Video Trump threatens 'obliteration,' Iran calls White House 'mentally retarded'

[Morch]

12 hours ago, meand said:

No it is not. Saudi Arabia is the leading supporter of terrorists. 

 

If you listen to Iranian diplomats speak, they refer to the US sanctions on countries who do not comply with their every demand as a form of economic terrorism. I would absolutely agree with that characterization. The point here is, there is not "good" and "evil" here. That is a complete farce. The problem is, nobody is objective, and nobody seems to understand why the relationship between the countries is so bad. Iran certainly does not want a conflict. 

 

That you "absolutely agree" with Iranian positions is neither surprising nor very meaningful. 

That you assert Iran "certainly does not want a conflict" is misleading, at best.

[ThaiFelix]

9 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

I think you're having a vietnam flashback in regards to American soldiers' fighting skills. It's a volunteer military now and America has scarily good soldiers. 

Ok youre right I am a Vietnam war freak and somewhat influenced by it.  However I havnt seen any real change in the wars since.  Admittedly Vietnam had conscripts which affects determination.  However from my followings of the wars since, there seems a hell of a lot of guys who soon questioned why they are there.

[Morch]

11 hours ago, meand said:

What is our "record"? Do people really think we are "winning" wars such as Afghanistan and Syria? The only winners are war production companies. Taxpayers are losers. The inhabitants of the countries we invade are losers. 

 

Not to mention Vietnam. 

 

I do not know why on earth the US thinks they are so tough. They are not. Dropping a-bombs onto defenseless nations certainly does not make you tough. 

 

Wars are more complicated than dropping bombs and technology. Little five foot tall, untrained men beat up on the USA on the ground in Vietnam. That is where wars are won.

 

Do people really think with all the money to be made by the military industrial complex that we would not be in Iran already if it was such an "easy" winnable war? We would be in there already.

 

The fact is, we would suffer great loss. If we overplayed our hand and used atomic weapons then international attitudes would quickly turn. 

 

I would not write Iran off in a war for a second. I could not only see them winning, but I could also imagine the more probable scenarios of them outlasting and outmanuevering the USA like in Vietnam. That is why we aren't in there already. 

 

I wouldn't know what "record" you're on about. There were no claims made about "winning". And yes, lets not mention Vietnam, because that's not what the topic is about, even if some posters seem stuck in that era.

 

The rest of your rant got nothing to do with my post. That would include use of atomic weapons, or for that matter, an invasion. If you'd bother referencing my posts instead of using them as anchors for venting, you'd notice that I've said nothing in favor of such an option, plus opined that it ain't going to happen (at least not anytime soon).

 

[Morch]

11 hours ago, Kwasaki said:

The US have already moved the goalposts on that, claiming it was in international airspace as of course they would say because the whole world is American airspace. ????

 

The USA "moved the goalposts" only if one fully embraces Iran's narrative.

[Morch]

11 hours ago, meand said:

US shot down an Iranian plane with 290 people on it. All died. 

 

But, it is ok. It was an "accident". US I suppose feels privileged enough to get a mulligan or two over killing hundreds of innocents. 

 

That drone incident was another complete farce. US has even admitted it was a spy drone, obviously on a spy mission. What is there to debate on that topic?! 

 

And the USA ended up paying compensation for the incident. Obviously, for some posters, it's quite alright to  reference some aspects of past wars, but ignore others - such as Iranian attacks on tankers during the Iran-Iraq war.

 

There was never any denial that the drone was on a surveillance mission. That's what it's for. Insinuating otherwise is bizarre. Said drone did not even have to be inside Iranian airspace in order to carry out a mission. Tech is like that, sometimes.

 

 

[bristolboy]

13 minutes ago, ThaiFelix said:

Ok youre right I am a Vietnam war freak and somewhat influenced by it.  However I havnt seen any real change in the wars since.  Admittedly Vietnam had conscripts which affects determination.  However from my followings of the wars since, there seems a hell of a lot of guys who soon questioned why they are there.

Well, you are right about how their motivation is affected by misleading pretexts for going to war. And being immersed in an often hostile civilian population.

[Morch]

10 hours ago, meand said:

Let's get real here. There is a potential war looming between Iran and USA, and even US has admitted it was a spy drone. I am not criticizing your statement, just saying it is fairly easy to discern what is probably going on here. Unless there is some international treaty saying you can't destroy an aircraft that is clearly spying on you right before a potential war, which seems ludicrous. 

 

Countries have the right to defend themselves. 

