Border bounce with denial of entry stamp

[Briggsy]

Last week, I did a border bounce at Pong Nam Ron to activate another 60-day entry on my METV.

 

The immigration officer inevitably saw my denial of entry at Bangkok followed by an entry stamp at Nong Khai.

He and his colleagues were mystified as to why I was denied entry with a valid visa 2 months before. They were equally confused as to the written reason on the stamp "ไม่มีปัจจัยยังชีพ" - no means of supporting himself. They had no record on their computer.

 

So, they passed me up the chain to the lieutenant (?) who asked why I was denied entry at Bangkok (Suwannaphum). I told him what Immigration had told me. That is "I had spent more than 6 months in one year in Thailand [on tourist visas]". The lieutenant was even more confused and turned to the colonel (?) and asked, "Is that a law?" The colonel said, "Do you mean 6 entries?" The lieutenant confirmed, "No, 6 months."

 

I was passed up the chain to the colonel who was also at a loss to understand Bangkok's actions. The colonel eventually said, "Well he has a visa. Stand there while we take your photo," and he stamped me in. He also strongly advised me (3 times!) to get a new passport and then I wouldn't have any further problems.

 

They were always professional and not hostile. They were confused by a situation that they had not encountered before.

 

From this I gather that :-

 

1. There is little or no communication between different provincial immigration offices (not surprised at that, Thai civil service is very vertical)

2. Jantaburi Immigration don't know about the Bangkok denials of entry campaign. (surprised at that)

3. Computer records are not as available, accessible and complete as some posters here make out. High-level permission may be required to gain access. (not surprised at that)

 

I hope this is of assistance.

[DrJack54]

Seriously OP, half way through reading, I thought I wonder what the punch line will be to this "joke".

However sadly its not a joke. Thai imm is.

[Caldera]

"Computer records are not as available, accessible and complete as some posters here make out"

 

I've often wondered about this, how (if at all) is a denial of entry logged into their system? We know they have several different databases; maybe a denial of entry won't be shown in the list of latest entries that a front line IO gets to see? It would obviously make sense to show it there, but then again, sense is in short supply in the officialdom.

 

Interesting report.

[scorecard]

Ever thought about getting PR, you've been here a long time.

Edited June 26, 2019 by scorecard

[BritTim]

11 hours ago, Briggsy said:

They had no record on their computer.

I am suspicious that immigration in Bangkok may not really be doing an official denial. They may be stamping the passport and telling the airline the denial is official, but in reality not wanting to leave an audit trail in the system of denial of entry to those with properly issued visas. Interesting.

[lamyai3]

18 hours ago, Briggsy said:

The immigration officer inevitably saw my denial of entry at Bangkok followed by an entry stamp at Nong Khai.

He and his colleagues were mystified as to why I was denied entry with a valid visa 2 months before. They were equally confused as to the written reason on the stamp "ไม่มีปัจจัยยังชีพ" - no means of supporting himself. They had no record on their computer.

 

So, they passed me up the chain to the lieutenant (?) who asked why I was denied entry at Bangkok (Suwannaphum). I told him what Immigration had told me. That is "I had spent more than 6 months in one year in Thailand [on tourist visas]". The lieutenant was even more confused and turned to the colonel (?) and asked, "Is that a law?" The colonel said, "Do you mean 6 entries?" The lieutenant confirmed, "No, 6 months."

 

I was passed up the chain to the colonel who was also at a loss to understand Bangkok's actions. The colonel eventually said, "Well he has a visa. Stand there while we take your photo," and he stamped me in. He also strongly advised me (3 times!) to get a new passport and then I wouldn't have any further problems.

Very amusing account, and speaks volumes about what seems to be going on at immigration in 2019.

[simon43]

.... and it's stories like this that make many of us nervous about entering the country after an overseas trip, even with a valid visa.  This uncertainly is surely leading to decisions to leave Thailand (as I have), or for new expats to not even consider coming to Thailand. 

[anchadian]

The lieutenant was even more confused and turned to the colonel (?) and asked, "Is that a law?" The colonel said, "Do you mean 6 entries?" The lieutenant confirmed, "No, 6 months."

 

And all this was in the English language?

 

Edited June 27, 2019 by anchadian

[Orton Rd]

9 hours ago, scorecard said:

Ever thought about getting PR, you've been here a long time.

Have to work three years and only 100 from your country given it a year, can take years to get.

