddler]

Jeez !

[PaDavid]

A brilliant read as always. Thank you Rooster, but as you often cite your English background, I do wish you would use the spellings of the OED not the American version (assuming there is one). The two errors I spotted this week were, 'neighbors' and 'theater.' And, no, I'm not your typical bash everything farang. I really do enjoy reading your column despite the Americanisations. 

[Lacessit]

I can understand several posters getting frustrated with Rooster's prolix prose. Fortunately, I am a speed reader so it does not bother me.

I don't consider Thais are any different to any other nationality with respect to cheating. Where they do differ is their reactions to being caught and called out.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

On 6/22/2019 at 5:04 PM, rooster59 said:

Despite yonks in the kingdom - and by no means wearing rose tinted specs - I don't believe that Thais or Thailand are any more dishonest than most.

 

It seems to me, the guts your your article and the many Thai-related cheating type episodes you reel off are more than sufficient to counter the rose-tinted proposition you make above about the local habit toward dishonesty.

 

Start with the government and officialdom, then onward to the police, then onward to local Olympic athletes and even your Scrabble contestant who have now been disqualified. Then add in the polls that show the Thai public in general is OK with corruption and cheating as long as they benefit from it.

 

Suffice to say, a commitment to the truth and honesty in dealings are not particular strong suits here, nor regarded as important principles by most.

 

 

 

[Lacessit]

9 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Suffice to say, a commitment to the truth and honesty in dealings are not particular strong suits here, nor regarded as important principles by most.

 

 

 

I have to say in my time here, farangs have sought entry to my wallet more often than Thais.

[sambum]

6 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

I have to say in my time here, farangs have sought entry to my wallet more often than Thais.

Do you actually know any Thai ladies?

[Stevemercer]

As stated by an earlier poster, 'it is not cheating if you believe it isn't'.

 

I suspect most Thais would be offended if you told them they were cheating or rigging the system for their own benefit. Judging by Thai standards it is not cheating because everyone does it.

[ttrd]

On 6/22/2019 at 12:25 PM, thequietman said:

Over 50 paragraphs! Can I assume brevity is not one of your skills?

 

It must be a nightmare initiating a conversation with you!

 

Yawn. ????

Possible brevity was exactly what it was - from that edge … ????

[Lacessit]

2 hours ago, sambum said:

Do you actually know any Thai ladies?

I have a Thai GF. What I give her is a fair trade.

[cardinalblue]

I taught 10 years in Thai colleges an universities....cheating is in the fabric of the culture....it is a way of life here.

 

it all comes back to a lack of accountability and also a lack of seriousness in whatever subject at hand....

[Jane Dough]

On 6/22/2019 at 5:25 PM, thequietman said:

Over 50 paragraphs! Can I assume brevity is not one of your skills?

 

It must be a nightmare initiating a conversation with you!

 

Yawn. ????

Brevity is the soul of Twitter. 

 

Anyway, i'm glad that you enjoyed the feature on Colin at least. One of the reasons that is quite a good piece is that when in conversation I let the other person do most of the talking. I try not to be too much of a nightmare.

 

Keep reading Thaivisa!

 

Regards,

 

Rooster

[Jane Dough]

6 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

It seems to me, the guts your your article and the many Thai-related cheating type episodes you reel off are more than sufficient to counter the rose-tinted proposition you make above about the local habit toward dishonesty.

 

Start with the government and officialdom, then onward to the police, then onward to local Olympic athletes and even your Scrabble contestant who have now been disqualified. Then add in the polls that show the Thai public in general is OK with corruption and cheating as long as they benefit from it.

 

Suffice to say, a commitment to the truth and honesty in dealings are not particular strong suits here, nor regarded as important principles by most.

 

 

 

I hear what you're saying. 

 

It is just that I have found a great deal of honesty and integrity in Thailand as well as dishonesty. I try to appreciate the former and deal with the latter. It helps me to keep a positive outlook on Thailand and not dwell on the negative. Translating 50-60 news stories a week one must have a strategy to deal with the negative!

 

Regards,

 

Rooster. 

[wreckingcountry]

After half way through realised it was, to quote the OP own words “rose tinted “ opinion. I have taught in 5 countries 4 in Asia, and Thailand is the worst for cheating in exams,mainly because like many other ways of getting that “piece of paper” it’s an accepted method !

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

 

[brianthainess]

On 6/22/2019 at 5:04 PM, rooster59 said:

Might I suggest that the money goes to good,free helmets for school children.

They did that in my village and to adults,none wear them,they interfere with texting while they drive . 

[brianthainess]

On 6/22/2019 at 10:07 PM, the guest said:

Quote "serpent conned Eve and Adam"; only for those that believe... the rest of us have thankfully come to our senses and worked out what is real, and what is not !

