suzannegoh Posted June 26, 2019 Share Posted June 26, 2019 10 minutes ago, wilailuk said: The US will probably confiscate all gold when the SHTF.. done before: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_6102 Yes, it was done before. But not without compensation and at the time the government had more incentive to do so since the currency was on the gold standard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilailuk Posted June 26, 2019 Share Posted June 26, 2019 Compensation? They robbed the people! Bought at $20.67 - and after that the price raised to $35 - and the same thing goes on today when the taxpayers have to bail out the rotten banksters, when their Ponzi´s explode, like in 2008/9 - it will happen again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mania Posted June 26, 2019 Author Share Posted June 26, 2019 9 hours ago, wilailuk said: Compensation? They robbed the people! Bought at $20.67 - and after that the price raised to $35 - and the same thing goes on today when the taxpayers have to bail out the rotten banksters, when their Ponzi´s explode, like in 2008/9 - it will happen again. Truth is they only robbed those sad enough to knuckle under & give up their gold. Many did not But I do agree on the banksters & BS bailouts being the end of any representation of the people who elected these fools who agreed to the bailout. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
owl sees all Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 3 hours ago, mania said: Truth is they only robbed those sad enough to knuckle under & give up their gold. Many did not But I do agree on the banksters & BS bailouts being the end of any representation of the people who elected these fools who agreed to the bailout. Is it not Italy that want to force open all the people's safe deposit boxes and confiscate the goodies unless the owners voluntarily hand over a subscription? The US could raid their citizen's accounts and deposits at a whim. The FED calls the shots, and if the US needs gold, nothing will deter them IMO. Personally, I don't thing the US has much gold stored away. Those stacks of gold in Fort Knox belong to private individuals and foreign countries. Last audit; Reagan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suzannegoh Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 7 minutes ago, owl sees all said: Is it not Italy that want to force open all the people's safe deposit boxes and confiscate the goodies unless the owners voluntarily hand over a subscription? The US could raid their citizen's accounts and deposits at a whim. The FED call the shots, and if the US needs gold, nothing will deter them IMO. Personally, I don't thing the US has much gold stored away. Those stacks of gold in Fort Knox belong to private individuals and foreign countries. Last audit; Reagan. It's not nearly as important for the USGovt to have gold now as when the US Dollar was on the gold standard. IMO it is better to evaluate gold as dispassionately as one would any other investment rather than to let it get intertwined with a political philosophy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer90210 Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 Thanks to the Donald and all his quibbles with the entire world....gold and other refuge currencies like the CHF have a bright future...bitcoin also seems to do well lately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mania Posted June 27, 2019 Author Share Posted June 27, 2019 1 hour ago, owl sees all said: Is it not Italy that want to force open all the people's safe deposit boxes and confiscate the goodies unless the owners voluntarily hand over a subscription? The US could raid their citizen's accounts and deposits at a whim. The FED calls the shots, and if the US needs gold, nothing will deter them IMO. Personally, I don't thing the US has much gold stored away. Those stacks of gold in Fort Knox belong to private individuals and foreign countries. Last audit; Reagan. Had not heard that about Italy...pretty bad But another reason why whether in Italy or USA Safety Deposit boxes are not safe period. Nothing controlled by govt really is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brunolem Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 58 minutes ago, mania said: Had not heard that about Italy...pretty bad But another reason why whether in Italy or USA Safety Deposit boxes are not safe period. Nothing controlled by govt really is. There have been talks in Italy to move the country's gold reserves from the central bank's guardianship to that of the government... nothing to do with private holdings... sources for the latter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brunolem Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 1 hour ago, suzannegoh said: IMO it is better to evaluate gold as dispassionately as one would any other investment rather than to let it get intertwined with a political philosophy. Gold is not an investment, but an insurance, a kind of preservation of wealth. The main value of gold is that it... keeps its value throughout the ages, whereas paper money is bound to disintegrate sooner or later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suzannegoh Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 Gold is not an investment, but an insurance, a kind of preservation of wealth. The main value of gold is that it... keeps its value throughout the ages, whereas paper money is bound to disintegrate sooner or later. I agree to the extent that that would imply that one shouldn't expect to make a killing on gold. Simply maintaing value over time is good if you have so much money that you don't need to earn a return or if it's only a small portion of your portfolio that you're putting in gold. I'm in the latter camp, having about 10% of my money in gold at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naam Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 16 minutes ago, Brunolem said: The main value of gold is that it... keeps its value throughout the ages, whereas paper money is bound to disintegrate sooner or later. in July 1980 the price of Gold was ~USD 650.- today it's $ 1,430 = net appreciation $ 780 = average appreciation per annum 1.021% in July 1980 the 30 year US Treasury long bond yielded 14% p.a. investing $ 650 yielded $ 1,470 interest total $ 2,120.- after redemption in 2010 these $ 2,120 invested in 10 year US Treasury yielding 4.25% ($810) over 9 years total $ 2,940.