Johnson warns EU against any 'Napoleonic' tariffs in no-deal Brexit

[BritManToo]

31 minutes ago, puipuitom said:

Thanks to the USA and the Soviet Union... 

I'm sure Trump and Putin would be happy to help us again.

[grumpy 4680]

38 minutes ago, stephenterry said:

Quite right. We need a PM who has sufficient gravitus and a grasp of the immense difficulties that would arise in this role. Unfortunately, Boris will be found out to be left wanting...  

         Oh, come on, your  be wanting Corbyn next.

[stephenterry]

11 minutes ago, grumpy 4680 said:

         Oh, come on, your  be wanting Corbyn next.

Nah. I want to experience Boris making a complete pig's ear of it before getting deposed, and then the GE after. Interesting times ahead...

[puipuitom]

7 hours ago, whimsicalmike said:

Does anybody know the reason for paying the EU 39 billion pound exit fee. What is it supposed to pay for?

Time to search on Internet with Google like: "uk divorce bill explained". It is NOT an exit fee, but the UK's share in Mutual commitments from the past.

Some things are done together in the EU, like EFSA, RASFF, CE, EMA and a LOT more.

The UK signed a LOT of long time agreements, they now want to walk away.

Why Brexiteers canniot do this themselves ? Same reason as because they follow liers liek Boris and Nigel ?  What a nation...

https://researchbriefings.parliament.uk/ResearchBriefing/Summary/CBP-8039

https://fullfact.org/europe/eu-divorce-bill/  

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brexit_divorce_bill

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-divorce-bill-what-is-eu-leave-theresa-may-vote-commons-labour-conservatives-a8698056.html

[stephenterry]

2 minutes ago, puipuitom said:

Time to search on Internet with Google. It is NOT an exit fee, but the UK's share in Mutual commitments from the past.

Some things are done together in the EU, like EFSA, RASFF, CE, EMA and a LOT more.

The UK signed a LOT of long time agreements, they now want to walk away.

And this would be a migraine for the government should a no-deal be driven through parliment. Ergo, you cannot leave without consequences. And without any plan as to deal with it.

[Pique Dard]

i'm sick and tired of this non-ending-brexit-boris-stuff with new and contradictory details daily!

[the guest]

If the "hard" BREXIX happens it has been predicted that the UKP will crash by at least 10% of its value. The economy will also take a nose-dive since most core business are owned by foreign investors.

 

EU are in a very strong position, and they are holding all the cards. If high tariffs are imposed on British exports, then the country is in serious trouble.

 

EU doesn't have to engage with the UK at all until it settles its bill, and sort out the backstop. 

[puipuitom]

40 minutes ago, grumpy 4680 said:

    Don't forget it was a World War, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, India etc, etc. etc.

    When they are more concerned about Britain.

Yes, helps a lot...  The hundereds of millions of the USA ( + their Industrial capacity) and Sovjet Union ( sent massively to their deaths) compared by the millions of Canada , Australia and.. especially… New Zealand. You forgot the British Bahamas… and the Free French, especially in Africa + Polish forces, so criminally and treacherously sacrified at Arnhem and South-West Netherlands by the Brits.

[stephenterry]

1 minute ago, the guest said:

If the "hard" BREXIX happens it has been predicted that the UKP will crash by at least 10% of its value. The economy will also take a nose-dive since most core business are owned by foreign investors.

 

EU are in a very strong position, and they are holding all the cards. If high tariffs are imposed on British exports, then the country is in serious trouble.

 

EU doesn't have to engage with the UK at all until it settles its bill, and sort out the backstop. 

Debated already. A dearth of agreement on these issues. The bottom line is that the UK government has NO PLAN in place to mitigate the economic disaster from leaving. Zilch.

[puipuitom]

6 hours ago, grumpy 4680 said:

       Why can't we just return to how it was before we entered the common market, so we can tear up the pathetic EU laws, If Ireland and Scotland don't like it, Dump them, England would be better off looking after its self, as its the English tax payer that supports them.

yes, and go by sailing ship again… and two-horses carriage...

