The frustration of buying the new Accord

[eisfeld]

2 hours ago, DavisH said:

The cx-5 is new, so only expect a minor model change as the next revamp. New engines are overseas; may take a while to get them here. 

The Mazda 3 just had an update (in Thailand in about a months time), while not "all-new", it still is pretty sizeable. New suspension, new engine, new infotainment, updated design, new sound dampening etc.

 

The Mazda sales women told me they will get the Skyactive X engines in Thailand in the relatively near future.

 

I bet they will update the CX-5 with new interior as well and maybe a bigger version of the Skyactive X. That's all it really needs. It looks great outside and has plenty of space. Maybe a suspension update and NVH improvments would do it good.

[taichiplanet]

3 hours ago, eisfeld said:

The Mazda 3 just had an update (in Thailand in about a months time), while not "all-new", it still is pretty sizeable. New suspension, new engine, new infotainment, updated design, new sound dampening etc.

 

The Mazda sales women told me they will get the Skyactive X engines in Thailand in the relatively near future.

 

I bet they will update the CX-5 with new interior as well and maybe a bigger version of the Skyactive X. That's all it really needs. It looks great outside and has plenty of space. Maybe a suspension update and NVH improvments would do it good.

i've been waiting for the updated Mazda 3 before deciding what to buy. I think the new hatch has even less boot/trunk space than the old one. Heard that the Skyactiv-X spec 3 maybe cost 25% more than the Skyactiv-G! I hope not.

[MatteoBassini]

21 hours ago, CNXexpat said:

Believe the spec sheet. If you believe the seller and it´s wrong what he said, you will hear a "mai bpen rai", that´s it.

 

Generally: if the car is completely imported they can change anything - and don´t want. If the car is imported in parts (as usual) and completed in Thailand it´s the same as above. 

 

I was interested in the BMW X3 and full of hope that it will come, when the new model came out, with ventilated seats. But no, they have a useless huge panoramic glass roof but no seat cooling. More crazy: the brand new X5 is offered everywhere with the option "cooled and heated cup holder". Not in Thailand. Huge glass roof but no options they make sense in a hot country.

 

If I buy a crazy expensive car like the X3 for 3.7 mio. Baht, it must be an absolutely perfect dream car and not one where I have to put a towel on my seat that I don´t get wet trousers from sweat. Also at the 5.7 mio. Baht X5. 

That's hilarious, my 2006 Camry that I bought for 400,000 baht has ventilated seats.

[DavisH]

3 hours ago, eisfeld said:

Maybe it'll take 2 years but the Honda dealer told me they wont bother getting a CRV demo car anymore because a new one is on the horizon. Maybe 2021?

I don't expect a lot on their minor change. That may be next year. I guess the same engines and possibly and possibly the inclusion of the honda sensing package. 

[CNXexpat]

24 minutes ago, MatteoBassini said:

That's hilarious, my 2006 Camry that I bought for 400,000 baht has ventilated seats.

Wow, I am jealous. Right now you only can get some Volvo and Lexus models with these feature and also the 7er BMW and the Mercedes S Class. I bought 3.5 years ago a new Pajero Sport and I sweating so much on the seats. Bum and back become wet very quick. I really hate. So I always have a towel on my seat and a distance piece in my back.

[eisfeld]

6 minutes ago, CNXexpat said:

Wow, I am jealous. Right now you only can get some Volvo and Lexus models with these feature and also the 7er BMW and the Mercedes S Class. I bought 3.5 years ago a new Pajero Sport and I sweating so much on the seats. Bum and back become wet very quick. I really hate. So I always have a towel on my seat and a distance piece in my back.

The top spec Camry Hybrid has ventilated seats.

[eisfeld]

47 minutes ago, taichiplanet said:

i've been waiting for the updated Mazda 3 before deciding what to buy. I think the new hatch has even less boot/trunk space than the old one. Heard that the Skyactiv-X spec 3 maybe cost 25% more than the Skyactiv-G! I hope not.

The Mazda 3 is really not bad BUT the trunk space is ridicolous. One large luggage box barely fits in, at least with my neighbours hatchback. And if the new one is even smaller... Also if it's 25% more then you can already get the base Accord or Camry, can't see them trying that price level.

[CNXexpat]

17 minutes ago, eisfeld said:

The top spec Camry Hybrid has ventilated seats.

Thank you. Interesting to know but if I´ll buy a new car I want a SUV again. So I have a better look on the idiots on the streets and feel more safe. I was full of hope that the upcoming Mercedes GLB will have it. But I got the insider information, that it will have not - but a 1.3 l petrol engine. What a joke for a SUV.