[simon43]

6 minutes ago, anchadian said:

The lieutenant was even more confused and turned to the colonel (?) and asked, "Is that a law?" The colonel said, "Do you mean 6 entries?" The lieutenant confirmed, "No, 6 months."

 

And all this was in the English language?

 

It's not beyond the wit of man that Briggsy understands simple Thai phrases, such as shown in the quote ????

[Benmart]

15 minutes ago, simon43 said:

.... and it's stories like this that make many of us nervous about entering the country after an overseas trip, even with a valid visa.  This uncertainly is surely leading to decisions to leave Thailand (as I have), or for new expats to not even consider coming to Thailand. 

I have been here on a Non-Imm. with annual extensions. (Often refered to a Retirement Visa). I am not worried as I comply with the law, even though it may be confusing or inconsistently applied.

 

Decisions to leave Thailand are a personal matter and the experience of others has no bearing on my decision making to stay or leave, particularly from a person who has already left.

[anchadian]

5 minutes ago, simon43 said:

It's not beyond the wit of man that Briggsy understands simple Thai phrases, such as shown in the quote ????

We don't know that...

[darrendsd]

21 hours ago, Briggsy said:

3. Computer records are not as available, accessible and complete as some posters here make out. High-level permission may be required to gain access. (not surprised at that)

Yes they are - your denial was not put into the system - there is nothing unusual about that with these kind of denials at the Airport

 

I know for a fact that the head Officer at the Kanchanaburi border has the Password for the main Immigration database so I would imagine all senior officers at every checkpoint throughout Thailand does also - it would make sense that they do have it

 

The Officers there were confused because there is no such law regarding the 6 months in a year and your denial was not put in the system

[overherebc]

13 minutes ago, darrendsd said:

Yes they are - your denial was not put into the system - there is nothing unusual about that with these kind of denials at the Airport

 

I know for a fact that the head Officer at the Kanchanaburi border has the Password for the main Immigration database so I would imagine all senior officers at every checkpoint throughout Thailand does also - it would make sense that they do have it

 

The Officers there were confused because there is no such law regarding the 6 months in a year and your denial was not put in the system

There was a good few years ago but it was taken off the books. Maybe the word hasn't filtered down yet to some areas.

[visarunner]

Denial of entry is not even put in the remark section of IO. These guys at airport or Poi Pet make up their own set of rules. Sadly.  

[Matzzon]

11 hours ago, scorecard said:

Ever thought about getting PR, you've been here a long time.

Oh, yes! And pay another 200K. Very cost effective advice to a guy that stays on TV´s.

[ubonjoe]

1 hour ago, overherebc said:

There was a good few years ago but it was taken off the books. Maybe the word hasn't filtered down yet to some areas.

A lot more than a few years ago if ever. I have never heard of their actually being one for tourist visa entries.

I think a lot of people mix up the long rescinded (2008) 90 days in 6 months rule for visa exempt entries.

[overherebc]

2 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

A lot more than a few years ago if ever. I have never heard of their actually being one for tourist visa entries.

I think a lot of people mix up the long rescinded (2008) 90 days in 6 months rule for visa exempt entries.

Just interpretation, that works out at two periods of 90 days in two 6 month periods is 180 days in 360.

[Briggsy]

3 hours ago, anchadian said:

The lieutenant was even more confused and turned to the colonel (?) and asked, "Is that a law?" The colonel said, "Do you mean 6 entries?" The lieutenant confirmed, "No, 6 months."

 

And all this was in the English language?

 

No, in Thai, which I speak very well.

[Briggsy]

12 hours ago, scorecard said:

Ever thought about getting PR, you've been here a long time.

Yes, thought about it but as you can probably guess, I never qualified but was close once.

[ubonjoe]

47 minutes ago, overherebc said:

Just interpretation, that works out at two periods of 90 days in two 6 month periods is 180 days in 360.

But that was only for visa exempt entries not tourist visa entries. And the only limit on visa exempt entries now is at land border crossings.

As far as I know there never has been a limit of how long you can stay in the country using tourist visas.

[Briggsy]

2 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

But that was only for visa exempt entries not tourist visa entries. And the only limit on visa exempt entries now is at land border crossings.

As far as I know there never has been a limit of how long you can stay in the country using tourist visas.

This is, of course, correct.

 

And that is why the colonel, who came late to the conversation and only heard "6 months" and "denial of entry" assumed the young lieutenant had got mixed up with 6 visa exempt entries creating a flag on the system.

