Son Being Held Up North By Wife's Family

[woogoo]

I'm sure I'm not the first person this has happened to so I was hoping someone here could provide some advice. My wife and I are still married but separated at the moment. I am in the States and she is in Thailand. My son was with me here in the States after my wife left to return to Thailand. She returned in April to visit him and begged me to let her take him back to visit family and that I could get him in a few months. I stupidly agreed. I know, that may be the mistake that costs me my son. I digress, she has since holed him away with her grandparents and mom up in the Udon Thani while she works in Bangkok, she is a graphic designer so she has a respectable job. However, she's since been telling me that she is seeing someone else and want's a divorce and doesn't love me anymore. The usual. What I want to know is, what are my options and does anyone here know of any reputable attorneys who I can work with that won't go to mom for a high cut to screw over a foreigner. I've heard some horror stories from people. The child is currently 1 1/2 years old so is too young to have input where he wants to stay. They aren't abusive to him, that I know of, but he is being treated like a little animal and not being provided with proper education as he was here in the States. They don't use a car seat and let him do many things that would here be considered dangerous and neglectful. He has dual passports but was born in Bangkok.

[swissie]

Have you (so far) been asked for financial monthly "Child-Support"?
Inspite of the "stable-employement" of wife, how wealthy is "the Thai-Family? Very important!
- If "Family" & Wife can not be considered "wealthy", the child is likely to be held "for ransom". The more interest you show in the well-being of the child, the higher the "ransom" will be.
Harsh, but show as little interest in the child as possible in the near future. This way you lower the "ransom".
- To persue this matter by going thru Thai-Courts is not advisable. A united "Thai-Family" will find a 100 ways to declare you as the "most unfit father in the world".

Put on a Poker-Face. Show diminished interest in the well-being of the child. This way the "ransom-sum" will get less and your "bargaining-power" will increase. To take the matter to a Thai-Civil court will cost you plenty, take a long time with very questionable outcome.
According to the basic facts you supply, best advice you will be able to get. The Thai-Legal System varies greatly from what we grew up with. We are not in Kansas anymore. For better or for worse.

[Puchaiyank]

I stupidly agreed.

 

Can't be fixed!

[cooked]

7 hours ago, swissie said:

Have you (so far) been asked for financial monthly "Child-Support"?
Inspite of the "stable-employement" of wife, how wealthy is "the Thai-Family? Very important!
- If "Family" & Wife can not be considered "wealthy", the child is likely to be held "for ransom". The more interest you show in the well-being of the child, the higher the "ransom" will be.
Harsh, but show as little interest in the child as possible in the near future. This way you lower the "ransom".
- To persue this matter by going thru Thai-Courts is not advisable. A united "Thai-Family" will find a 100 ways to declare you as the "most unfit father in the world".

Put on a Poker-Face. Show diminished interest in the well-being of the child. This way the "ransom-sum" will get less and your "bargaining-power" will increase. To take the matter to a Thai-Civil court will cost you plenty, take a long time with very questionable outcome.
According to the basic facts you supply, best advice you will be able to get. The Thai-Legal System varies greatly from what we grew up with. We are not in Kansas anymore. For better or for worse.

In my experience (similar "kidnapping" case, also threatened abduction after court decision) the family courts really do have the best interests of the child in question. This brings it down to money, how far is the family prepared to go to keep the child, how much patience do you have?

Traditionally, a boy goes to live with the mother ('s family) a girl goes to the father, and this is the fall back position in case of disputes unless the courts intervene. You would need to demonstrate that you can better look after the child , possibly your paternity will be disputed and have to be proved etc etc.

Good luck, been through that and won, can be done.

 

[1FinickyOne]

He is 1.5 yrs old - who else should be raising him than family - you are away - your wife is working... how much proper education is there for an infant anywhere - they need to be raised by family and I think you are a bit hyperbolic as it sounds like he is receiving the same rearing as every other typical child in the village. You should be happy someone is raising the child as you seem to be away... 

