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U.S. prods Iran for talks to ease Gulf tensions; Tehran dismisses sanctions threat


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7 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

The "nobody" bit would be your extreme and incorrect view.

As for things not being "actually meaningful" to the USA - a rather meaningless comment, and an incorrect one, at that.

 

Yet there is nothing meaningful in your comment even if one took the time to fully digest it.

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13 minutes ago, Cryingdick said:

That may be true however nobody is going to say Israel is wrong if they take out the nuclear program of a country that could end them with one bomb. Let's be clear none of this is actually meaningful to the USA.

Well, if none of this is actually meaningful to the USA, then I guess that means that as far as the USA is concerned, Trump's flotilla is meaningless. So why is he doing this?

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1 minute ago, bristolboy said:

Well, if none of this is actually meaningful to the USA, then I guess that means that as far as the USA is concerned, Trump's flotilla is meaningless. So why is he doing this?

 

Trump has said as much. We have our own oil and no reason to remain there doing the job of other nations to protect the strait. Obviously it is a bargaining chip with China when the G20 happens.

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2 minutes ago, Cryingdick said:

 

Trump has said as much. We have our own oil and no reason to remain there doing the job of other nations to protect the strait. Obviously it is a bargaining chip with China when the G20 happens.

Trump says lots of things. Often contradictory. Often in rapid succession. As for it being a bargaining chip with China? So if China gives Trump what he wants then Trump will do what in relation to Iran? Cancel sanctions on it? 

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1 minute ago, bristolboy said:

Trump says lots of things. Often contradictory. Often in rapid succession. As for it being a bargaining chip with China? So if China gives Trump what he wants then Trump will do what in relation to Iran? Cancel sanctions on it? 

oil for rare earths. If oil goes up to $100 a barrel china is in deep doo doo. It is pressure. At least you finally get it, yes sanctions could be eased.

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1 minute ago, Cryingdick said:

also because countries like Germany won't do it?

Won't do what? Send a flotilla to the Persian gulf? Why should they since in their view this whole situation came about because of Trump's imposition of sanctions.

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Just now, bristolboy said:

Won't do what? Send a flotilla to the Persian gulf? Why should they since in their view this whole situation came about because of Trump's imposition of sanctions.

They don't have a "flotilla" to send so it isn't relevant. 

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14 minutes ago, Cryingdick said:

 

Yet there is nothing meaningful in your comment even if one took the time to fully digest it.

 

You went for two wide brush comments. Both are off-mark. When called out you waffle. How unsurprising.

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Just now, Cryingdick said:

oil for rare earths. If oil goes up to $100 a barrel china is in deep doo doo. It is pressure.

So according to you, Trump has sent this flotilla to the Persian gulf to keep America's access to rare earths? Because China might embargo rare earths?

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Just now, bristolboy said:

So according to you, Trump has sent this flotilla to the Persian gulf to keep America's access to rare earths? Because China might embargo rare earths?

 

He sent the fleet to squeeze Iran, I thought it might have been pretty obvious, This is what you do if you don't want war.

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1 minute ago, Cryingdick said:

I guess you would have to give more context or a quote. 

 

Quoted you earlier.

As for "context", you didn't seem much bothered with it when making them claims.

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Just now, Cryingdick said:

 

He sent the fleet to squeeze Iran, I thought it might have been pretty obvious, This is what you do if you don't want war.

Sending the fleet is also what you do if you want to start a war. Or don't care one way or another. Or don't know enough to understand the risks of starting a war.

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5 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

Sending the fleet is also what you do if you want to start a war. Or don't care one way or another. Or don't know enough to understand the risks of starting a war.

 

Yes it gives you many options. The United States Navy has options that other countries don't. Can you explain to me how Iran, North Korea or China can bring the war to the USA?

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3 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

If China feels that threatened by the possibility of Iranian attacks on shipping, it can always buy oil from....Iran.

I guess you have never heard of a full embargo. Which is the next logical step unless we bomb their ports.