 

You can't destroy aircraft in international airspace. Perhaps there are exceptions, in extreme cases, but in general, no go. If what you claim was right, the USA would have shot Russian surveillance aircraft on a pretty regular basis, for example. Same goes for other countries all over the world.

[Morch]

1 hour ago, ThaiFelix said:

Very good post thanks and I agree the US would have a major headache starting a war with Iran. 

 

Firstly the US has never fully grasped the affect determination can have in fighting a war.  Thats why they have a poor record in actually fighting a war.  US troops are not driven by determination but by propaganda and it is not long before they see through the propaganda, question why they are there and lose the desire to fight.  As in Vietnam and Afghanistan etc they merely fight to stay alive until they are allowed to go home.  On the other side their enemy is fighting for the long haul determined to fight to the death to protect their own country.

 

 

 

I wonder how long it will be before they come up with a "rubble count" as an indicator of triumph. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

"Secondly US troops dont really know how to fight.  They just send these poor immature kids out stumbling around chewing gum and smoking dope until they draw enemy fire.  Then they just run and hide and wait for air support to fight their battle by turning the place into rubble.  Victory is then declared because of some ridiculous indicator like "body count"."

 

You're either in full-auto bash mode. Misinformed. Or living in the past.

Wouldn't know that the above was even applicable then, really doubt it relates to the present.

 

 

 

[metisdead]

Some off topic posts and replies have been removed. 

[spidermike007]

13 hours ago, meand said:

No it is not. Saudi Arabia is the leading supporter of terrorists. 

 

If you listen to Iranian diplomats speak, they refer to the US sanctions on countries who do not comply with their every demand as a form of economic terrorism. I would absolutely agree with that characterization. The point here is, there is not "good" and "evil" here. That is a complete farce. The problem is, nobody is objective, and nobody seems to understand why the relationship between the countries is so bad. Iran certainly does not want a conflict. 

Thank you. How conveniently that fact is buried and forgotten by Trumps devotees. 

[spidermike007]

On 6/26/2019 at 4:43 PM, Morch said:

 

In your informed view, is the Islamic regime of Iran in the habit of highlighting and glorifying the nation's past? (As in including the parts preceding the ascent of Islam). Sounds like more of a talking point. I think the regime's focus in this regard is more to do with revisionism, but could be wrong.

 

And as much as you tout Iran and Iranians' resilience to hardship, it reads more like an armchair view, and a politically motivated one at that. Here, you're welcome to ignore it again:

 

Iranians say their ‘bones breaking’ under US sanctions

https://www.apnews.com/9390faa746294f628b93beea57ba1e07

 

Personally, I find it sickening that some have no issues with opining how others, less-well-to-do, and half across the globe, ought to face hardship in order to fulfill posters' political fantasies.

 

The USA would not collapse without Netflix, or even cornflakes. That's just your usual over-the-top baseless nonsense fare. But by all means, do go on about Trump having "no perspective".

 

I wouldn't know that Iran would be "easier than Iraq" (in what way?) or that "they" think that. Claiming a 30 year war etc., now that's quite a statement. Backed up by anything much? Doubt it.

 

And then we get the usual trademark scaremongering. Give it a rest. Iran isn't a superpower. It can do some damage, but lets not get carried away. Wouldn't know that anyone's underestimating Iran - and no support for such if offered, naturally - but I am sure, you're hyping Iran's capabilities.

Continue to underestimate Iran at your future peril. 

 

The Israeli military's outgoing cyber chief, meanwhile, has been raising alarms about Iran's cyber capabilities. Brigadier-General Noam Sha'ar told Israel Hayom that one of his division's first operational events was the detection and prevention of an attempt to infiltrate Israel's home front missile alert system. By corrupting the missile warning system, hackers could have activated false alerts.

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehill.com/opinion/cybersecurity/433431-are-we-underestimating-irans-cyber-capabilities%3famp

[Morch]

31 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

Thank you. How conveniently that fact is buried and forgotten by Trumps devotees. 

 

What "fact" would that be?

And, of course, not everyone who disagrees with you is a Trump devotee.

 

[moe666]

On 6/26/2019 at 9:45 AM, habanero said:

Iran is the world’s leading state sponsor of terrorism. Period. It has held that dubious distinction for many years now and shows no sign of relinquishing the title.