 

 

On 6/26/2019 at 8:16 PM, woogoo said:

being treated like a little animal and not being provided with proper education as he was here in the States.

[elcaro]

22 minutes ago, kenk24 said:

as it sounds like he is receiving the same rearing as every other typical child in the village.

https://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/world-health-review/thailand-vs-united-states

 

That is exactly his problem. 

[BobBKK]

Unbelievable! you 'agreed' with a Thai? sorry mate but you made yourself a bed of misery when you needn't have. Now that's done you need to suck up your terrible mistake and live with it. Hopefully as he gets older he'll try and find you, but expect your ex and family to feed him undiluted bile regarding your character etc.

[Thingamabob]

Really big mistake I'm sorry to say, however I am sorry this has happened to you and to your son. Best thing is to express little interest for now, but plan for a visit to Thailand in due course with a view to meeting up with your son and your wife to try to resolve this issue. I can't come up with a cast iron solution.

[justin case]

no valid help for the guy... but this is TV ...

 

watch out for LAWYERS that promise you miracles and charge their weight in gold...

 

some ask 100.000+ plus before moving their little finger, promise you things and end up with peanuts... guess who got better from the deal ...

 

the child is 1.5 years, so did not go to school in USA... so in thai law, there is no kidnapping

 

how attached are you to this ex-wife and child ?

 

is it your first and only ?

 

this mind end up costing you more than you are willing to pay , lawyers, court, bribe to your wife to buy back your kid if you pay enough...

[TheFishman1]

If it was me in your shoes I come to Thailand give a high ranking Cop a big brown envelope and let the cop go and get your son it’s cheaper then a lawyer and immediately do a border crossing TIT

[shy coconut]

29 minutes ago, TheFishman1 said:

If it was me in your shoes I come to Thailand give a high ranking Cop a big brown envelope and let the cop go and get your son it’s cheaper then a lawyer and immediately do a border crossing TIT

Is there some kind of data base for high ranking cops open to bribes?

 

What do you do, go into a police station and ask to see such an officer, or

do they advertise their services?

 

 

[4MyEgo]

You don't need to live in one country and your wife to live in Thailand with your son for you to go through hell, it can happen in any country.

 

What you have to realise right NOW, is that you have NO CONTROL and you NEVER WILL, and if you want to pursue this, it is going to cost you an arm and a leg which could be better spent on your son's future education amongst other things.

 

The fact that you love and miss your son is normal, but to what financial expense do you go to without a win, which we know will be a long agonising painful wake up call, and another loss which can all be avoided if you can put up that emotional wall and think outside of your emotions.

 

In a high % of marriages there will be the failed marriage with kid/s, then its what to do with these pets, the (kids), who ends up growing with which parent or which grandparents, the fact of the matter as another poster said, family is best at raising the kid/s. 

 

I am talking from experience as my x left me when our daughter was 18 months old, yep swept the rug from under my feet, ouch that hurt, our daughter is now 22 years of age, she is as balanced as any kid growing up in a family environment, and although I did have her a couple of days a week, it wasn't quality time spent with her due to my work commitments and trying to survive, or I suppose you could say it was rushed, i.e. taking her to swimming lessons or Taekwondo lessons after picking her up from school, life's a beach at times, things don't work out, yes I feel robbed of the time I could have had with my daughter, but the fact of the matter is her grandparents and mother did a good job in raising her, and I recall at the time, that I felt left out, she was also my daughter, but one also has to look at the reality of it all.

 

I have two daughters with my current wife of 12 years and I spend little time with them as they go to school, have homework, etc, etc, I have been retired for 4 years but always have things to do and am always trying to make a crust as opposed to relying on my nest egg. I suppose the only real time I have with them is on the weekends when we are out, or when on holidays, besides they enjoy each others company more one could say as opposed to cranky old daddy ????