[ericthai]

On 6/25/2019 at 7:32 AM, MatteoBassini said:

Sounds like you're better off buying the Camry 2.5G and swapping in a 3.5L V6 from Australia. Should be a simple process as Australia is also RHD and uses the same gearbox, I estimate the total cost of swapping the engine would be 200k baht. Dealers should have no problem servicing it because it's the same engine used in the 2006 Camry V6, which Toyota used to sell officially.

 

The Camry 2.5G has 8-way adjustable passenger seat.

 

Sales people are clueless, never ask them anything. People who know about cars and are passionate about them don't get into car sales.

importing the 3.5l engine will cost you a fortune. The bigger the engine the higher the tax rate!

[ericthai]

9 hours ago, Lacessit said:

No you don't. Buy a Benz or BMW, you'll pay 110% in import duty,

actually BMW and Benz both have factories in Thailand.

[DavisH]

12 hours ago, taichiplanet said:

i've been waiting for the updated Mazda 3 before deciding what to buy. I think the new hatch has even less boot/trunk space than the old one. Heard that the Skyactiv-X spec 3 maybe cost 25% more than the Skyactiv-G! I hope not.

The "new" mazda 3 changes will be relatively minor. There is no skyactiv X motor coming just yet. The changes to the current engine (2.0) will be minor. There's no information on the next changes to the cx-5. 

 

[DavisH]

11 hours ago, CNXexpat said:

Thank you. Interesting to know but if I´ll buy a new car I want a SUV again. So I have a better look on the idiots on the streets and feel more safe. I was full of hope that the upcoming Mercedes GLB will have it. But I got the insider information, that it will have not - but a 1.3 l petrol engine. What a joke for a SUV.

Get a diesel if you want an suv. They cope better with the weight of the vehicle. Good fuel economy too. 

[sotsira]

On 6/26/2019 at 11:14 AM, eisfeld said:

I was sure I wanted the 2.0 with 10 speed auto but they don't offer it in Thailand. Disappointing but par for the course here. Choices are 1.5 Turbo with CVT or Hybrid. I tested the 1.5 and didn't mind the engine much. Could use a bit of oomph but at least the CVT fakes gears and doesn't provide a constant droning noise. But the 1.5 is missing lots of features so my mind turned to the Hybrid. I know from Youtube videos that the Hybrid does make the constant droning noise at full throttle but I hoped under normal driving conditions that would not happen. The Hybrid does have a lot more torque down low which should be nice for city speeds.

If I were in the market for a new car atm, my concern would be

buying a car with a CVT transmission.

Being a Japanese manufacturer's trend to use CVT's across their 

range and a relatively new technology, how does anyone know 

the life span of these transmissions?

 

Main concerns would be:

Longevity and reliability compared with fixed gear A/T's.

Maintenance costs in the service schedule. oil replacement etc,, 

Warranty time & mileage for the CVT. Replacement cost?

 

From what I've researched, their's little knowledge of these 

transmissions outside of the manufacturer's, so a faulty unit

usually will be replaced and not repaired, and at a high cost to

the vehicle owner.

 

[Mansell]

On June 26, 2019 at 11:04 AM, eisfeld said:

That car is not even remotely comparable to the Accord. 91hp@6000 and 119Nm@4800 lots of oomph? We probably have very different definitions of oomph. Maybe if you compare it to a Honda Click? Heck, the Click probably out-accelerates this ????

Did you actually drive a Ciaz? As for oomph....I used to drive an Aston Martin and an electric car and a hybrid and all of those cars jump off the line. How much power do you need and where the hell are you driving it? For my book Honda's are overall boring cars in looks, styling, and a lot of the people who drive them.....nothing personal because I do not know you.

[Mansell]

On June 26, 2019 at 11:04 AM, eisfeld said:

That car is not even remotely comparable to the Accord. 91hp@6000 and 119Nm@4800 lots of oomph? We probably have very different definitions of oomph. Maybe if you compare it to a Honda Click? Heck, the Click probably out-accelerates this ????

I see one option is a turbo with the Accord....that should give it some oomph. Also the car is 1,100 pounds heavier than the Ciaz which is substantial. But the colors offered are pretty miserable. But I understand if the car rings your bell....enjoy!

[eisfeld]

2 hours ago, sotsira said:

If I were in the market for a new car atm, my concern would be

buying a car with a CVT transmission.

Being a Japanese manufacturer's trend to use CVT's across their 

range and a relatively new technology, how does anyone know 

the life span of these transmissions?

 

Main concerns would be:

Longevity and reliability compared with fixed gear A/T's.

Maintenance costs in the service schedule. oil replacement etc,, 

Warranty time & mileage for the CVT. Replacement cost?

 

From what I've researched, their's little knowledge of these 

transmissions outside of the manufacturer's, so a faulty unit

usually will be replaced and not repaired, and at a high cost to

the vehicle owner.