That IT,  I'm off to the Land of Nod to begat myself a new wife. 

[thequietman]

9 hours ago, Jane Dough said:

Brevity is the soul of Twitter. 

 

Anyway, i'm glad that you enjoyed the feature on Colin at least. One of the reasons that is quite a good piece is that when in conversation I let the other person do most of the talking. I try not to be too much of a nightmare.

 

Keep reading Thaivisa!

 

Regards,

 

Rooster

Journalistic writing or news writing is a prose style which is used for reporting in newspapers, radio, television and TV. When writing journalistically, one has to take into account not only one’s audience, (old farts) but also the tone in which the piece is delivered, as well as the ABCs of news writing.
According to “Basic News Writing” the ABCs of news writing are Accuracy, Brevity and Clarity (“Basic News Writing 1)

 

You are not writing a book Rooster, only a news article. ????

[rosst]

On 6/22/2019 at 7:20 PM, Samui Bodoh said:

 

"It is not cheating if you don't believe that it is cheating"

George Costanza, (Paraphrased and bastardized)

 

As always, a well-written column and enjoyable read. However, one might (wrongly, of course) wonder if Mr R has adapted to the local culture a wee bit too much...

 

"It is not cheating if you don't believe that it is cheating"

George Costanza, (Paraphrased and bastardized)

 

Being interested in both history and politics in SE Asia, I have been following and studying various countries for over 30 years, and while I think there is cheating all over the region, I have to say that Thailand seems to take the proverbial cake. 

 

In Timor-Leste (East Timor a the time) I recall chatting with an Indonesian Military Colonel who claimed the occupation and systemic oppression/repression was legitimate as the Timorese constantly broke the rules. I should point out that he was not amused when I pointed out that the Timorese had no input in the rules.

 

"It is not cheating if you don't believe that it is cheating"

George Costanza, (Paraphrased and bastardized)

 

I recall truly fun chats with an old Muslim guy on the island of Sulawesi, Indonesia about his wives. He was adamant that should any of his young brides... er... ahem... stray, he was fully justified in giving them a severe beating/whipping. I should point out that he was not amused when I pointed out that he had several wives, and he proclaimed that it wasn't cheating as God had given him the 'Okay'.

 

"It is not cheating if you don't believe that it is cheating"

George Costanza, (Paraphrased and bastardized)

 

Looking at modern Thai history and politics, I see endless coups, attempted coups, constitutions, interpretation of rules with a generous personal bent, rationalizations, re-interpretation of the aforementioned rules, reversal of interpretations, more coups, more rationalizations, another constitution or two, further re-interpretation(s) of relevant rules, another series of coups, an occasional re-re-re-re-interpretation of rules, etc. And, strangely enough, all seemed to benefit the individual looking at the relevant issue(s) and/or subjects. Funny that. I should point out that when I mention this to my Thai friends, they are not amused, and they look at me with a blank expression..

 

"It is not cheating if you don't believe that it is cheating"

George Costanza, (Paraphrased and bastardized)

 

Never once have I seen or heard the Interpreter of rules admit that all had changed for their benefit; it has always been strictly legitimate and always said with a straight face.

 

"It is not cheating if you don't believe that it is cheating"

George Costanza, (Paraphrased and bastardized)

 

I guess that you are correct; the Thais don't cheat much. And, TVF members don't actually complain.

 

Learn something new everyday...

 

 

I found your riposte amusing and interesting but you need to lift your game to head the rooster, go you good thing. Ha ha ha, great work both of you 

[Dexlowe]

51 minutes ago, thequietman said:

Journalistic writing or news writing is a prose style which is used for reporting in newspapers, radio, television and TV. When writing journalistically, one has to take into account not only one’s audience, (old farts) but also the tone in which the piece is delivered, as well as the ABCs of news writing.
According to “Basic News Writing” the ABCs of news writing are Accuracy, Brevity and Clarity (“Basic News Writing 1)

 

You are not writing a book Rooster, only a news article. ????

The average opinion/analysis piece in a newspaper is 800-900 words, with some more prominent writers allowed up to 1500. News features can go up to 1500, with some given space of up to 3,000 words (usually presented as a full page feature with lots of pix and liftouts). The more prominent broadsheets, of course, are much more flexible, depending on the topic. The average busy newspaper reader usually only reads the first few pars of a story, unless it's of great interest.

 

Rooster has the luxury of no space constraints. Just reader interest, and therefore 3,000 words is ok, but still a luxury. A professional sub editor (an almost extinct breed these days) would no doubt relish the challenge of cutting him back to 1500 words.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

2 hours ago, wreckingcountry said:

After half way through realised it was, to quote the OP own words “rose tinted “ opinion. I have taught in 5 countries 4 in Asia, and Thailand is the worst for cheating in exams,mainly because like many other ways of getting that “piece of paper” it’s an accepted method !