 

What I am trying to say is spare yourself the grief your about to enter, your x has the pawn (your son), the power over you, she is in Bangkok working, the grandparents are raising the kid, regardless of what you think, the kid will survive and grow, and as cruel as this may sound, e.g. the same way as a puppy dog in a soi survives, he has a mother who is working to support him, he has grandparents that are willing to raise him, yes you and I wouldn't have it, but it's out of your and my control and you must move forward as quick as the Road Runner.

 

If your x isn't holding him as ransome and is a decent women, then support her to raise your son, it can't be all that bad, i.e. if she is a good mother and would use your funds to go towards the kid.

 

The only thing you can do is try to stay civil with your x, it didn't work out, she took her son back without your permission, well she probably knew the answer if she asked you if she could take him back to Thailand, could you imagine if she was in Thailand and your son was in the states, she would feel as you do right now, so she outsmarted you to get her son back, accept it and learn from it, and if I can be blunt, she probably did you a favor if your a full time worker, raising kids is best suited to fit mothers, I say that with respect, as I couldn't do it, my wife handles it like a marathon runner, no ifs or buts, just does it.

 

Look at making a plan to visit the kid annually, look at setting up funds for his education, strictly paid into the schools account, look at sending the kid clothes or if you trust your x enough as I said earlier, send her a monthly amount to buy the kids things he will need, like clothes, maybe even look at taking out private health insurance for the kid, or you can do what most Thai men do, and just disappear, hopefully that won't be the case for the little fella, but don't be a doormat and let your x wipe the floor with you either, just try to reach an agreement and stick to it, avoid confrontation, because it's going to be hard if you can't, the kid is not yours, he is not hers, he belongs to both of you and if both parents can't share the "toy" responsibly, the one who has the toy most, will keep the toy, so that means you will always lose, be smart, think about every move you make and just accept the fact that he won't be living with you, and accept the fact that he will spends most of his time with his grandparents, maybe until your x moves in with her new partner, or maybe the kid will stay with the grandparents, if he moves in with the new partner, hopefully he can be a caring one and raise him well, as I do my wife's twin boys as their father flew the nest when they were just one years old.

 

The cards have been dealT, you got dealt a stacked hand and you lost, don't try to play the game again, like I said, you must move forward as quick as the Road Runner.

 

 

 

 

 

[RJRS1301]

I am assuming you had no court enforceable agreement regarding returning your son to the states, 

Not that a Thai court needs to recognise an agreement made in USA

Have you spoken with your wife about visiting and having access to your son?

Without speaking with her how do you know what she wants, and what is intended for your child

 

Are you able to care fulltime for your child. emotionally and financially?

Is your child on her passport, is he recognised as a Thai or US citizen?

 

What ever happens do make the child a "bargaining tool" in any separation

Ask yourself, what is in the BEST INTEREST of the CHILD? Be honest with yourself

 

 

[cabanlit]

Money talks.

 

Just ask her how much she wants to give (sell) him to you.

[BritManToo]

Walk away, send no money, agree to no divorce, find a new woman, have more sons.

The only way you can win her game is by not playing.

[Skallywag]

On 6/26/2019 at 8:16 PM, woogoo said:

The child is currently 1 1/2 years old so is too young to have input where he wants to stay. They aren't abusive to him, that I know of, but he is being treated like a little animal and not being provided with proper education as he was here in the States. They don't use a car seat and let him do many things that would here be considered dangerous and neglectful. He has dual passports but was born in Bangkok.

Interesting - "proper education" at 18 months old? as he was in the USA? Where do you take an 18 month old for a "proper education" in the USA? 

Seems a bit of a troll post to me. 

Obviously, the first thing to do is make sure he is your son with a DNA test before anything else. 

Child custody and visitation schedules will be difficult with parents living on 2 different continents

Good luck to you sir.  

[RJRS1301]

3 minutes ago, Skallywag said:

Interesting - "proper education" at 18 months old? as he was in the USA? Where do you take an 18 month old for a "proper education" in the USA? 

