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U.S. arms makers see booming European demand as threats multiply


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9 minutes ago, BestB said:

GIve me some evidence Russia meddled with brexit give me credible evidence what Russia has to gained from it and make sure that credible evidence comes from other source than UK government, who has created the mess and does not know how to get out of it

 

Got to wonder if you actually don't get it or (again) pretending not to. Let's try again.

 

I am not making any concrete claims regarding Russia's alleged meddling. It is a fact that such meddling was claimed by several countries, and in relation to various elections. Whether the alleged meddling efforts were real or not is irrelevant to the fact is that European governments see this as a threat. 

 

And sorry, no - not your errand boy. Certainly not with the level of denial you engage in. All such instances made headlines, and most appeared on this forum as topics. Pretending to be ignorant of them is getting tiresome.

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3 minutes ago, BestB said:

DO you see Iran chanting death to EU? or issuing threats to EU?

 

No EU companies that do trade despite sanctions get heavily penalized. https://www.businesstimes.com.sg/banking-finance/deutsche-bank-fined-us258m-for-violating-us-sanctions

 

I never said there's this level of hostility between Iran and the EU. Merely that the EU does have issues with Iran, as opposed to your blanket "no beef" claim.

 

Not even sure what your link was supposed to demonstrate. As said before, there are consequences and penalties applied by the USA for breaking sanctions.

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9 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

Got to wonder if you actually don't get it or (again) pretending not to. Let's try again.

 

I am not making any concrete claims regarding Russia's alleged meddling. It is a fact that such meddling was claimed by several countries, and in relation to various elections. Whether the alleged meddling efforts were real or not is irrelevant to the fact is that European governments see this as a threat. 

 

And sorry, no - not your errand boy. Certainly not with the level of denial you engage in. All such instances made headlines, and most appeared on this forum as topics. Pretending to be ignorant of them is getting tiresome.

In other words you do not know and just blaming Russia for whatever pops into your mind. No need to discuss further. As i said, blaming Russia has become a fashion.

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4 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

I never said there's this level of hostility between Iran and the EU. Merely that the EU does have issues with Iran, as opposed to your blanket "no beef" claim.

 

Not even sure what your link was supposed to demonstrate. As said before, there are consequences and penalties applied by the USA for breaking sanctions.

Now you just deflecting from your initial assertions.

 

So Iran is not a threat to EU, unless US said so.

 

Just as Russia is not a threat to EU, unless US said so directly or indirectly via its puppet states like Estonia, who mind you love to keep status quo as it provides them with free NATO troops and US arms.

 

If you unsure, let me explain it for you, German bank has nothing to do with US, as i said, if US wants to put sanctions on any country, US is free to do so, but forcing and bullying other countries to follow is not ok. Just as imaginary threats from Russia and Iran. If US did not say so they would not be.

 

 

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21 minutes ago, BestB said:

In other words you do not know and just blaming Russia for whatever pops into your mind. No need to discuss further. As i said, blaming Russia has become a fashion.

 

I did not blame Russia, but cited allegations. If you have issues with said allegations complain to the various European agencies and governments which aired them. Maybe simply telling them Russia isn't a threat and it's just their imagination will do the trick.

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9 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

I did not blame Russia, but cited allegations. If you have issues with said allegations complain to the various European agencies and governments which aired them. Maybe simply telling them Russia isn't a threat and it's just their imagination will do the trick.

So a bit like spreading fake news 

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20 minutes ago, BestB said:

Now you just deflecting from your initial assertions.

 

So Iran is not a threat to EU, unless US said so.

 

Just as Russia is not a threat to EU, unless US said so directly or indirectly via its puppet states like Estonia, who mind you love to keep status quo as it provides them with free NATO troops and US arms.

 

If you unsure, let me explain it for you, German bank has nothing to do with US, as i said, if US wants to put sanctions on any country, US is free to do so, but forcing and bullying other countries to follow is not ok. Just as imaginary threats from Russia and Iran. If US did not say so they would not be.

 

 

 

I did not assert that Iran is much of a threat (at least not an immediate or high priority one) from the EU's point of view. Quite the opposite. You're making up stuff again.

 

Iran's nuclear ambitions were a threat, and if they'll be renewed, so will the threat. Iran's ballistic missile program is a threat, but not a severe one. Disruption of oil supply via the Strait of Hormuz is a threat. So not quite black and white as you're trying to paint things.

 

The Russia example doesn't follow, even if the premise with regard to Iran was correct to begin with. So "just as" doesn't apply. Iran is Iran, Russia is Russia. And Russia, whether you like it or not, is seen as a threat by European governments.

