Photo of drowned migrants triggers fight over Trump asylum clampdown

[stevenl]

9 minutes ago, Thainesss said:

 

You just accused people like me of being complicit in migrant deaths when your very own party mocked Trump calling it a “manufactured crisis” and made a galactic show of cutting funds and hamstringing every effort to confront this issue and NOW you guys have the audacity to allege that the right is at fault...

 

Thats completely bonkers. 

 

Its such joke and the left knows it. That’s why they passed funding to aid the issue almost unanimously and without showboating. 

And he manufactured it and you're falling for it.

[Ozman52]

16 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Please post again after you take the time to educate yourself about the actual specific details of this case and how the metering policy for LEGAL ASYLUM APPLICATIONS directly led to their deaths. No point in any further reply to such a misinformed post. 

Done that. Now how about the specific questions, or does a musteline "You're to ignorant to reply to" suffice.

 

Is it too much to ask where, when and to what extent my responsibility extends? Do you deny countries have the right to limit immigration?

[Jingthing]

2 minutes ago, Ozman52 said:

Done that. Now how about the specific questions, or does a musteline "You're to ignorant to reply to" suffice.

 

Is it too much to ask where, when and to what extent my responsibility extends? Do you deny countries have the right to limit immigration?

I don't believe you. 

Of course countries have that right. 

But the U.S. is supposed to be better than the fascist immigration policies of the current U.S. president. 

So yes sorry I am suggesting that those people that SUPPORT his fascist immigration policies are complicit in the CONSEQUENCES, including these specific deaths. 

[Ozman52]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

I don't believe you. 

Of course countries have that right. 

But the U.S. is supposed to be better than the fascist immigration policies of the current U.S. president. 

So yes sorry I am suggesting that those people that SUPPORT his fascist immigration policies are complicit in the CONSEQUENCES, including these specific deaths. 

Amazing, but still ignoring responsibility issues.  So, we agree countries have the right to limit immigration. When a country sets an annual limit, let's call it metering, is that OK or does that fall under "fascist immigration policies"? 

How about those people who by the free immigration policies encourage people to leave their homes to seek a better life, are they "complicit in the consequences" too, or do bleeding hearts get a free pass?

[stevenl]

2 minutes ago, Ozman52 said:

Amazing, but still ignoring responsibility issues.  So, we agree countries have the right to limit immigration. When a country sets an annual limit, let's call it metering, is that OK or does that fall under "fascist immigration policies"? 

How about those people who by the free immigration policies encourage people to leave their homes to seek a better life, are they "complicit in the consequences" too, or do bleeding hearts get a free pass?

Please give examples of countries with free immigration policies.

[Jingthing]

1 hour ago, Ozman52 said:

Amazing, but still ignoring responsibility issues.  So, we agree countries have the right to limit immigration. When a country sets an annual limit, let's call it metering, is that OK or does that fall under "fascist immigration policies"? 

How about those people who by the free immigration policies encourage people to leave their homes to seek a better life, are they "complicit in the consequences" too, or do bleeding hearts get a free pass?

These deaths had NOTHING to do with annual limits.

You want to discuss international immigration policies in general?

Leave me out of it. 

[Thainesss]

21 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Dude.

These deaths had NOTHING to do with annual limits.

You clearly don't know the details of that case so why playact like you do?
You want to discuss international immigration policies in general? Leave me out of it. 

 

The details of the death were extremely sad and extremely avoidable. A young able bodied man and his child were trying to come to the USA illegally “For a better life”. Not asylum. Simply an economic migrant breaking laws and trying to enter illegally. Sad as hell but to blame it on Trump and Republicans (which is what you’ve been doing for pages and pages now) is nothing more than insults and trolling. 

[stevenl]

7 minutes ago, Thainesss said:

 

The details of the death were extremely sad and extremely avoidable. A young able bodied man and his child were trying to come to the USA illegally “For a better life”. Not asylum. Simply an economic migrant breaking laws and trying to enter illegally. Sad as hell but to blame it on Trump and Republicans (which is what you’ve been doing for pages and pages now) is nothing more than insults and trolling. 

So you don't know the details, and missed their asylum application. Since that would take a months long wait they decided to cross.

[Thainesss]

16 minutes ago, stevenl said:

So you don't know the details, and missed their asylum application. Since that would take a months long wait they decided to cross.

 

First of all, they were trying to “escape poverty” which is not a reason for asylum. They would have been turned away. That’s a fact. You can’t immigrate just because you’re poor. 

 

Secondly, They had an actual humanitarian visa for Mexico, they were in Mexico in a camp and ditched it because they didn’t want to wait any more to APPLY for asylum. 

 

So, they decided to break the law and cross the border illegally. 

 

And they died trying to do so. 

 

ALL of this would be completely avoidable if the the left would stop this insanity and take away the incentives. 