Anyway - seems a bit of a troll post to me.  Good luck sir, best to start with a DNA test before anything else

Early day care while you work??

 

[sead]

My thoughts were same but in the end I understood how much this child would hinder me in my life because I'm single and live elsewhere.  If the kid is being taked cared of by her family, just accept it and go on with your own.  Tell wife that you will give her divorce if she agrees on that you can come visit your child when you can. I would even give her full custody if she agrees for you be able to have contact.  The other way would be to pay someone to retrieve you child and I don't think you want that 

[DJ54]

In reference to education this could relate to future. As most of us parents know everyday we play a part in our children’s lives as teachers from the day their born. Teaching yes teaching... 

 

OP said Udon Thani which may be city proper and not a village. My

3 years living in a village the education system seems it needs improvements. 

[richard_smith237]

Op - First and foremost - Lawyer recommendation: Tilleke & Gibbins (Bangkok)

https://www.tilleke.com/practices/familylaw

 

On the subject: As I understand it,

- Your Ex Wife works in Bangkok and is unable to care for the child the day time.

- The Child is cared for 'up-country' in Udon by the Grandparents.

- You are US based and also unable to care for the child in the day time (due to work commitments?)

 

The primary goal here I image, is the safety and educational needs of your child, which goes way above and beyond your emotional needs as a parent. 

 

- Does the child have access to a quality educational facility? i.e. Kindergarten and international School once he's older?

- A School in the US will offer significantly more than an 'up country' government school.

- Can you afford to pay for your Child's international School fees? (i.e. if the child were to be schooled at an international school in Bangkok). 

 

This is an extremely tricky situation - If you have it in writing from your wife (i.e. email) that she promised to return your child to the states and the trip was temporary you may have grounds to introduce parental kidnapping to a custody case, although Thailand is not party to the Hague convention a court would still look poorly upon such an action. 

 

Is your child in civilized environment? i.e. is he in decent accommodation or a wooden farm hut? etc? Can his full educational needs be met by his Wife's family? etc etc... there are lots of IF's, good and trustworthy lawyers (listed above) will be able to advise you based on actual experience and results. 

 

 

[KhaoYai]

I've had a little experience in this and I can tell you that as long as your wife is considered a decent woman, you have very little chance of gaining custody - the default position in Thailand is that the mother has custody and its up to you to show why she should not have that right.  By the sound of it, you'd have a hard time proving that your wife is anything other than a decent Thai woman with a good job in the city.

 

You may hate the way he's bveing brought up but what you describe is pretty standard in Thailand.  If you walked into a Thai court and said he's going to get a sub standard education and they don't make him wear a seat belt, you'd immediately rub the court up the wrong way.

 

In your position, I would try and get your wife to allow visitation - you could offer his US passport as proof you won't disappear with him. Failing that, you would need to ask the court to grant an access order.

 

As you live in the US, I fully understand how this would be difficult for you but some access is surely better than none.  I'm not going to suggest you walk away as others have done - no decent father could do that. However, see my PM.

[wisperone]

27 minutes ago, KhaoYai said:

In your position, I would try and get your wife to allow visitation - you could offer his US passport as proof you won't disappear with him.

She more than likely already has it.

[balo]

The kid is probably better off with the Thai family in the village. He will grow up to be a normal Thai man, loved by his family. In the U.S he would just end up fat and lazy. Blame it on McD and all that shit food they eat in your country.

 

 

[Rhys]

Sorry mate,  the situation does not look so positive for you, as you will experience a full range of BS from your X.  The wife will use the child as a pawn and you are Foxtroted. 

 

Look into your legal options, accept what you are willing to fork out for fees and frustration.

 

Perhaps, attempt to improve the relationship of what is best for the kid with a dose of humility knowing your ex holds the cards.

 

Be strong mate.

 

Cheers

 

[mike787]

Lesson well learned:    Rent. or lease it, but DO NOT buy it (get married)....NOT worth the cost.   The money you may get back, but not the time and emotional hell you will pay for it.