 

Yeah, I get it that you don't approve of the penalties for breaking the sanctions not being limited to USA firms. What's your point?

 

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Just now, BestB said:

So a bit like spreading fake news 

 

No, not like spreading fake news. The allegations are widespread and real enough. You wish to claim that there were no such allegations, or that they do not relate to European governments' stance toward Russia - go right ahead.

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1 minute ago, Morch said:

 

I did not assert that Iran is much of a threat (at least not an immediate or high priority one) from the EU's point of view. Quite the opposite. You're making up stuff again.

 

Iran's nuclear ambitions were a threat, and if they'll be renewed, so will the threat. Iran's ballistic missile program is a threat, but not a severe one. Disruption of oil supply via the Strait of Hormuz is a threat. So not quite black and white as you're trying to paint things.

 

The Russia example doesn't follow, even if the premise with regard to Iran was correct to begin with. So "just as" doesn't apply. Iran is Iran, Russia is Russia. And Russia, whether you like it or not, is seen as a threat by European governments.

 

Yeah, I get it that you don't approve of the penalties for breaking the sanctions not being limited to USA firms. What's your point?

 

I thought i made my point very clear.? no

 

a threat is what US says is a threat, not what the actual or even real threat is

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1 minute ago, Morch said:

 

No, not like spreading fake news. The allegations are widespread and real enough. You wish to claim that there were no such allegations, or that they do not relate to European governments' stance toward Russia - go right ahead.

Well if its real enough i asked you to provide some credible evidence and credible reasoning for what Russia has to gain by creating brexit chaos and all i got was some mumbo jumbo demagogue response

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Just now, BestB said:

Well if its real enough i asked you to provide some credible evidence and credible reasoning for what Russia has to gain by creating brexit chaos and all i got was some mumbo jumbo demagogue response

 

The allegations were real enough. They were widely reported on. They were discussed on this forum. You participated on some of these topics. Not sure why you insist on arguing the point.

 

Same goes for interests served and possible gains by Russia. Discussed to death on these topics alone, with your active participation. Don't think there's need for a rehash. If you need to refresh your memory, consult your posting history.

 

Again, the topic isn't even about Brexit.

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5 minutes ago, BestB said:

already explained myself.

 

Not really.

You seem to claim that USA sanctions on Iran are, somehow, an indication that Russia isn't seen as a threat by European governments. But do go on about mambo-jumbo, by all means....

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2 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

The allegations were real enough. They were widely reported on. They were discussed on this forum. You participated on some of these topics. Not sure why you insist on arguing the point.

 

Same goes for interests served and possible gains by Russia. Discussed to death on these topics alone, with your active participation. Don't think there's need for a rehash. If you need to refresh your memory, consult your posting history.

 

Again, the topic isn't even about Brexit.

Actually not even once did i comment on such allegations, but feel free for the third time to provide credible evidence and reasoning instead of deflecting and now making assertions on what i did and did not do

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1 minute ago, Morch said:

 

Not really.

You seem to claim that USA sanctions on Iran are, somehow, an indication that Russia isn't seen as a threat by European governments. But do go on about mambo-jumbo, by all means....

Not really when you think the only valuable  opinion is yours and no one else.

 

Russia became a threat when US said so, just as Iran became a threat when US said so.

 

US has a problem with Russia and with Iran, yet US is forcing these problems on to EU, this is not an opinion but a fact.

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2 minutes ago, BestB said:

Actually not even once did i comment on such allegations, but feel free for the third time to provide credible evidence and reasoning instead of deflecting and now making assertions on what i did and did not do

 

So basically, you say you weren't addressing my posts - which were about the allegations. All the while insisting on me providing "evidence" for something I haven't claimed. Nice.

 

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1 minute ago, Morch said:

 

So basically, you say you weren't addressing my posts - which were about the allegations. All the while insisting on me providing "evidence" for something I haven't claimed. Nice.

 

Still waiting

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3 minutes ago, BestB said:

Not really when you think the only valuable  opinion is yours and no one else.

 

Russia became a threat when US said so, just as Iran became a threat when US said so.

 

US has a problem with Russia and with Iran, yet US is forcing these problems on to EU, this is not an opinion but a fact.

 

You keep claiming that Russia and Iran were not threats before the USA "said so". Neither claim was well established in your posts.

 

The USA having issues with Russia and Iran doesn't exclude Europeans having issues with Russia or Iran as well. Not on the same level with regard to all issues, but not quite the "no beef", "no threat" claims on offer.