 

Its pathetic and infuriating on so many levels that the left refuses to stop this insanity and will JUMP at the change to stand on their bodies for political gain. 

[Ozman52]

1 hour ago, stevenl said:

Please give examples of countries with free immigration policies.

Doh! I wasn't referring to countries, but those who advocate it on this forum, supporting the right of anybody and everybody to obtain access by claiming refugee status.

[stevenl]

3 minutes ago, Ozman52 said:

Doh! I wasn't referring to countries, but those who advocate it on this forum, supporting the right of anybody and everybody to obtain access by claiming refugee status.

So the right to an asylum application equals a free immigration policy.

 

Sorry, you're far off base here.

[Thainesss]

2 minutes ago, stevenl said:

So the right to an asylum application equals a free immigration policy.

 

Sorry, you're far off base here.

 

It damn well does when the extreme left thinks we have to foot the bill for the care of any person who sneaks across the border. 

 

Close the loophole. If you come across the border illegally, starting from this day forward, you will not be eligible for asylum. You will be deported. 

 

Heres you’re court date. Present at the embassy at this time. Heres a list of some lawyers and advisors. Good luck. 

 

This shit has to stop, and the left REFUSES to stop it. 

 

And we all know why. 

[Chomper Higgot]

1 hour ago, Thainesss said:

 

It damn well does when the extreme left thinks we have to foot the bill for the care of any person who sneaks across the border. 

 

Close the loophole. If you come across the border illegally, starting from this day forward, you will not be eligible for asylum. You will be deported. 

 

Heres you’re court date. Present at the embassy at this time. Heres a list of some lawyers and advisors. Good luck. 

 

This shit has to stop, and the left REFUSES to stop it. 

 

And we all know why. 

"And we all know why." 

 

For those of us that don't please tell us why?

[Thainesss]

15 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

"And we all know why." 

 

For those of us that don't please tell us why?

 

The Democrat party wants to keep a steady flow of immigrants coming in (regardless of the cost and regardless of the problems and regardless of their status) from south of the border to change demographics in their favor. 

 

There can be no denying it anymore. They’ve lost all plausible deniability. 

[Chomper Higgot]

1 minute ago, Thainesss said:

 

The Democrat party wants to keep a steady flow of immigrants coming in (regardless of the cost and regardless of the problems and regardless of their status) from south of the border to change demographics in their favor. 

 

There can be no denying it anymore. They’ve lost all plausible deniability. 

So you have the data on the voting habits of immigrants from South America to back up this?

[Thainesss]

23 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

So you have the data on the voting habits of immigrants from South America to back up this?

 

Are you really gonna try to argue with me about this fact? 

[pedro01]

8 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Incorrect. They decided to cross illegally because of the "trump" disgusting inhumane policy to make them wait two months to have their LEGAL ASYLUM application considered in horrible conditions in massive heat. They wanted to apply legally. Xenophobic demagogue "trump" under the direction of villain Stephen Miller designed this system. "trump" isn't responsible for all aspiring immigrant unnecessary deaths -- but these ones he is and all that support "trump" in this are complicit. This "metering" policy is cynical, evil, and intentional. It's white nationalist and fascist. Americans should be better but right now under our illegitimate president, we aren't. This is a very dark phase in American history. Hopefully we can emerge from it intact.

Wow. I think we have officially reached fever pitch!
 

Lets break it down point by point.

 

1 - You have NO IDEA why they decided to cross illegaly - your view on their decision is 100% supposition based on your jaded political view.

2 - A REAL asylum seeker is fleeing what is usually a dangerous situation, 2 months in warm accommodation might send you for the hills but not someone whose life is in peril

3 - The reality is that they had no basis for an asylum application, so the reality is the more likely explanation is they crossed illegally because they would not be accepted

4 - "Xenophobic demagogue", "white nationalist and fascist"  - absolute unfounded nonsense. In fact, it is completely ludicrous to accuse Trump of being a White Nationalist. 

 

 

 

[Chomper Higgot]

4 minutes ago, Thainesss said:

 

Are you really gonna try to argue with me about this fact? 

Not if you produce the data, no. 

[Scott]

Posts and replies removed.  

 

[pedro01]

11 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Not if you produce the data, no. 

https://www.pewhispanic.org/2016/10/11/latinos-and-the-political-parties/

 

Foreign born latinos - 18% lean Republican, 70% lean Democrat

 

[thaibeachlovers]

On ‎6‎/‎30‎/‎2019 at 1:07 PM, Chomper Higgot said:

There is no such thing under US law as an ‘illegal immigrant’.

 

You seem to know even less about the legal standing of people claiming ‘refugee status’.

 

Having to write "persons subsequently found to have no right to stay in the US and should be deported" takes so much time to write. "Illegal immigrant" is so much easier and we all know what it means.