To the contrary, the regime in Tehran continues to provide hundreds of millions of dollars every year to terrorists across the world. It does this, despite ongoing economic turmoil that’s impoverishing many of its people. The beneficiaries of this misbegotten largesse range from Hezbollah in Lebanon, to Hamas in Gaza, to violent rejectionist groups in the West Bank, to the Houthis in Yemen, to hostile militias in Iraq and Syria.

So you all keep knocking what President Trump is trying to do. The big picture is not just to keep Iran from acquiring nukes. It is to basically break them of the ability to sponsor these terrorist programs.

 Let me give you some numbers. This may sound hard to believe, but Iran provides Hizballah alone some $700 million a year. It gives another $100 million to various Palestinian terrorist groups. When you throw in the money provided to other terrorists, the total comes close to one billion dollars.

 And who ultimately pays the price of this support? The Iranian people. The resources Iran uses to fund its global terrorist campaign come directly out of the pockets of ordinary Iranians. The regime robs its own citizens to pay its proxies abroad. This is not the behavior of a normal government. This is the behavior of a lawless regime that uses terrorism as a basic tool of statecraft.

What do you say about the Saudis as the majority of the bombers were from Saudi Arabia and financing has been tracted to money people there. No one denies that Iran is a problem but you really do not make it better by acting like a 3 year old

[Morch]

15 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

Continue to underestimate Iran at your future peril. 

 

The Israeli military's outgoing cyber chief, meanwhile, has been raising alarms about Iran's cyber capabilities. Brigadier-General Noam Sha'ar told Israel Hayom that one of his division's first operational events was the detection and prevention of an attempt to infiltrate Israel's home front missile alert system. By corrupting the missile warning system, hackers could have activated false alerts.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehill.com/opinion/cybersecurity/433431-are-we-underestimating-irans-cyber-capabilities%3famp

 

Continue to cherry-pick. The following line to the bit you quoted goes

 

Quote

To be sure, analysts should not inflate Iran’s capabilities.

 

It's a threat. It ought to be addressed. It's not a doomsday device. But keep up the scaremongering. If anything you're providing more reasons to see Iran as a threat - which I'd imagine isn't quite the effect you're after?

 

Anyway, always fun to see people quote article by authors who hold differing views on matters at hand. May want to look up Fixler, see what organizations she's associated with and such.

 

 

 

 

[ballpoint]

What is lost here is that shooting down one of these drones is no easy feat.  They have a crew of 3 flying them - one devoted to countermeasures, including radar jamming and deployment of a decoy when under attack, pointing to the accuracy and effectiveness with which Iran targeted it from 70km away. 

 

"The shooting down of a US Navy RQ-4A Global Hawk unmanned aerial vehicle on 20 June appears to have confirmed that Iran has developed highly capable surface-to-air missile (SAM) systems in recent years."

https://www.janes.com/article/89422/global-hawk-shootdown-validates-iran-s-indigenous-sam-capabilities

 

I think the fact that it was shot down is giving food for thought to the US military, and could even have played a part in the cancellation of a military strike on Iran.

 

Another takeaway from this incident is that there is no third party proof of where the drone was shot down.  No civilian air traffic control appears to have been tracking it, despite it being a large (wing span greater than a 737) aircraft, capable of flying at 500mph.  How many aircraft are permitted, by international law, to switch off their transponders and remain untracked in this manner?  I'd say, unless an open state of war exists, none.  this begs the question of why, if the intention of a flight is to remain in international airspace, would you want to conceal the fact that an aircraft is there?

[habanero]

14 minutes ago, moe666 said:

What do you say about the Saudis as the majority of the bombers were from Saudi Arabia and financing has been tracted to money people there. No one denies that Iran is a problem but you really do not make it better by acting like a 3 year old

Really? With a comment like that, I am thinking you are the 3 year old. Go cry elsewhere.

[Kwasaki]

3 hours ago, Morch said:

 

The USA "moved the goalposts" only if one fully embraces Iran's narrative.

Well you can't deny that Trump started this and recent news reports are reporting USA is alone on this and Iraq wants them out as they do not want USA attacking Iran from their Country.

[Morch]

5 hours ago, Kwasaki said:

Well you can't deny that Trump started this and recent news reports are reporting USA is alone on this and Iraq wants them out as they do not want USA attacking Iran from their Country.

 

Which doesn't have much to do with my post, or even your previous post which I responded to. Here it is again, just in case you're having trouble keeping track of your own words

 

https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1108369-trump-threatens-obliteration-iran-calls-white-house-mentally-retarded/page/4/?tab=comments#comment-14285070

 

Whether the drone was in international airspace or not is still contested. Asserting it was in Iran's airspace is simply embracing Iran's narrative, without much by way of conclusive evidence.