[puipuitom]

6 hours ago, grumpy 4680 said:

    If the EU wants to start a trade war, so be it, we either buy or don't buy, It's up to the fat cat bosses to get off there backsides, and earn their salaries finding new markets, (they have had 3 years to prepare), and as for the car industries, so what, if the greens have their way, cars will become extinct anyway, britain could always do what the Germans did, and build a peoples car, that runs on Hydrogen, Then there would be NO smelly exhaust fumes, or billions of toxic batteries to be disposed of eventually if cars all go electric

And which German / Japanese / Chinese car maker has to do that in the UK, as.. British car makers… hardly exist. Thanks to redicoulous demands of the Unions all went bankrumpt ( same attitude as now Brexit) and were sold to foreign car makes. See German Mini.. leaving for Borne-NL or Honda, returning to Japan. Even Bentley and Rolls Royce are German , see 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automotive_industry_in_the_United_Kingdom

The UK is still the engine manufacturer, till 31 Oct, when the WTO-import duty tariffs come in place, so + 10% = bye,  https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/may/30/uk-car-production-plunges-amid-untold-damage-of-brexit-chaos and  https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/jan/31/british-car-production-slumps-to-five-year-low  and 

https://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/dds2/taric/taric_consultation.jsp?Lang=en&Taric=8700000000&Expand=true&Area=&SimDate=20190627&GoodsText=&OrderNum=&StartPub=&EndPub=&Regulation=&LastSelectedCode=

What do you as manufacturer do, when you plant to leave a market = Br-exit? yes, you stop with investments. see 

https://www.ft.com/.../b02e7342-24a2-11e9-8ce6-5db4543da632

  and 

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-47055188

 

Just a few years, and there will be only capacity to make 2-horses carriages… 

 

[billd766]

3 hours ago, Loiner said:

Some of the finest legal minds in the country say there is no legal obligation to pay a penny.

But they don't know as much as either AlexRich or petemoss. The finest minds of the Brexit threads on TVF. ????

[billd766]

2 hours ago, JonnyF said:

So did Gunther Oetthinger, the EU budget chief. But the TV Remainers know more than him apparently.

 

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1140103/Brexit-news-UK-EU-Brexit-bill-budget-Boris-Johnson-next-prime-minister-update

 

 

 

Thank you for that information. I knew that I had read it somewhere but I couldn't remember where.

[Mavideol]

1 minute ago, billd766 said:

Thank you for that information. I knew that I had read it somewhere but I couldn't remember where.

what about the famous UK gentleman's agreement

noun

an agreement that, although unenforceable at law, is binding as a matter of personal honor.

[billd766]

1 hour ago, stephenterry said:

Quite right. We need a PM who has sufficient gravitus and a grasp of the immense difficulties that would arise in this role. Unfortunately, Boris will be found out to be left wanting...  

So what does that make Teresa May after 3 YEARS of trying?

[brokenbone]

1 hour ago, vogie said:

That is very disrespectfull to all our families who lost loved ones, shame on you.

only if all your families were delusional, which i doubt

[billd766]

7 minutes ago, Mavideol said:

what about the famous UK gentleman's agreement

noun

an agreement that, although unenforceable at law, is binding as a matter of personal honor.

A gentleman's agreement is fine if both parties are honest and it is between the two of them but TM did NOT have the right to commit the UK to the payment on her own. It has to go to parliament for ratification where it was rejected 3 times.

 

FYI

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gentlemen's_agreement

 

A gentlemen's agreement or gentleman's agreement is an informal and legally non-binding agreement between two or more parties. It is typically oral, though it may be written, or simply understood as part of an unspoken agreement by convention or through mutually beneficial etiquette. The essence of a gentlemen's agreement is that it relies upon the honor of the parties for its fulfillment, rather than being in any way enforceable. It is, therefore, distinct from a legal agreement or contract.

 

I have put the emphasis on the last 2 sentences.

[Mavideol]

2 minutes ago, billd766 said:

A gentleman's agreement is fine if both parties are honest and it is between the two of them but TM did NOT have the right to commit the UK to the payment on her own. It has to go to parliament for ratification where it was rejected 3 times.

 

FYI

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gentlemen's_agreement

 

A gentlemen's agreement or gentleman's agreement is an informal and legally non-binding agreement between two or more parties. It is typically oral, though it may be written, or simply understood as part of an unspoken agreement by convention or through mutually beneficial etiquette. The essence of a gentlemen's agreement is that it relies upon the honor of the parties for its fulfillment, rather than being in any way enforceable. It is, therefore, distinct from a legal agreement or contract.

 

I have put the emphasis on the last 2 sentences.

 let's wait and see how they will honor TM commitment

[puipuitom]

5 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

The 39 billion hasn't had the calculations explained in detail, nor have the assets to be provided to the UK been details AFAIK. 

You mean: was not willing to find it out in the many publications you can find on Internet. See also another comment of mine.

[Loiner]

16 minutes ago, Mavideol said:

what about the famous UK gentleman's agreement

noun

an agreement that, although unenforceable at law, is binding as a matter of personal honor.