[Sujo]

13 hours ago, pedro01 said:

Wow. I think we have officially reached fever pitch!
 

Lets break it down point by point.

 

1 - You have NO IDEA why they decided to cross illegaly - your view on their decision is 100% supposition based on your jaded political view.

2 - A REAL asylum seeker is fleeing what is usually a dangerous situation, 2 months in warm accommodation might send you for the hills but not someone whose life is in peril

3 - The reality is that they had no basis for an asylum application, so the reality is the more likely explanation is they crossed illegally because they would not be accepted

4 - "Xenophobic demagogue", "white nationalist and fascist"  - absolute unfounded nonsense. In fact, it is completely ludicrous to accuse Trump of being a White Nationalist. 

 

 

 

1. It has already been reported why they crossed.

2. A real asylum seeker is anyone that claims it.

3. Just because you think they had no claim doesnt make it fact. There had been no determination made.

4. Trump considers himself a white nationalist.

[pedro01]

8 minutes ago, Sujo said:

1. It has already been reported why they crossed.

2. A real asylum seeker is anyone that claims it.

3. Just because you think they had no claim doesnt make it fact. There had been no determination made.

4. Trump considers himself a white nationalist.

 

According to Amnesty International: https://www.amnesty.org.au/refugee-and-an-asylum-seeker-difference/

 

Asylum Seeker: An asylum seeker is an individual who is seeking international protection.

Economic Migrant: An economic migrant is someone who leaves his or her country of origin purely for financial and/or economic reasons. Economic migrants choose to move in order to find a better life and they do not flee because of persecution

 

According to the man's mother: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-immigration-mexico-mother/i-told-him-not-to-go-mother-of-drowned-salvadoran-migrant-laments-idUSKCN1TR2PJ

 

"Oscar and his family left El Salvador in April, hoping to find work in the United States and eventually buy a house,"

 

So....

1 - he crossed because he wanted to work in US and buy a house

2 - he does not fit Amnesty International definition of Alsylum seeker

3 - See point 2

4 - Please provide evidence

[Sujo]

10 minutes ago, pedro01 said:

 

According to Amnesty International: https://www.amnesty.org.au/refugee-and-an-asylum-seeker-difference/

 

Asylum Seeker: An asylum seeker is an individual who is seeking international protection.

Economic Migrant: An economic migrant is someone who leaves his or her country of origin purely for financial and/or economic reasons. Economic migrants choose to move in order to find a better life and they do not flee because of persecution

 

According to the man's mother: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-immigration-mexico-mother/i-told-him-not-to-go-mother-of-drowned-salvadoran-migrant-laments-idUSKCN1TR2PJ

 

"Oscar and his family left El Salvador in April, hoping to find work in the United States and eventually buy a house,"

 

So....

1 - he crossed because he wanted to work in US and buy a house

2 - he does not fit Amnesty International definition of Alsylum seeker

3 - See point 2

4 - Please provide evidence

You dont decide who is and isnt a refugee. There has been no determination.

 

Google trump nationalist

[pedro01]

6 minutes ago, Sujo said:

You dont decide who is and isnt a refugee. There has been no determination.

 

Google trump nationalist

Correct, I don't - that's why I provided the definition from Amnesty.

 

Unlike yourself who seems to think that what you say is sacrosanct unless proven otherwise.

 

just like your claim that Trump is a white nationalist - it's an opinion & you can't back it up. On the other hand, when I claim something to be the case, I back it up - with things you can't and don't even attempt to refute.

 

Fail.

[sukhumvitneon]

Imagine having a "debate" on whether illegal immigrants flooding into your country should be allowed or not

[stevenl]

20 minutes ago, pedro01 said:

Correct, I don't - that's why I provided the definition from Amnesty.

 

Unlike yourself who seems to think that what you say is sacrosanct unless proven otherwise.

 

just like your claim that Trump is a white nationalist - it's an opinion & you can't back it up. On the other hand, when I claim something to be the case, I back it up - with things you can't and don't even attempt to refute.

 

Fail.

True, there are continuous arguments on whether Trump is a white nationalist or white supremacist. Take your pick.

[Sujo]

30 minutes ago, pedro01 said:

Correct, I don't - that's why I provided the definition from Amnesty.

 

Unlike yourself who seems to think that what you say is sacrosanct unless proven otherwise.

 

just like your claim that Trump is a white nationalist - it's an opinion & you can't back it up. On the other hand, when I claim something to be the case, I back it up - with things you can't and don't even attempt to refute.

 

Fail.

Google trump nationalist. Im not here to hold your hand.

 

When did amnesty determine his request for asylum?

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, Sujo said:

2. A real asylum seeker is anyone that claims it.

If that is correct, why are so many deported?

[Sujo]

2 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

If that is correct, why are so many deported?

Because they are then found not to be genuine. Until that is determined they are considered real asylum seekers.