 

[Kwasaki]

3 hours ago, Morch said:

 

Which doesn't have much to do with my post, or even your previous post which I responded to. Here it is again, just in case you're having trouble keeping track of your own words

 

https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1108369-trump-threatens-obliteration-iran-calls-white-house-mentally-retarded/page/4/?tab=comments#comment-14285070

 

Whether the drone was in international airspace or not is still contested. Asserting it was in Iran's airspace is simply embracing Iran's narrative, without much by way of conclusive evidence.

 

Yeah OK USA guru expert, let's just let US nuke Iran, great Bolton gets what he always wanted.

[Morch]

2 hours ago, Kwasaki said:

Yeah OK USA guru expert, let's just let US nuke Iran, great Bolton gets what he always wanted.

 

Nothing said in any of my posts about nuking Iran. I think you're just trying to cover for your original post being off mark, that's all.

[beechguy]

11 hours ago, Kwasaki said:

Well you can't deny that Trump started this and recent news reports are reporting USA is alone on this and Iraq wants them out as they do not want USA attacking Iran from their Country.

BS as usual, from a low information poster. This has been going on a long time. P-3 squadrons and others were having to play games with the Iranians, in the Gulf, especially in the Straits. To the misinformed and ignorant, this is not just about nuclear capabilities.

[Scott]

Troll posts reported and removed.   Keep it civil.  

[meand]

US taxpayers get to head to work tomorrow to fund things like this 200 million dollar drone, which costs 50,000 per hour to fly. Fun.

 

The part about all of this that really stands out to me is the lack of outrage by the international community on sanctions. Everyone needs to read a bit on sanctions and the death tolls that mount because of them. Sanctions hurt and kill poor people, middle class people. They do nothing else. 

 

We do not seem to understand the difference between killing 1000 women and children instantly with a bomb and killing 1000 women and children over time through poor health, hunger, and starvation.

 

Sanctions like this need to be condemned and exposed in the future as the humanitarian threat that they are. The only difference between sanctions and terrorism is time. So imagine, every time the US says the the word sanctions, replace it with terrorism and see hoe those sentences work out. That would much closer to the actual truth. 

[pegman]

Got to give it to the Mad Mullahs, they were spot on with this one. 

[JetSetFvr]

Good, we want Iran to think we are mentally unstable.  Sometimes you have to square off with a bully as most bullies are pussies anyway.......all bark no bite. The only way to deal with regimes like that are to be tougher than they are and don't back down.  Trump doesn't want war.........but will if pushed. Now Iran knows we're "retarted" which to their translation means.........insane!!  Trump isn't like the other weak Presidents by far as they all gave in to their every desire derived from threats.

[JetSetFvr]

3 hours ago, meand said:

US taxpayers get to head to work tomorrow to fund things like this 200 million dollar drone, which costs 50,000 per hour to fly. Fun.

 

The part about all of this that really stands out to me is the lack of outrage by the international community on sanctions. Everyone needs to read a bit on sanctions and the death tolls that mount because of them. Sanctions hurt and kill poor people, middle class people. They do nothing else. 

 

We do not seem to understand the difference between killing 1000 women and children instantly with a bomb and killing 1000 women and children over time through poor health, hunger, and starvation.

 

Sanctions like this need to be condemned and exposed in the future as the /humanitarian threat that they are. The only difference between sanctions and terrorism is time. So imagine, every time the US says the the word sanctions, replace it with terrorism and see hoe those sentences work out. That would much closer to the actual truth. 

$50k to fly a drone an hour?  You are so off base on that one. Can you please state your source that says sanctions do as you claim?  Besides, if true, it is the Iranian Govt. that is killing them as they fail to be the good people in the first place. If they would stop with their threats to Israel and to the US and become the decent hearted people they should be, all of the sanctions will go away.  Their choice, but to take the easy way out as you wish by not putting sanctions is condoning their behavior on the world front.  The only other option is all out war to spread a message and surely you don't want this.............do you?  OR do you think we should just allow Iran to spend over a billion a year funding terror groups and threatening Israel and the US?  As an American, I'm tired of playing the role of the world police in the first place.  Who funds all of these wars?  The US taxpayers.  And what do we get in return? Not a damn thing yet the world doesn't care too much for the US now do they. They should be grateful WE keep the world as safe as we can. 