 

 

In the academic realm, it's not just exams...

 

A while back, I had the chance to read thru a bunch of EN language, final accepted master's theses at one of the private international universities in BKK. And they were a total, amazing joke.

 

Long, long passages of narrative that clearly were simply copied and pasted from textbooks on the topics, with no quotes, attribution or citations, masquerading as the authors' own words. And yet clearly not, because the authors didn't even bother to chance the voice of the textbook content from 3rd person to 1st person of their own words.

 

Not to mention, the clear difference in writing style shifting between the voice of farang textbook authors vs. Thai or SE Asian master's students writing in English as their second language. All of the above made it easy to see when they were cribbing from other sources without credit, i.e., plagiarizing.

 

And those were accepted by the university, all nice and bound sitting on their library shelves, after having awarded master's degrees to the "authors".

 

[Jane Dough]

1 hour ago, thequietman said:

Journalistic writing or news writing is a prose style which is used for reporting in newspapers, radio, television and TV. When writing journalistically, one has to take into account not only one’s audience, (old farts) but also the tone in which the piece is delivered, as well as the ABCs of news writing.
According to “Basic News Writing” the ABCs of news writing are Accuracy, Brevity and Clarity (“Basic News Writing 1)

 

You are not writing a book Rooster, only a news article. ????

I write up to 60 news articles a week on Thaivisa that my name is not on. With these stories brevity is assured unless more detail is required. TWTW is not a news article per se but a comment/feature piece and a round up. Ergo it is much longer.

 

Hopefully Rooster's TWTW in a more potted form will soon be available as a book. 

 

Rooster

 

 

[Dexlowe]

2 minutes ago, Jane Dough said:

Hopefully Rooster's TWTW in a more potted form will soon be available as a book.

"Potted"? Do you mean buried?

[Jane Dough]

3 minutes ago, Dexlowe said:

"Potted"? Do you mean buried?

Shorter rather than buried...or sozzled.

 

Rooster

[Dexlowe]

1 minute ago, Jane Dough said:

Shorter rather than buried...or sozzled.

 

Rooster

Oh, sorry. For some reason I was thinking of fertilizer. ????

[wreckingcountry]

 
In the academic realm, it's not just exams...
 
A while back, I had the chance to read thru a bunch of EN language, final accepted master's theses at one of the private international universities in BKK. And they were a total, amazing joke.
 
Long, long passages of narrative that clearly were simply copied and pasted from textbooks on the topics, with no quotes, attribution or citations, masquerading as the authors' own words. And yet clearly not, because the authors didn't even bother to chance the voice of the textbook content from 3rd person to 1st person of their own words.
 
Not to mention, the clear difference in writing style shifting between the voice of farang textbook authors vs. Thai or SE Asian master's students writing in English as their second language. All of the above made it easy to see when they were cribbing from other sources without credit, i.e., plagiarizing.
 
And those were accepted by the university, all nice and bound sitting on their library shelves, after having awarded master's degrees to the "authors".
 

I rest my case. Thai Degree BA MA totally meaningless !


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[Jane Dough]

7 hours ago, Benroon said:

I don't get it - as there are a finite amount of Scrabble tiles how can you get away with an additional tile (an additional blank would stand out a mile) ?

 

Or is it more devious ?

He was keeping a couple of useful ones hidden in his hand. When the time was ripe he would exchange for one or two on his rack and secrete those into his hand then into the bag. Sleight of hand that would give a good player - and he is or was a very good player - a massive advantage. It would guarantee fifty point bonus words at crucial points in games. 

 

Rooster

[Marpa47]

Include my wife, must be triplets.

Must be a Thai thing. My wife the same. From Hatyai.


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[Marpa47]

Aw get real.  Bernard Lawrence Madoff Prosecutors estimated the fraud to be worth $64.8 billion.  Thailand is two bit.  

So then it is not cheating if one isn’t caught? Beware the curse of Twain, where there be “lies, d____d lies... and THEN there’s statistics!”



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[Marpa47]

I write up to 60 news articles a week on Thaivisa that my name is not on. With these stories brevity is assured unless more detail is required. TWTW is not a news article per se but a comment/feature piece and a round up. Ergo it is much longer.
 
Hopefully Rooster's TWTW in a more potted form will soon be available as a book. 
 
Rooster
 
 

Looking forward to it! Balancing the wife’s unquestioning faith in all things Thai as superior to anything else on earth is a boon to my usually gullible sensibilities.


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[jerojero]

Ok Everyone, be honest. Who really read this entire post, an epic novel it seems. Don't be economical with the truth, however. Mr R. brevity brevity my friend.

[BobBKK]

The Thai 'way of life' is compromised ethics. It's everywhere, deep in the culture. Once you know not to trust a Thai life is easier.