- average appreciation per annum 7.3% Dow 1980 891 / DOW 2019 = 26,536; appreciation per annum 9.1% there are a zillion more possibilities to prove with facts "gold keeps its value" is a statement ad absurdum. and that applies also to the attribute "throughout the ages" which is irrelevant as investors do not live throughout ages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naam Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 3 minutes ago, suzannegoh said: Simply maintaing value over time is good if you have so much money that you don't need to earn a return or if it's only a small portion of your portfolio that you're putting in gold. I'm in the latter camp, having about 10% of my money in gold at the moment. ~7% of liquid assets in physical gold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brunolem Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 1 hour ago, Naam said: in July 1980 the price of Gold was ~USD 650.- today it's $ 1,430 = net appreciation $ 780 = average appreciation per annum 1.021% in July 1980 the 30 year US Treasury long bond yielded 14% p.a. investing $ 650 yielded $ 1,470 interest total $ 2,120.- after redemption in 2010 these $ 2,120 invested in 10 year US Treasury yielding 4.25% ($810) over 9 years total $ 2,940.- average appreciation per annum 7.3% Dow 1980 891 / DOW 2019 = 26,536; appreciation per annum 9.1% there are a zillion more possibilities to prove with facts "gold keeps its value" is a statement ad absurdum. and that applies also to the attribute "throughout the ages" which is irrelevant as investors do not live throughout ages. By cherrypicking the dates, it is possible to prove anything. What about stocks between mid 2007 and mid 2009? What about gold from 1971, the year of the closing of dollar convertibilty, to today... from 35 to 1400 dollar, a 40 fold increase? Have consumer prices increased 40 times since 1971? Don't think so... Are there people who have lived from 1971 until today? Probably quite a few... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilailuk Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 4 hours ago, mania said: Had not heard that about Italy...pretty bad But another reason why whether in Italy or USA Safety Deposit boxes are not safe period. Nothing controlled by govt really is. https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-06-25/ecb-italian-government-your-gold-ours-now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilailuk Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 2 hours ago, Naam said: in July 1980 the price of Gold was ~USD 650.- today it's $ 1,430 = net appreciation $ 780 = average appreciation per annum 1.021% in July 1980 the 30 year US Treasury long bond yielded 14% p.a. investing $ 650 yielded $ 1,470 interest total $ 2,120.- after redemption in 2010 these $ 2,120 invested in 10 year US Treasury yielding 4.25% ($810) over 9 years total $ 2,940.- average appreciation per annum 7.3% Dow 1980 891 / DOW 2019 = 26,536; appreciation per annum 9.1% there are a zillion more possibilities to prove with facts "gold keeps its value" is a statement ad absurdum. and that applies also to the attribute "throughout the ages" which is irrelevant as investors do not live throughout ages. You talk about investing, appreciation etc. ? It´s all a scam, a gigantic Ponzi scheme, nothing to do with real solid ol´ fashioned business, just a Casino, nothing else, and it will blow up very soon.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brunolem Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 34 minutes ago, wilailuk said: https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-06-25/ecb-italian-government-your-gold-ours-now This has nothing to do with private gold confiscation. Brussels is in panic mode, as usual, because the Italian government, which is not EU friendly, may get its hand on Italy's gold reserves... and maybe, the horror!!! launch a parallel currency backed by gold... If gold confiscation was to happen, it would more likely be done by the banks (hence the advice of not keeping one's gold in a bank's safe) than by the government (if there is any difference between banks and governments, banksters and mobsters). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suzannegoh Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 This has nothing to do with private gold confiscation. Brussels is in panic mode, as usual, because the Italian government, which is not EU friendly, may get its hand on Italy's gold reserves... and maybe, the horror!!! launch a parallel currency backed by gold... If gold confiscation was to happen, it would more likely be done by the banks (hence the advice of not keeping one's gold in a bank's safe) than by the government (if there is any difference between banks and governments, banksters and mobsters). Yes, but you are neglecting QAnon's role in all of this. Once The Storm comes the slate will be wiped clean and all this will be a moot point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilailuk Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 2 hours ago, suzannegoh said: 3 hours ago, Brunolem said: This has nothing to do with private gold confiscation. Brussels is in panic mode, as usual, because the Italian government, which is not EU friendly, may get its hand on Italy's gold reserves... and maybe, the horror!!! launch a parallel currency backed by gold... If gold confiscation was to happen, it would more likely be done by the banks (hence the advice of not keeping one's gold in a bank's safe) than by the government (if there is any difference between banks and governments, banksters and mobsters). Yes, but you are neglecting QAnon's role in all of this. Once The Storm comes the slate will be wiped clean and all this will be a moot point. Yes..! WWG1WGA!