[Salerno]

31 minutes ago, JetSetFvr said:

Sometimes you have to square off with a bully as most bullies are pussies anyway

Guessing that's why they shot the drone down ... standing up to the pussy bully.

[simple1]

40 minutes ago, JetSetFvr said:

$50k to fly a drone an hour?  You are so off base on that one. Can you please state your source that says sanctions do as you claim?  Besides, if true, it is the Iranian Govt. that is killing them as they fail to be the good people in the first place. If they would stop with their threats to Israel and to the US and become the decent hearted people they should be, all of the sanctions will go away.  Their choice, but to take the easy way out as you wish by not putting sanctions is condoning their behavior on the world front.  The only other option is all out war to spread a message and surely you don't want this.............do you?  OR do you think we should just allow Iran to spend over a billion a year funding terror groups and threatening Israel and the US?  As an American, I'm tired of playing the role of the world police in the first place.  Who funds all of these wars?  The US taxpayers.  And what do we get in return? Not a damn thing yet the world doesn't care too much for the US now do they. They should be grateful WE keep the world as safe as we can. 

And of course US 'policing' is based upon altruistic motives, not national self interest.

[bristolboy]

1 hour ago, JetSetFvr said:

$50k to fly a drone an hour?  You are so off base on that one. Can you please state your source that says sanctions do as you claim?  Besides, if true, it is the Iranian Govt. that is killing them as they fail to be the good people in the first place. If they would stop with their threats to Israel and to the US and become the decent hearted people they should be, all of the sanctions will go away.  Their choice, but to take the easy way out as you wish by not putting sanctions is condoning their behavior on the world front.  The only other option is all out war to spread a message and surely you don't want this.............do you?  OR do you think we should just allow Iran to spend over a billion a year funding terror groups and threatening Israel and the US?  As an American, I'm tired of playing the role of the world police in the first place.  Who funds all of these wars?  The US taxpayers.  And what do we get in return? Not a damn thing yet the world doesn't care too much for the US now do they. They should be grateful WE keep the world as safe as we can. 

Keeping the world safe. Maybe if the USA were to equally oppose the aggressive behavior of certain Sunni regimes. You know, like Saudi Arabia. Only the US stopped it from invading Qatar. It has invaded Yemen and behaved with great brutality in its bombing crusade. And it actually kidnapped the president of Lebanon. Mohammed bin Salman leader is clearly a psychopath. And the Trump administration now proposed to sell it the technology it needs to make enriched nuclear fuel. But as Trump say, it buys lots of weapons from the USA. So it's all good.

Not to mention that these Sunni states supported Jihadis in Syria. The Syrian government is awful. The Jihadis manage to be even worse.

[Morch]

5 hours ago, meand said:

US taxpayers get to head to work tomorrow to fund things like this 200 million dollar drone, which costs 50,000 per hour to fly. Fun.

 

The part about all of this that really stands out to me is the lack of outrage by the international community on sanctions. Everyone needs to read a bit on sanctions and the death tolls that mount because of them. Sanctions hurt and kill poor people, middle class people. They do nothing else. 

 

We do not seem to understand the difference between killing 1000 women and children instantly with a bomb and killing 1000 women and children over time through poor health, hunger, and starvation.

 

Sanctions like this need to be condemned and exposed in the future as the humanitarian threat that they are. The only difference between sanctions and terrorism is time. So imagine, every time the US says the the word sanctions, replace it with terrorism and see hoe those sentences work out. That would much closer to the actual truth. 

 

US taxpayers' money was used to develop and operate such drones prior to the current administration. The Global Hawk drones been around for like 20 years or so. As for operating costs, figures cites in the link bellow are way lower than you claim (and that's a 2013 article):

 

Cost of flying Northrop's Global Hawk down over 50 percent: sources

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-northropgrumman-globalhawk/cost-of-flying-northrops-global-hawk-down-over-50-percent-sources-idUSBRE98C12220130913

 

Lack of outrage by the international community regarding sanctions? Governments and commentators spoke strongly on the matter. A few topics relating such on this forum as well. Of course, if by "outrage" you meant millions taking to the streets in global protests, that didn't happen and unlikely to happen.

 

One reason could be down to Iran not being all that popular, as countries and regimes go. Another is that the effect of sanctions (even if one accommodated the exaggerated version on offer) isn't acute. People tend to be less reactive to such. Plus the Iranian regime keeps saying it can handle the sanctions etc. (while at the same time whining about them).

 

Sanctions are "the same" as terrorist actions - in your hyperbole rhetoric.