 

And that is also why everybody, including the colonel, was confused over the decision by Suwannaphum to deny me entry when I was holding an METV. Since there is no legal limit to how long one can stay having qualified for and paid for tourist visas, they had no idea under what statute, police order or other reasoning I had been denied entry. The stated reason about no means of supporting myself made no sense to them.

[Caldera]

Just goes to confirm that certain immigration officers at Aranyaprathet, BKK and DMK have gone rogue and that their denials have no actual basis in either immigration law or orders coming all the way from the top. Just their own local and nonsensical interpretation thereof.

 

Coincidentally, I recently got stamped in by a very polite female (!) IO at another friendly land border, coming in on my umpteenth visa exempt (but in compliance with the 2 per year at land borders limit, of course) and with plenty of Thai stamps and visa in my passport - no questions asked whatsoever.

[BritTim]

3 hours ago, overherebc said:

There was a good few years ago but it was taken off the books. Maybe the word hasn't filtered down yet to some areas.

There was never a six month rule, and there was never a rule of any kind limiting time in Thailand when entering with tourist visas. A bit over a decade ago, for a short period, there was a rule limiting to 90 days the time you could spend in Thailand specifically on visa exempt entries during a six month period. Immigration at most land crossings know nothing about any six month rule because they only read the official police orders. I am aware that some dubious websites claim this rule (or some variant of it) exists, but it is not an official rule.

[overherebc]

1 minute ago, BritTim said:

There was never a six month rule, and there was never a rule of any kind limiting time in Thailand when entering with tourist visas. A bit over a decade ago, for a short period, there was a rule limiting to 90 days the time you could spend in Thailand specifically on visa exempt entries during a six month period. Immigration at most land crossings know nothing about any six month rule because they only read the official police orders. I am aware that some dubious websites claim this rule (or some variant of it) exists, but it is not an official rule.

My post was only pointing out that when the 90/180 rule was in force it could be interpreted as 180/360.

eg stay Jan/feb/march go home until end of june then come back jul/aug/sep. Total six months in one year.

Interpretations will vary of course.

[scorecard]

4 hours ago, Briggsy said:

Yes, thought about it but as you can probably guess, I never qualified but was close once.

Sorry to hear that, please keep trying to get the needed years of WP and taxes receipts, in the long run well worth it, no more annual in / out border runs / applications for annual stuff, no 90 day reporting and no TM30.

 

Good luck with it.

[lkv]

19 minutes ago, scorecard said:

Sorry to hear that, please keep trying to get the needed years of WP and taxes receipts, in the long run well worth it, no more annual in / out border runs / applications for annual stuff, no 90 day reporting and no TM30.

 

Good luck with it.

https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1103209-thai-elite-visa-application-rejected-for-accidental-2-day-overstay/?do=findComment&comment=14189869

 

"The only bonus you have there is you can get theoretically a PR after paying income tax for 3 years at least. But my friends PRs all got declined recently so i wouldn't count at that anyway..."

 

 

Edited June 27, 2019 by lkv

[my friend I]

On 6/26/2019 at 11:37 AM, Briggsy said:

They had no record on their computer.

May not be relevant but a few years ago I entered at a land border where they put the wrong date in my passport. I went to Bluport office in Hua Hin to sort it out. They said they could not access the system from their computer there at Bluport and I should go up to the other office near the airport. I thoght at the time that that was a bit hard to understand but what do I know.

[OutofSiam]

4 hours ago, Caldera said:

Just goes to confirm that certain immigration officers at Aranyaprathet, BKK and DMK have gone rogue and that their denials have no actual basis in either immigration law or orders coming all the way from the top. Just their own local and nonsensical interpretation thereof.

 

Coincidentally, I recently got stamped in by a very polite female (!) IO at another friendly land border, coming in on my umpteenth visa exempt (but in compliance with the 2 per year at land borders limit, of course) and with plenty of Thai stamps and visa in my passport - no questions asked whatsoever.

 

I had a similar experience with a male IO at a land border a couple days ago. Was joking and laughing with me and his colleague the entire time. It was my second land entry this year, so he pointed that out nicely, but let me know that it wouldn't be a problem to add tourist visas on top.

 

Keep in mind that I've likely been here a little "too long" by the standards of the BKK airport officials.

[balo]

Anyone who is not a genuine tourist, will be at risk being questioned and harassed by the IO. It doesn't matter if you worked here legally for 20 years,

It's like they ask us to leave the country and never return, no wonder most people are fed up.