 

CVTs have been put into cars for something like 30 years now. I don't think one could say they are in any way new technology or that little knowledge exists. Most passenger cars probably have CVTs here, every scooter has a CVT...

 

They are pretty simple technologically. I mean, Leonardo DaVinci invented them more than 500 years ago ????

My motorcycle with a dual clutch transmission is way more complicated and I have zero worries about that.

[eisfeld]

1 hour ago, Mansell said:

Did you actually drive a Ciaz? As for oomph....I used to drive an Aston Martin and an electric car and a hybrid and all of those cars jump off the line. How much power do you need and where the hell are you driving it? For my book Honda's are overall boring cars in looks, styling, and a lot of the people who drive them.....nothing personal because I do not know you.

No I did not but I can get a pretty good idea just by looking at the spec numbers. Unless the thing has all the torque in the world down low and extremely short gearing, I just can't see how it can be described as having oomph. It has less than half the power, less than half the torque (at much higher RPM) as the Accord 1.5 base engine. And it needs to rev higher. Yes the accord weighs a bit more but it wont make up for the massive difference. And if going for the Hybrid, it has about 3 times the torque and that from idle.

 

Imho the Accord is in a different dimension in terms of looks and styling when compared to the Ciaz. Sorry if it sounds a bit harsh and you have a Ciaz. I'm sure it's a perfectly fine car, just don't think it can excite me.

[CNXexpat]

7 hours ago, DavisH said:

Get a diesel if you want an suv. They cope better with the weight of the vehicle. Good fuel economy too. 

Yes, I know and that´s my plan. But I fall a little bit in love with the upcoming GLB. But a 1.3 l petrol engine is a no-go.

[DavisH]

12 minutes ago, CNXexpat said:

Yes, I know and that´s my plan. But I fall a little bit in love with the upcoming GLB. But a 1.3 l petrol engine is a no-go.

And it would coast at least 1M more than others in its segment, not to mention the hit on resale and spare parts costs. 

[watcharacters]

On 6/26/2019 at 9:15 AM, Sydebolle said:

There are other brands ...........  When I came I had a Volvo 244 (yes, some distant past) which was not a fit car for this climate as assembled in Sweden at that time. Then I had a Toyota Crown, the dealership screwed me after they had the "booking money" of Baht 20K; arrived with seven months delay "solly Sil". A BMW was next; got tailgated and waited five months for spares. Then, a very exotic Opel came; that car spent more time at P.S.A. dealership than anywhere else as they could not find the problem (actually was an easy valve adjustment at the end). A Suzuki followed, the automatic gear box never functioned properly. A Honda was next, dealership in Pattaya = hopeless in fixing an electrical problem. Nissan sold me a CRV 18 months ago and promised an English manual which I, despite countless calls and visits, have not received until today = half the function unknown. The wife went for a Chevrolet Captiva = see gearbox issue which never got solved and we finally had to get a new automatic gear box. Ford is the latest brand, to this day I was unable to get an extra replacement key from Ford (as they cannot cut keys despite B 5300+ for the disassembled key) = got a copy.

In short, it has to do with the after sales; once the money is with them then you're history. They have not the faintest idea of customer service, latter being an attitude and not a department. But it will take light years for these ignorant idiots to understand ......... 

 

Your experiences are  really disappointing to hear,  Sydebolle.    Obviously you're not talking about a one off event.    It really addresses a fairly  common denominator often found at dealerships in Thailand.    Everyone  else may have different experiences but yours is a nightmare one to me for sure.

 

I honestly don't look forward to the next car purchase I make in Thailand if it's anything like my last one which hardly compares to your's.

 

At least I'll be better prepared mentally to expect the kind of things I encountered such as little to no concern about customer satisfaction and  likely zero car knowledge.

 

As long as I  remain in Thailand it's a guarantee I'll have to go through it again but I hope I can stay satisfied for a few more years with what I have now.

 

[CNXexpat]

23 minutes ago, DavisH said:

And it would coast at least 1M more than others in its segment, not to mention the hit on resale and spare parts costs. 

I know, but it looks so good, especially the interior, and has a good size. The resale is not a problem because the German cars lose less value over the time than the Japanese cars.

 

[sotsira]

1 hour ago, eisfeld said:

CVTs have been put into cars for something like 30 years now. I don't think one could say they are in any way new technology or that little knowledge exists. Most passenger cars probably have CVTs here, every scooter has a CVT...

 

They are pretty simple technologically. I mean, Leonardo DaVinci invented them more than 500 years ago ????

My motorcycle with a dual clutch transmission is way more complicated and I have zero worries about that.

I would say the Jap cars have been putting CVT's in for the last 

5-6 yrs and if you do some research you'll find that reliability 

has been an issue.