It's something you wouldn't understand, but then again neither do the UK Remainers. Can any Remainers to our friend how a gentleman's agreement would be related to the David Cameron (and govt) promise about the referendum? How both about the CON and LAB manifestos to Leave the EU?

[Loiner]

12 minutes ago, Mavideol said:

 let's wait and see how they will honor TM commitment

Don't wait for too long, because she isn't a gentleman and we've ditched it already.

[Loiner]

10 minutes ago, Mavideol said:

and I thought he was being sued over these lies 555.....liar, liar burn on fire

They tried but the case was quickly kicked out of court. 555....off to the Premiership with you Boris.

[Mavideol]

1 minute ago, Loiner said:

Don't wait for too long, because she isn't a gentleman and we've ditched it already.

still, she acted on behalf of the country didn't she, regardless if gentleman's or gentlelady's she committed to a deal or are you trying to imply that any and all deals she made will not be honored because she quit, not ditched, (she won the confidence vote, thus not ditched) she quit or she resigned  big difference

[Mavideol]

3 minutes ago, Loiner said:

They tried but the case was quickly kicked out of court. 555....off to the Premiership with you Boris.

not so fast my friend, still has to explain his burst and that will not be an easy one 555

[puipuitom]

4 hours ago, grumpy 4680 said:

     Of course it can, if there are considerable assets to consider, Mays asses of  negotiators were too quick to come up with a figure, just to keep Brussels happy.

Just see in Google with "assets of the European Union ", take off multi-annual commitments and… it brings you to the "devorse" bill of 39 Billion pounds,.

 

Searching on Internet and calculations are not the strongest points of Brexiteers

 

[puipuitom]

4 hours ago, Loiner said:

Some of the finest legal minds in the country say there is no legal obligation to pay a penny.

Every lunatic in the EU knows, when you commit yourself, you have to do so. If not.. the opposite will remember that a very long time, and will wrap that under your knowse when you ever need them. Weather there is any court, where a Judge can give a verdict about this, is of no interest.

[puipuitom]

4 hours ago, Vacuum said:

How did UK managed before the 'invention of EU'?

Disasterous, remember the beginning of the 70's.

Search on Google with "Economic situation of the UK before joining the european Union " e.g.:  https://www.quora.com/What-was-the-UK-like-before-joining-the-EU or  https://www.ft.com/content/202a60c0-cfd8-11e5-831d-09f7778e7377  

Longer ago: use their gun boats of theri army ( Kitchiner, Gordon) to take whetever they wanted. ( ask the Boers in Natal and Orange Free State )

[puipuitom]

3 hours ago, luckyluke said:

Does that mean that  the successor of Mr. Johnson (assuming he becomes P. M.) can eventually withdraw the decisions made by Mr. Johnson; and so further on. 

means.. the sigfnature of a British PM is even not worth the ink spent on it.

I tought a British commitment would last only 20 years, see the Good Friday Agreement.. 

[nkg]

10 hours ago, stevenl said:

They don't pay them, the consumer pays them. And with considerably more dependence of UK on exports to EU than the other way round you have a clear disadvantage there.

 

The UK has a trade deficit with the EU.

 

Quote

The EU, taken as a whole is the UK's largest trading partner. In 2017, UK exports to the EU were £274 billion (44% of all UK exports). UK imports from the EU were £341 billion (53% of all UK imports). ... A surplus of £28 billion on trade in services was outweighed by a deficit of -£95 billion on trade in goods.

 

https://researchbriefings.parliament.uk/ResearchBriefing/Summary/CBP-7851

 

 

 

[billd766]

28 minutes ago, Mavideol said:

 let's wait and see how they will honor TM commitment

TM had no right to commit the UK without consulting parliament which she only did this year, 3 times and 3 times it was rejected by parliament. That means there was NO written and signed agreement and what was not signed for cannot be committed to.

 

As a Brexiteer I have no objection to a financial settlement, however IMHO that means a fully audited agreement on who owes what and that firstly has to be audited and accounted for by an independent company, preferably Switzerland, and then agreed line by line for each article.

 

If there is a disagreement, put that one one side and complete the whole bill. Then pay that part of the bill and go back to the uncompleted items and deal with each one in turn.

 

Do NOT accept Mrs May's guesstimate but get a complete and signed off audit  of all the things that affect the UK and the EU before any agreement which must then go back to the UK parliament for ratification. If they agree then fine but if the EU want the guesstimate then play the guesstimate game back to them.