 

I get it you do not approve of USA sanctions being applied to non-USA firms. It doesn't quite make your argument, though.

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6 minutes ago, BestB said:

Still waiting

 

I've no idea why you're expecting me to provide "evidence" for something I did not claim. Same goes for the relevance of the "request". let's say there was no Russian meddling, but that European governments think so anyway. They would still see Russia as a threat, regardless or not if the "evidence" satisfied you or not.

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1 minute ago, Morch said:

 

You keep claiming that Russia and Iran were not threats before the USA "said so". Neither claim was well established in your posts.

 

The USA having issues with Russia and Iran doesn't exclude Europeans having issues with Russia or Iran as well. Not on the same level with regard to all issues, but not quite the "no beef", "no threat" claims on offer.

 

I get it you do not approve of USA sanctions being applied to non-USA firms. It doesn't quite make your argument, though.

Well that is an interesting twist, so it is perfectly ok for you to spread fake news and when asked for some evidence get nothing in response, but as it turns out i need to establish my claims beyond YOUR reasonable doubt.

 

Is there anything else i could do to please?

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1 minute ago, BestB said:

Well that is an interesting twist, so it is perfectly ok for you to spread fake news and when asked for some evidence get nothing in response, but as it turns out i need to establish my claims beyond YOUR reasonable doubt.

 

Is there anything else i could do to please?

 

I did not spread any fake news.

 

I have listed a number of issues which may contribute to European governments considering Russia a threat. At least one of them is mentioned in the OP itself. All the points referenced were factual, widely reported on and discussed on this forum.

 

You may disagree with the way European governments responded to some of them, or to allegations raised by the same governments. You may try and justify Russia's actions. That's all good and well - it just doesn't do anything for the argument that Russia is not a threat or that it is not considered a threat.

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3 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

I did not spread any fake news.

 

I have listed a number of issues which may contribute to European governments considering Russia a threat. At least one of them is mentioned in the OP itself. All the points referenced were factual, widely reported on and discussed on this forum.

 

You may disagree with the way European governments responded to some of them, or to allegations raised by the same governments. You may try and justify Russia's actions. That's all good and well - it just doesn't do anything for the argument that Russia is not a threat or that it is not considered a threat.

For the last time as i am getting bored with deflections and demagogue mumbo jumbo responses.

 

You claimed Russia is responsible for meddling in EU affairs, when asked to provide evidence you deflected into something else.

 

When pressed to name the country, you came up with UK

 

When asked to provide credible  evidence and reasoning, nothing but deflections

 

To make matters worse, you claimed at least twice that i had participated in some discussions about Russian meddling in UK elections/brexit

 

When asked again and again , nothing but deflections.

 

Now you claiming you never spread fake news, well if you do not have any evidence, no reference of any kind, that would make it fake news.

 

:coffee1:

 

 

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On 6/24/2019 at 8:45 AM, Tug said:

Not surprising with Donald destabilizing nato a sad fact here in the USA is we spend 54%of our tax dollars on defense and we aren’t inguaged in a major war 

 Aka , buisness stratergy , keep the shareholders happy , nothing new .

 

 

 

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9 hours ago, BestB said:

For the last time as i am getting bored with deflections and demagogue mumbo jumbo responses.

 

You claimed Russia is responsible for meddling in EU affairs, when asked to provide evidence you deflected into something else.

 

When pressed to name the country, you came up with UK

 

When asked to provide credible  evidence and reasoning, nothing but deflections

 

To make matters worse, you claimed at least twice that i had participated in some discussions about Russian meddling in UK elections/brexit

 

When asked again and again , nothing but deflections.

 

Now you claiming you never spread fake news, well if you do not have any evidence, no reference of any kind, that would make it fake news.

 

:coffee1:

 

 

 

That's not true. Hard to tell if this is about comprehension issues or intentional misrepresentation of things posted.

 

I referenced how European governments see things, and included their perceptions on alleged Russian meddling in their politics. There's no need for me to "prove" the alleged meddling is real - this is about whether Russia is seen as a threat. It's about how European governments and agencies see things, and obviously, they think there's something to it.

 

My comments were not limited to the UK. Germany, France, Italy, and the European Parliament elections were referenced as well. You're the one who focused on the UK.

 

All of these allegations are matter of public record. All of these referenced were discussed on TVF. You wish to claim you haven't participated in any? Good luck with that. Not going to bother looking up stuff for you, as you're into denying pretty much anything that doesn't fit your agenda, while constantly misrepresenting what was posted.

 

You can go on about "fake news". It's cute coming from someone who pretends not to be aware of news when it suits.

 

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