 

I also wouldn't compare scooter's with cars when you consider

the weight & power difference going through the transmission.

[eisfeld]

1 hour ago, sotsira said:

I would say the Jap cars have been putting CVT's in for the last 

5-6 yrs and if you do some research you'll find that reliability 

has been an issue.

 

I also wouldn't compare scooter's with cars when you consider

the weight & power difference going through the transmission.

The Japanese have been putting CVTs into their cars for much much longer. I haven't heard of many reliability issues compared to normal automatic transmissions. Do you have some stats? Nowerdays I would for example trust a Japanese CVT way more than a western dual clutch.

 

BTW congratulations, now I feel bad for defending CVTs! ????

[sotsira]

1 hour ago, eisfeld said:

The Japanese have been putting CVTs into their cars for much much longer. I haven't heard of many reliability issues compared to normal automatic transmissions. Do you have some stats? Nowerdays I would for example trust a Japanese CVT way more than a western dual clutch.

 

BTW congratulations, now I feel bad for defending CVTs! ????

This article has a lot of info and reference options about CVT's.

https://www.samarins.com/check/cvt-2.html

My concern is whether these CVT's will last the lifespan of the vehicle, when you buy a new car, you'd expect at least 150k-200k

or 10-15 yrs without any transmission problems.

[Isaanbiker]

I've got my over 20 year old Mitsu pick up which I keep in a very good technical condition.

 

   Reading thru all these new regulations and laws, I'd never buy a new car here. They don't deserve our money anymore.

 

 

 

  

[DavisH]

7 minutes ago, sotsira said:

This article has a lot of info and reference options about CVT's.

https://www.samarins.com/check/cvt-2.html

My concern is whether these CVT's will last the lifespan of the vehicle, when you buy a new car, you'd expect at least 150k-200k

or 10-15 yrs without any transmission problems.

I recall someone posting here with a nissan march with 180K kms on it. No mention of a cvt issue. My swift has 85K kms on it, no problems with the cvt. I think very early versions of the cvt had problems, like the first batch put into early honda jazzes. The cvt gearbox on my bro in laws early nissan teana gave way as well. I don't recall how many kms, but it was not a lot. 

Plenty of Thai visa members drive cars with cvts, so I'm sure they can also post how many kms they have done. 

My old civic had a regular 5 speed auto with 250K kms on it. It and the engine were still strong when I sold it. I think the key is maintenance, especially changing the fluids on a regular schedule. 

[Lacessit]

8 minutes ago, DavisH said:

I recall someone posting here with a nissan march with 180K kms on it. No mention of a cvt issue. My swift has 85K kms on it, no problems with the cvt. I think very early versions of the cvt had problems, like the first batch put into early honda jazzes. The cvt gearbox on my bro in laws early nissan teana gave way as well. I don't recall how many kms, but it was not a lot. 

Plenty of Thai visa members drive cars with cvts, so I'm sure they can also post how many kms they have done. 

My old civic had a regular 5 speed auto with 250K kms on it. It and the engine were still strong when I sold it. I think the key is maintenance, especially changing the fluids on a regular schedule. 

CVT's will be reliable IF servicing intervals for the transmission are respected, AND the premium synthetic oils required are used. In Thailand, both those conditions may not be met. The Nissan CVT in particular has a dubious reputation for reliability.

The main advantage of the older automatics with torque converter technology is they can take a lot more abuse than a CVT.

[user68677878]

with all the negative you have laid -shouldn't that make a thinking person lose interest- or is it just about big face?????

[eisfeld]

3 minutes ago, porphyry said:

with all the negative you have laid -shouldn't that make a thinking person lose interest- or is it just about big face?????

Definitely has reduced my interest by quite a bit. But not zero. Especially because there's no other car that interests me as much. Not sure what big face is supposed to mean.

[Jitar]

 

On 6/27/2019 at 3:40 PM, sotsira said:

If I were in the market for a new car atm, my concern would be

buying a car with a CVT transmission.

Being a Japanese manufacturer's trend to use CVT's across their 

range and a relatively new technology, how does anyone know 

the life span of these transmissions?

 

Main concerns would be:

Longevity and reliability compared with fixed gear A/T's.

Maintenance costs in the service schedule. oil replacement etc,, 

Warranty time & mileage for the CVT. Replacement cost?

 

From what I've researched, their's little knowledge of these 

transmissions outside of the manufacturer's, so a faulty unit

usually will be replaced and not repaired, and at a high cost to

the vehicle owner.

 

The hybrid Accord does not use a variator type CVT.  In any case reliability cannot be generalised to a transmission design.  There are examples of problems with different transmission designs including CVT, planetary autos and dual clutch transmission.