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naam Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 6 hours ago, Brunolem said: What about gold from 1971, the year of the closing of dollar convertibilty, to today... from 35 to 1400 dollar, a 40 fold increase? Are there people who have lived from 1971 until today? Probably quite a few... sure there are. old farts like me (now age 76) who in 1971 didn't have a pot to piss in because they just graduated from university after studying eight years serving parallel in the armed forces which paid for my studies. it took a fistful of years till i earned a top salary that made me think of investing. you have to present a realistic time span based on the fact that this forum is mostly frequented by people of an age 60 and above who as teenagers were highly unlikely to use their pocket money buying gold. Quote What about stocks between mid 2007 and mid 2009? the time span i referred to for gold and alternatives is 39 years (1980 till 2019). only the end resultat counts. anything in between is irrelevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naam Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 6 hours ago, wilailuk said: You talk about investing, appreciation etc. ? It´s all a scam, a gigantic Ponzi scheme, nothing to do with real solid ol´ fashioned business, just a Casino, nothing else, and it will blow up very soon.. "blow up very soon" is what i hear poor people muttering since decades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onera1961 Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 On 6/25/2019 at 9:13 AM, emptypockets said: Probably will make more money in drinking water in the not too distant future, as that is what wars will be fought over. True, but where do you intend to store million gallons of water for the upcoming war? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilailuk Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 7 minutes ago, Naam said: "blow up very soon" is what i hear poor people muttering since decades. Decades? It blew up in 2008/09 - but the FED morons bailed the Wall St. Gangsta´s out.. Next time they´ll probably try the same, printing trillions of easy money they can continue to play with. On the Gold side, read what a real player has to say about gold: https://goldswitzerland.com/gold-price-signals-next-global-crisis/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naam Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 2 minutes ago, wilailuk said: On the Gold side, read what a real player has to say about gold what makes you think he's a "real player"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naam Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 7 minutes ago, Naam said: what makes you think he's a "real player"? i withdraw my question as i just realised it's Egon von Greyerz who's büllshitting ignorants with rubbish such as: Quote "Since 1971 the dollar has lost 97% in purchasing power and even at today’s level, the dollar is massively overvalued." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilailuk Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 2 hours ago, Naam said: i withdraw my question as i just realised it's Egon von Greyerz who's büllshitting ignorants with rubbish such as: Oh, forgot, I´m among loads of old farts here, solly.. Your "old world" is falling apart, all you´ve learned about money in your life is a lie, howabouthat??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilailuk Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 Merrill Lynch Caught Criminally Manipulating Precious Metals Market “Thousands Of Times” Over 6 Years https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-06-25/merrill-lynch-caught-criminally-manipulating-precious-metals-market-thousands-times So maybe it´s time for us to see the real and unmanipulated price on gold then? Bankster gangsta´s ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamb00ler Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 On 6/25/2019 at 7:10 PM, Brunolem said: They don't need to "want" to devalue the dollar... the dollar has lost 97% of its value against gold since the inception of the Fed... not much left to devalue... The US Federal Reserve was created Dec. 23, 1913. The price of gold averaged about $19 in 1913. $100 in 1913 is equivalent in purchasing power to about $2,424.31 in 2016 so about $2,500 now. Adjusting the price of gold by the same ratio yields an inflation adjusted price of $475. Current gold price is roughly $1,400. Combining all those figures gives a true picture of the decline in the value of the US dollar being $475/$1400. Compared to gold the US dollar has declined ONLY 66% since the creation of the Fed. I feel much better now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suzannegoh Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 5 hours ago, wilailuk said: Merrill Lynch Caught Criminally Manipulating Precious Metals Market “Thousands Of Times” Over 6 Years https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-06-25/merrill-lynch-caught-criminally-manipulating-precious-metals-market-thousands-times So maybe it´s time for us to see the real and unmanipulated price on gold then? Bankster gangsta´s ... Is the fact that the gold market is manipulated a reason why people should invest in gold or a reason why they shouldn't? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brunolem Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 11 hours ago, Naam said: sure there are. old farts like me (now age 76) who in 1971 didn't have a pot to piss in because they just graduated from university after studying eight years serving parallel in the armed forces which paid for my studies. it took a fistful of years till i earned a top salary that made me think of investing. you have to present a realistic time span based on the fact that this forum is mostly frequented by people of an age 60 and above who as teenagers were highly unlikely to use their pocket money buying gold. the time span i referred to for gold and alternatives is 39 years (1980 till 2019). only the end resultat counts. anything in between is irrelevant. You are comparing the performances of an asset, gold, which is constantly manipuled downwards (gold paper market, outright fraud...) with an asset, stocks, which is constantly manipulated upwards (QE, ZIRP, outright fraud...). It is like watching a boxing match between a boxer doped to his eyeballs and an honest boxer, with a referee doing his best to help the former bringing down the latter... Now the question is: why is it that the bankers are so hell bent on crushing gold down if this is just an asset (commodity) with no special interest? Why not simply let the markets discover the price of gold, like that of copper or cotton for example? Of course, we all know why... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brunolem Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 Just now, suzannegoh said: Is the fact that the gold market is manipulated a reason why people should invest in gold or a reason why they shouldn't? Actually, if one is buying gold as an insurance, it is very good to see its price manipulated downwards... it allows to buy more for less... I wish they were also manipulating down the prices of health and car insurances... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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