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1 minute ago, Cryingdick said:

Just complete and total obliteration would probably do it.

"And some people might be slightly more qualified than you don't think Iran is nearly as powerless to retaliate as you with your empty triumphalism do. 

Ex-Military Brass Line Up Against War in Iran

An open letter to the president reads: “A war with Iran, either by choice or miscalculation, would produce dramatic repercussions in an already destabilized Middle East and drag the United States into another armed conflict at immense financial, human, and geopolitical cost.”

These are not the words of Donald Trump’s chorus of opponents on the Hill, or left-columnists in the “opposition” press, but instead members of America’s defense establishment, cautioning against a further build-up against Iran. A twoscore group of retired admirals, generals and ambassadors say, “As President and Commander-in-Chief, you have considerable power at your disposal to immediately reduce the dangerous levels of regional tension.”

https://nationalinterest.org/feature/ex-military-brass-line-against-war-iran-60207

 

 

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47 minutes ago, Cryingdick said:

 

Yes it gives you many options. The United States Navy has options that other countries don't. Can you explain to me how Iran, North Korea or China can bring the war to the USA?

Well, they don't have to bring war to the literal USA do they? But if the US brings its forces to bear on them, then those forces are a target. Also, the US has soldiers in Iraq. And it has ships in the Persian Gulf. The Gulf is not a safe place for aircraft carriers to be.

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1 hour ago, Cryingdick said:

oil for rare earths. If oil goes up to $100 a barrel china is in deep doo doo. It is pressure. At least you finally get it, yes sanctions could be eased.

If oil goes to $100 a barrel, it won't be only the Chinese that will suffer. What price do you think Americans will be paying? And the rest of the world? What will that do for Trump's reelection chances?

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17 hours ago, Morch said:

 

The Iranian position as presented by yourself leaves almost no maneuvering room to solve the situation or even address it. If the USA (under Trump or otherwise) is not to be trusted, then even a full return to the framework of the JCPOA would be rejected.

 

As for the rest - no one could accuse Trump of having much to do with ideology. But guess Bolton would qualify, maybe Pence as well. Does it follow that these two got a better understanding of Iranian thinking?

 

Kinda doubt all Iranians are equally invested in ideology or even religion. The same applies for leadership. Some are, some aren't. Painting them all as some super resilient people or ignoring certain background not fitting the bill doesn't contribute to the value of the comment.

 

Here's another take on sanctions, resilience and leadership:

 

Iranians say their ‘bones breaking’ under US sanctions

https://www.apnews.com/9390faa746294f628b93beea57ba1e07

 

 

 

 

Though the people would no doubt love democracy, I doubt the leadership would be open to it. Pompeo and Blindfold Bolton's regime change aspirations are not connected to reality, and exist on another planet. Their "wants" for negotiation are not something Iran would agree too. Trump has been less effective with Iran, than with North Korea.

 

He cannot negotiate his way out of a paper bag. The art of not being able to make a deal to save his presidency. 

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5 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

Though the people would no doubt love democracy, I doubt the leadership would be open to it. Pompeo and Blindfold Bolton's regime change aspirations are not connected to reality, and exist on another planet. Their "wants" for negotiation are not something Iran would agree too. Trump has been less effective with Iran, than with North Korea.

 

He cannot negotiate his way out of a paper bag. The art of not being able to make a deal to save his presidency. 

 

Let's start with your post having little to do with my post, or even with your previous one. Nothing much to support the assertions made earlier, no points raised in response have been addressed. Just another rant, then.

 

I've no idea whether the Western concept of democracy is what everyone around the World is into. Parts of it, for sure. The whole package, maybe less enthusiasm in evidence.

 

It's interesting that you seem to be able to differentiate between Iran's leadership and Iranians in general in one part of your post, and then ignore the differentiation on another. So "the leadership would not be open" to democratization processes, but somehow Iran could not agree to terms (which terms these are, isn't too clear).

 

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